CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 05:46 AM) Brian Anderson and Chris Young were athletic, toolsy outfielders who didn't live up to their potential once they got to the bigs. I still don't get it though ? Does anybody want outfielders to be slow fat with no arms ? OK thats extreme how about 5'10- 6-1 and 175-210 lbs ? With avg speed ? I mean you have to have outfielders in the minors right ? Isn't the requirement of the position mean you should be toolsy ? Should be fast ? Should be athletic ? What is Trout , McCutheon ,Ken Griffey Jr , Mays, Mantle, Aaron if not toolsy ? Everyone sees Hahn say he's got 5 tools and thats all of a sudden a bad thing ? That makes him a non baseball player ? Face it K's in baseball are rising and already at an all time high . What about all the other outfielders the Sox had around that never made it are they any different ? A bust is a bust is a bust. Extra speed and a plus arm doesn't mean you're going to bust ,same as avg speed and baseball savvy. But if some one's going to be a superstar I'll take my chances with a big strong athletic guy any day of the year . Edited July 31, 2013 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 04:15 PM) I think that when trading for prospects, people overvalue quality instead of quantity. You can have one prospect who is a 75% chance to be an impact player in the majors. If you get four prospects who have 50%, 30%, 20%, and 10% chances to be impact players in the majors, there's also a 75% chance that at least one of them will be, plus the 15% or so chance that more than one of them will be. I completely disagree. I'd take one top 75 prospect over 4 200-300 prospects any day of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 05:20 PM) I think the Sox got fair vallit, the Tigers didn't. But when you are in win-now mode, value isn't always of utmost importance. Yeah, I agree but my point is the Tigers being inept here opened the door for the Sox to do at least a little better. I don't think the Red Sox were going to back on not getting Peavy if we really pushed for another 10-15 guy in their system. They still would come out far ahead of anyone. Edited July 31, 2013 by Buehrle>Wood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_Thomas Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 11:28 AM) Yeah, I agree but my point is the Tigers being inept here opened the door for the Sox to do at least a little better. I don't think the Red Sox were going to back on not getting Peavy if we really pushed for another 10-15 guy in their system. They still would come out far ahead of anyone. Knobler just tweeted one AL East scout said Detroit made the best deal of the deadline so far getting Iglesias. Take that for what it's worth but I doubt Detroit is upset about filling a dire need with a 23-year old elite defender who still has time to develope the bat. Also whether he is slumping or not, he is hitting over .300 in the bigs this year. I feel like this is a win-win-win without knowing what happens in the future with the pieces involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 11:17 AM) Yep. Hard for someone to disagree with the this. The Tigers or Sox needed to push for more since the Red Sox got away with a straight fleecing. The Red Sox pay the money. How is it a fleecing when they take on the dollar figure going to a 32-yr old with injury history? Each side has a certain amount of risk and things they turned down in order to do this deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 11:32 AM) Knobler just tweeted one AL East scout said Detroit made the best deal of the deadline so far getting Iglesias. Take that for what it's worth but I doubt Detroit is upset about filling a dire need with a 23-year old elite defender who still has time to develope the bat. Also whether he is slumping or not, he is hitting over .300 in the bigs this year. I feel like this is a win-win-win without knowing what happens in the future with the pieces involved. The Tigers don't need much offense out of the SS position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 11:28 AM) Yeah, I agree but my point is the Tigers being inept here opened the door for the Sox to do at least a little better. I don't think the Red Sox were going to back on not getting Peavy if we really pushed for another 10-15 guy in their system. They still would come out far ahead of anyone. If the price was 2 very good near-ready prospects, who's to say Boston doesnt just go for another team's starting pitcher? Instead of Peavy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 05:42 PM) If the price was 2 very good near-ready prospects, who's to say Boston doesnt just go for another team's starting pitcher? Instead of Peavy? Well, not many existed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 05:40 PM) The Red Sox pay the money. How is it a fleecing when they take on the dollar figure going to a 32-yr old with injury history? Each side has a certain amount of risk and things they turned down in order to do this deal Because no one in their right mind considers Peavy's contract a bad one. And they took it on by giving up a guy with a career .622 OPS...in the minors and nothing else of value. Really great deal for them. It's going to very tough for someone to top what they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_Thomas Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 11:40 AM) The Tigers don't need much offense out of the SS position. That was my point, Detroit added exactly the type of impact player they need to add at the deadline. Igelisas makes and impact with his glove and that's what the Tigers lack up the middle. They are very happy with this move. Ii was just simply pointing out for everyone who is saying that Igelsisas blows he is only 23 and playing in the bigs, hitting over .300. As long as he brings his glove everyday Detroit is more than happy to play him everyday at short whether his bat develops or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 No one considers it a bad one, but in mid-season there aren't many clubs that have budgeted for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Baseball America made the perfect comparison for Iglesias - Rey Ordonez. Rey was a f***ing amazing fielder, but just an abysmal hitter with no silver lining at the plate. While he has some of the best UZR numbers I've