Balta1701 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 10:08 AM) But Cherington clearing out Crawford, Adrian Gonzalez and Beckett went 50% of the way to his winning the award THIS YEAR. For the AL, Friedman, Beane and Antonetti are the other options for that award, with some probably giving it to Cashman, just, because...well, he has to deal with A-Rod. If Avisail Garcia turns into Miguel Cabrera with the bat, which frankly he has a shot to do...then Hahn will win executive of the year pretty quick. He won't get it by moving any contract on our roster, we weren't in that bad of shape before moving Peavy, we're in great shape now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I have to think our plan for the next offseason is to buy low on some vets that don't go to the top buyers on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I was actually a little annoyed this morning listening to the radio analysis of the Peavy deal. Of course the 3 spects we got are "lower" spects yet if the Cubs got those 3 they would be the greatest man I know better but still annoys me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 09:11 AM) If Avisail Garcia turns into Miguel Cabrera with the bat, which frankly he has a shot to do...then Hahn will win executive of the year pretty quick. He won't get it by moving any contract on our roster, we weren't in that bad of shape before moving Peavy, we're in great shape now. The shot Garcia has of turning into Miguel Cabrera with the bat isn't much bigger than that of someone winning the Powerball with record jackpots twice. C'mon man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 10:11 AM) If Avisail Garcia turns into Miguel Cabrera with the bat, which frankly he has a shot to do...then Hahn will win executive of the year pretty quick. He won't get it by moving any contract on our roster, we weren't in that bad of shape before moving Peavy, we're in great shape now. I started to say "you're smoking that s***" but I looked at Cabrera's milb numbers and they were nothing special until he tore up AAA. Granted, haven't checked out the peripherals or anything but still. Not that I think this will actually happen. That's like saying J immy Butler will turn into Kobe Bryant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 10:13 AM) I have to think our plan for the next offseason is to buy low on some vets that don't go to the top buyers on the market. I dunno honestly...we obviously need a couple of bullpen veterans out there since it's a young pen, I'll certainly say that, but as of now we at least have someone who pencils in at every lineup position until another trade is made. Garcia, De Aza, Rios, Gillaspie/Keppinger, Ramirez, Beckham, Viciedo, Dunn, Phegley, full starting rotation. You can quibble with whether they're ready to ditch someone like Viciedo and they could certainly grab a couple of guys to turn into platooners or improve the bench, but until another player is moved, the Sox don't have obvious room for a lot of "Buy low" guys. They definitely need some bench help though, I guess that's where they could go, but there isn't an obvious starting spot right now for anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 10:16 AM) I started to say "you're smoking that s***" but I looked at Cabrera's milb numbers and they were nothing special until he tore up AAA. Granted, haven't checked out the peripherals or anything but still. People were comparing him to MCab the moment he came up. The odds of him ever reaching that level are obviously quite low, but I think I heard that comparison in his first game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoGoSox2k2 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 09:00 AM) Rios had his bags packed monday essentially so if his foot checks out I would be shocked if he wasnt gone. Heard no chatter on Reed, Dunn and De Aza whatsoever really hope your spot on here Rock. Is Pitt the only team your hearing involved or are there other teams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 08:26 AM) Jacobs isn't a better prospect than Garcia. But he specifically said Jacobs is the best thing the Red Sox gave up, and Garcia wasnt something the Red Sox gave up Edited July 31, 2013 by Jose Paniagua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I guess Rondon is ok with the trade. Already updated his twitter background. https://twitter.com/CleuluisRondon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 09:17 AM) People were comparing him to MCab the moment he came up. The odds of him ever reaching that level are obviously quite low, but I think I heard that comparison in his first game. They were comparing them because they played for the same team and look alike. When Cabrera was Garcia's age, he had about 70 homers in the major leagues and was already dominating. He may turn out to be a great hitter, but in no way shape or form should anyone expect him to be anywhere near Miguel Cabrera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 If they could find the Josh Willingham CF (2012 version for