witesoxfan Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 04:34 PM) And Joe Crede and Ventura both had incredibly quick first step reactions....absolutely doesn't mean either one of them had the range or overall athletic ability to play 2B. The same was/is true for Mark Teahen or Gillaspie or Morel. Now, if it's Brett Lawrie, or Brandon Inge, that's a different type of player. I have no idea where this came from. QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 04:36 PM) If the Hahn green lights moving Alexei, I think we see the sox go forward with the experiment. If beckham can be league average to slightly below defensively at SS and he has turned the corner(two big ifs) then we need to lock him up. Also in a league that has Cabrera, Lowrie, Aybar and Peralta at the position, I think Beckham turns out ok. I'm saying I think Beckham will be Michael Young bad at SS. He has good instincts, but he lacks quickness and arm strength. He is ideally suited for 2B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 03:44 PM) I have no idea where this came from. Gillasipe has shown (albeit in a small sample size) great defensive ability at 3B Assuming I agreed with the poster (which I don't), he's still not in the league of Joe Crede or Ventura...so just saying someone is a great 3B, and, with that, having exceptional first step quickness and reaction time (Conor's decent in that area, but not amazing)...that doesn't necessarily make you Manny Machado that could play any infield position well. (or Lawrie, Brandon Inge, etc.) I'm saying I think Beckham will be Michael Young bad at SS. He has good instincts, but he lacks quickness and arm strength. He is ideally suited for 2B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 OK, yeah, I didn't say that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 When Gordon was drafted, Baseball America had this to say about Gordon's defense: While no one questions his ability to hit, scouts are split on whether Beckham has the hands to stay at shortstop. He has the instincts and is athletic with enough range and arm strength to stick at the premium position. At the end of the 2008 season: A good athlete, Beckham has average speed and the arm and instincts to stick at shortstop. His game has drawn comparisons to Michael Young's. He also has strong makeup and says his goal is �to lead the White Sox one day the way Derek Jeter leads the Yankees. The biggest question with Beckham is whether he'll remain at shortstop. Before the draft, scouts were split on his defensive ability, but the White Sox believe he can stay there. His hands aren't the softest, and he'll have to work to get smoother at fielding grounders. During the 2009 season: Most managers felt that Beckham could play shortstop at the major league level, as he has good athleticism, first-step quickness and a solid arm. Others thought he might be a better fit at second or third base partly because of his fringe-average speed, and the White Sox used him solely at the hot corner alongside Alexei Ramirez at short. Overall, it seems the concern was his overall fielding ability, which has proven excellent. Nobody really questioned his athletic tools to be a shortstop, short of that brief comment about his speed (not really relevant?). Those are far from the complete reports, for those worried about copying things behind a paywall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 04:56 PM) OK, yeah, I didn't say that QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 04:56 PM) And Joe Crede and Ventura both had incredibly quick first step reactions....absolutely doesn't mean either one of them had the range or overall athletic ability to play 2B. The same was/is true for Mark Teahen or Gillaspie or Morel. Now, if it's Brett Lawrie, or Brandon Inge, that's a different type of player. Also, Eminor3rd is the best. Yeah you did, look Edited July 12, 2013 by Eminor3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I'd like to see an infield of Gillaspie at 2B, Beckham at SS, and Morel at 3B for the final 50+ games. See if there is anything worthwhile in that alignment for 2014 and beyond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 04:21 PM) That's just a REALLY difficult transition. Juan Uribe, Vizquel...they could go back and forth, Ozuna (just not SS), Eduardo Escobar, etc. But we saw what happened when they tried Teahen there (as well as in KC)....and Morel at SS/2B is the same kind of stretch. You could see Morel POSSIBLY playing 2B. But SS, no way, except as an emergency option. It would be the equivalent of Adam Dunn running the option or wishbone/flexbone for an Arena League football team. Agreed. Beckham will be our 2B for awhile and he should be. He is getting better and better offensively, no need to move him at this point. I understand the anxiety from fans for a reasonable SS replacement for Ramirez, since Hahn will likely deal him, but i'll just assume Hahn will find a prospect to fill that hole for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulstar Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 04:44 PM) I have no idea where this came from. I'm saying I think Beckham will be Michael Young bad at SS. He has good instincts, but he lacks quickness and arm strength. He is ideally suited for 2B. I don't think you can be further from the truth there. Beckham has shown above average quickness and arm strength. I think people on here are comparing him athletically to Alexei and the way he plays SS, and that is just an unrealistic. Ramirez is able to do things at SS many people in the league can't with his quickness and arm strength. However, if Beckham can play average defense at SS (which is not a stretch at all considering many of us on here have seen how well he can play 2B), that is where he is most valuable. With his bat being a question mark and not being a power hitter like many on here hoped he would, I think it absolutely makes sense to give him a chance there. If he fails he fails, but you could be looking at someone who can play average to above average D at SS, make all the routine plays, and hopefully turn into a Michael Young-lite type hitter as long as he doesn't get HR happy. If it wasn't for Alexei, you can bet any amount of money that Beckham would have never moved from SS, at least not until he showed he couldn't play it well enough at the MLB level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulstar Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 04:13 PM) Gillaspie at 2B? REALLY? I have a feeling they keep Beckham at 2B as long as he's hitting this well. He moves to SS, starts making some errors, his confidence is going to fall apart