ever seen, he only exceeded 1.1 WAR once in his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 11:28 AM) Yeah, I agree but my point is the Tigers being inept here opened the door for the Sox to do at least a little better. I don't think the Red Sox were going to back on not getting Peavy if we really pushed for another 10-15 guy in their system. They still would come out far ahead of anyone. You don't know that though. Hahn may have asked for more, and the Red Sox may have scoffed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 07:23 AM) Was hoping Hahn could do a little better in his first big deal as a GM. The Sox pick up another "toolsy" OF to go with the masses they have been stockpiling. This one appears to actually have a shot at the majors since he has had a little success, but the jury is still out. The biggest holes in the system are at the IF corners, and this deal does nothing to address that. Instead of chasing down a ML ready bat, he should have taken a few players that were further away. We will need to see what he is able to do with his other chips, as Garcia seems like he could be ready to step in if Hahn is able to deal Rios. The other pieces the Sox picked up look like bullpen guys and a UT infielder. The other problem is that it made two teams that you are trying to catch better. The Tigers have their SS of the foreseeable future with Iglesias who is cost controlled and elite defensively. Hitting .330 this season shows he can hit at least enough to stay in the lineup. We will see what else Hahn is able to do, but in a vacuum, I feel he should have done better. This is the kind of analysis you see most and it makes no mention of $20,000,0000.00 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Hate to say it but I told you all Boston wouldn't give up the spects. I mentioned 2 names they were willing to give up , Iglesias and Middlebrooks and they gave up Iglesias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 04:44 PM) Because no one in their right mind considers Peavy's contract a bad one. And they took it on by giving up a guy with a career .622 OPS...in the minors and nothing else of value. Really great deal for them. It's going to very tough for someone to top what they did. Except in every rumor made Peavy's contract showed up as an obstacle. While I'm sure many teams would have paid Peavy $15 mil on a 1 yr deal next season, those may not have been contending teams in 2013, but they would have been teams that also knew what their budget would be for the next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 11:44 AM) Because no one in their right mind considers Peavy's contract a bad one. And they took it on by giving up a guy with a career .622 OPS...in the minors and nothing else of value. Really great deal for them. It's going to very tough for someone to top what they did. But taking on Peavy's contract means you aren't spending on a different pitcher, so he IS taking the place of something. We just dont know what their other options were, exactly. As far as the guy they got, there was one gem in the last six starts... several fail starts... and a rib fracture in the middle of that. Agreed Iglesias was replaceable, but it's not like it's this unbelievably rosy picture when spending that $20M means they wont spend it on something else. When you're the Red Sox you can spend $20M and get the best of the best. It's not like they're some mediocre destination when it comes time for players to take their offer. How bottomless the well is, as far as BOS payroll, remains to be seen but last year's transaction with the Dodgers shows it isnt totally bottomless Edited July 31, 2013 by Jose Paniagua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 05:56 PM) Hate to say it but I told you all Boston wouldn't give up the spects. I mentioned 2 names they were willing to give up , Iglesias and Middlebrooks and they gave up Iglesias. Yeah we all laughed at those "idiot" Red Sox fans earlier in this thread but they ended being correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Wow! 250+ pages on this subject. "Other " sites don't even dent that. Good job Sox Talk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 06:00 PM) Wow! 250+ pages on this subject. "Other " sites don't even dent that. Good job Sox Talk! Well, it did stem from a 200 pg. thread to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 11:51 AM) Baseball America made the perfect comparison for Iglesias - Rey Ordonez. Rey was a f***ing amazing fielder, but just an abysmal hitter with no silver lining at the plate. While he has some of the best UZR numbers I've ever seen, he only exceeded 1.1 WAR once in his career. I just made that comparison too. Also Cesar Izturis. Jose Iglesias is not a good offensive player, and he is not going to hit .330 all year. He's not going to hit .300. He's probably not going to hit .270. If he's above .250 by the end of the year, Detroit will be lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 11:21 AM) Hahn isn't business to help out Boston. If there were better packages out there, we would've taken them. I doubt anyone would prefer a Michael Choice or David Holmberg centered package. he also doesn't need to worry about screwing Boston as a part of a deal. Hahn got what he wanted, and that is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 11:40 AM) The Red Sox pay the money. How is it a fleecing when they take on the dollar figure going to a 32-yr old with injury history? Each side has a certain amount of risk and things they turned down in order to do this deal The thing is with the Red Sox luck in getting expensive pitching from other teams, Peavy will probably trip getting off of the plan and tear his shoulder and ACL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 11:52 AM) You don't know that though. Hahn may have asked for more, and the Red Sox may have scoffed. We know he asked for a s***ton. It has been reported he asked for half of their top guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 12:10 PM) he also doesn't need to worry about screwing Boston as a part of a deal. Hahn got what he wanted, and that is fine. If you are worried about a team giving up more value than they receive, it's Detroit you worry about. I'd say the Sox did fine in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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