MINNY) "buy low" candidate, that would be great. It's not Choo or Ellsbury, that's for sure. And how low Granderson's demands go, we'll just have to wait and see. They'll definitely give Viciedo at least one more year. They gave Gordon Beckham four plus years, after all. He's the player they have the most invested in, as well...along with Sale and Hawkins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 09:17 AM) People were comparing him to MCab the moment he came up. The odds of him ever reaching that level are obviously quite low, but I think I heard that comparison in his first game. Well, that had much more to do with his physical appearance than anything. He's a dead ringer from 20 feet away. Avisail has so little experience above A+, I have to think it wouldn't be the worst thing if we kept him in AAA for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Was hoping Hahn could do a little better in his first big deal as a GM. The Sox pick up another "toolsy" OF to go with the masses they have been stockpiling. This one appears to actually have a shot at the majors since he has had a little success, but the jury is still out. The biggest holes in the system are at the IF corners, and this deal does nothing to address that. Instead of chasing down a ML ready bat, he should have taken a few players that were further away. We will need to see what he is able to do with his other chips, as Garcia seems like he could be ready to step in if Hahn is able to deal Rios. The other pieces the Sox picked up look like bullpen guys and a UT infielder. The other problem is that it made two teams that you are trying to catch better. The Tigers have their SS of the foreseeable future with Iglesias who is cost controlled and elite defensively. Hitting .330 this season shows he can hit at least enough to stay in the lineup. We will see what else Hahn is able to do, but in a vacuum, I feel he should have done better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 08:18 AM) But he specifically said Jacobs is the best thing the Red Sox gave up, and Garcia wasnt something the Red Sox gave up Technically he was traded from the Tigers to the Red Sox for their young SS, then flipped to us along with their own 3 prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 10:22 AM) If they could find the Josh Willingham CF (2012 version for MINNY) "buy low" candidate, that would be great. It's not Choo or Ellsbury, that's for sure. And how low Granderson's demands go, we'll just have to wait and see. They'll definitely give Viciedo at least one more year. They gave Gordon Beckham four plus years, after all. He's the player they have the most invested in, as well...along with Sale and Hawkins. The other thing to think about though is a guy's attitude. They gave Beckham years but they also were dealing with him every day, they knew him a lot better than us. They may well be done with Viciedo for all I know. He's definitely gone backwards with the glove this year and I'd bet part of that is coaching and part of that is focus. Of course, Viciedo has looked a lot better for the last week or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 08:23 AM) Was hoping Hahn could do a little better in his first big deal as a GM. The Sox pick up another "toolsy" OF to go with the masses they have been stockpiling. This one appears to actually have a shot at the majors since he has had a little success, but the jury is still out. The biggest holes in the system are at the IF corners, and this deal does nothing to address that. Instead of chasing down a ML ready bat, he should have taken a few players that were further away. We will need to see what he is able to do with his other chips, as Garcia seems like he could be ready to step in if Hahn is able to deal Rios. The other pieces the Sox picked up look like bullpen guys and a UT infielder. The other problem is that it made two teams that you are trying to catch better. The Tigers have their SS of the foreseeable future with Iglesias who is cost controlled and elite defensively. Hitting .330 this season shows he can hit at least enough to stay in the lineup. We will see what else Hahn is able to do, but in a vacuum, I feel he should have done better. The only other option if they keep Rios (hoping they don't) is to shift Viciedo to 1B and go with Garcia in LF or CF....depending on what they do with DeAza or in the offseason. Viciedo would have to put up at least a 775-825 OPS to hold 1B as a full-time player, though. His possible defensive shortcomings on the infield are well-chronicled, as well as his lack of height. Edited July 31, 2013 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 09:23 AM) Was hoping Hahn could do a little better in his first big deal as a GM. The Sox pick up another "toolsy" OF to go with the masses they have been stockpiling. This one appears to actually have a shot at the majors since he has had a little success, but the jury is still out. The biggest holes in the system are at the IF corners, and this deal does nothing to address that. Instead of chasing down a ML