again. If that is truly an issue, than good riddance. This team has too many mental midgets as it is, and if Beckham proved to be that mentally week and unable to handle any failure or adversity and go directly in a tailspin again, he don't belong in the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Jon Heyman of CBS Sports echoes Sullivan's earlier report that the Rangers aren't willing to include Martin Perez in a trade for Garza. The Red Sox are said to be "thinking about" Garza and would be a major threat if they entered the fray, according to Heyman. Boston has many pitching prospects acquired by Theo Epstein during his time as the team's GM. The Diamondbacks are in the mix as well, though they may prefer Jake Peavy. The Cubs are likely to place more emphasis on ceiling than proximity to the Major Leagues, according to Heyman, with a slight preference for pitching as opposed to position players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 09:05 PM) Jon Heyman of CBS Sports echoes Sullivan's earlier report that the Rangers aren't willing to include Martin Perez in a trade for Garza. The Red Sox are said to be "thinking about" Garza and would be a major threat if they entered the fray, according to Heyman. Boston has many pitching prospects acquired by Theo Epstein during his time as the team's GM. The Diamondbacks are in the mix as well, though they may prefer Jake Peavy. The Cubs are likely to place more emphasis on ceiling than proximity to the Major Leagues, according to Heyman, with a slight preference for pitching as opposed to position players. I love hearing that because the DBacks have the position player prospects that the Sox are looking for. And I've said that is the most logical place for Peavy to land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 09:11 PM) I love hearing that because the DBacks have the position player prospects that the Sox are looking for. And I've said that is the most logical place for Peavy to land. Rick has definitely been talking to Towers who is a big fan of Jake and is his former GM in S.D. There's also the Barry Axelrod connection (Jake's former rep.) who now works for the D-Backs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 17, 2013 -> 02:25 AM) Rick has definitely been talking to Towers who is a big fan of Jake and is his former GM in S.D. There's also the Barry Axelrod connection (Jake's former rep.) who now works for the D-Backs. Have you heard of any specific players the Sox might be targeting in a return for guys like Peavy or Rios? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 09:25 PM) Rick has definitely been talking to Towers who is a big fan of Jake and is his former GM in S.D. There's also the Barry Axelrod connection (Jake's former rep.) who now works for the D-Backs. Davidson would be my dream return. Owings is legit. Trahan is interesting too. Lots of good stuff in that system. Edited July 17, 2013 by DirtySox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 09:29 PM) Davidson would be my dream return. Owings is legit. Trahan is interesting too. Lots of good stuff in that system. Bucket, can a package of Peavy and Crain net Davidson, Owings and a 2 others? What you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 09:26 PM) Have you heard of any specific players the Sox might be targeting in a return for guys like Peavy or Rios? I'm working on it. I've got a few names, none of which suprised me. Despite what you've heard, they want 1) High-ceiling low level or 2) Impact, close to league ready Guys I know they've asked for: Pit - Hanson, Polanco Tex - Sardinas, Font Az - Eaton, Holmberg, Owings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 09:38 PM) Bucket, can a package of Peavy and Crain net Davidson, Owings and a 2 others? What you think? Possibly, but both Jake and Crain would have to prove they are truly healthy. Crain is a huge unknown but if he returns to form he's a HUGE chip at the deadline. Az loves Davidson. He'd be a tough pull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 09:29 PM) Davidson would be my dream return. Owings is legit. Trahan is interesting too. Lots of good stuff in that system. Sox still love Holmberg and have reacquired their "guys" before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Thanks for all the info bucket. I'm sure you're putting yourself/a relationship at risk by sharing and we all appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 10:40 PM) Thanks for all the info bucket. I'm sure you're putting yourself/a relationship at risk by sharing and we all appreciate it. Thanks Jake. Only for you guys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 10:30 PM) I'm working on it. I've got a few names, none of which suprised me. Despite what you've heard, they want 1) High-ceiling low level or 2) Impact, close to league ready Guys I know they've asked for: Pit - Hanson, Polanco Tex - Sardinas, Font Az - Eaton, Holmberg, Owings Thanks Bucket. I'd be happy with many of those prospects. Surprised Odor isn't on your Texas list though. I really like him. Nick Williams and Lewis Brinson also very much fit the White Sox "type." Edited July 17, 2013 by DirtySox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Eaton, Holmberg, and Owings for Peavy? Done. Want some De Aza too? Fine, take him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Holmberg got trounced the other night, and my first thought was... I bet that was in front of a lot of scouts. Great first half, and he turns 22 on Friday. I'd love to have him back in the organization. I really hope Quintana or Santiago get traded, because it means they had to include one of them to get a premium offensive player back. If they can replace one of them with Holmberg in a different deal, I'd take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 10:30 PM) I'm working on it. I've got a few names, none of which suprised me. Despite what you've heard, they want 1) High-ceiling low level or 2) Impact, close to league ready Guys I know they've asked for: Pit - Hanson, Polanco Tex - Sardinas, Font Az - Eaton, Holmberg, Owings I love that they are asking for shortstops back in deals. Very intriguing. Thanks bucket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I'm working on it. I've got a few names, none of which suprised me. Despite what you've heard, they want 1) High-ceiling low level or 2) Impact, close to league ready Guys I know they've asked for: Pit - Hanson, Polanco Tex - Sardinas, Font Az - Eaton, Holmberg, Owings If the Sox got Owings, he'd probably be the best hitter on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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