ready bat, he should have taken a few players that were further away. We will need to see what he is able to do with his other chips, as Garcia seems like he could be ready to step in if Hahn is able to deal Rios. The other pieces the Sox picked up look like bullpen guys and a UT infielder. The other problem is that it made two teams that you are trying to catch better. The Tigers have their SS of the foreseeable future with Iglesias who is cost controlled and elite defensively. Hitting .330 this season shows he can hit at least enough to stay in the lineup. We will see what else Hahn is able to do, but in a vacuum, I feel he should have done better. But they potentially gave up their RF of the future? Maybe it makes them better this year, but in the future they may wish they still had Garcia instead of Julio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 10:27 AM) But they potentially gave up their RF of the future? Maybe it makes them better this year, but in the future they may wish they still had Garcia instead of Julio. They're trying to win this year and they probably comforted themselves with the idea that Castellanos is playing corner OF right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I'd rather keep going after "toolsy" outfielders than those "real baseball players" like Erstad, Kotsay and Reed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 09:17 AM) People were comparing him to MCab the moment he came up. The odds of him ever reaching that level are obviously quite low, but I think I heard that comparison in his first game. Miguel Cabrera - 20 - AA - .365/.429/.609/1.038, 10.2% BB%, 16.2% K% in 303 PAs Avisail Garcia - 21 - A+/AA - .299/.333/.455/.789, 3.5% BB%, 18.5% K% in 513 PAs Even you can see how ridiculous that comparison is. The reason people compared them is because they look a hell of a lot alike. Both are 6'4'' and listed at 240 (Cabrera is a bit bigger than that now), both are Venezuelan, and both played for the Tigers. Their numbers are nothing alike. I'm hopeful he'll prove me wrong, but I have very, very strong doubts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 09:23 AM) Was hoping Hahn could do a little better in his first big deal as a GM. The Sox pick up another "toolsy" OF to go with the masses they have been stockpiling. This one appears to actually have a shot at the majors since he has had a little success, but the jury is still out. The biggest holes in the system are at the IF corners, and this deal does nothing to address that. Instead of chasing down a ML ready bat, he should have taken a few players that were further away. We will need to see what he is able to do with his other chips, as Garcia seems like he could be ready to step in if Hahn is able to deal Rios. The other pieces the Sox picked up look like bullpen guys and a UT infielder. The other problem is that it made two teams that you are trying to catch better. The Tigers have their SS of the foreseeable future with Iglesias who is cost controlled and elite defensively. Hitting .330 this season shows he can hit at least enough to stay in the lineup. We will see what else Hahn is able to do, but in a vacuum, I feel he should have done better. Iglesias is s***. He was hitting .202 in the minors prior to being called up and going on a BABIP binge. His career minor league OPS is .622. At his best, he's going to be Rey Ordonez or Cesar Izturis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 08:23 AM) The other thing to think about though is a guy's attitude. They gave Beckham years but they also were dealing with him every day, they knew him a lot better than us. They may well be done with Viciedo for all I know. He's definitely gone backwards with the glove this year and I'd bet part of that is coaching and part of that is focus. Of course, Viciedo has looked a lot better for the last week or two. I'd like to see him for one year playing full-time with Garcia and without DeAza, Alexei and Rios around...where he would be forced into more of a leadership role and couldn't be content to sit there in the 7th spot in the line-up. Maybe he would respond, maybe he wouldn't. As far as attitude goes, we've heard plenty of negative comments about Gordon's "stubbornness" and overthinking (like Konerko and Quentin) and off field activities...and we know how well Ozzie and Gordon got along. That said, only those guys like Hahn and KW who made the initial call on Dayan can decide when/if it's time to pull the plug. One would hope with a new spring training/reboot/refresh that the seemingly team-wide defensive issues might disappear...which is logical as trying to puzzle out why they started happening like a pandemic this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 09:28 AM) They're trying to win this year and they probably comforted themselves with the idea that Castellanos is playing corner OF right now. I know, but I was just commeting on the criticism that they Sox made a competitor better. Who cares about this year and seeing Iglsesias at SS the rest of the decade doesn't scare me. They gave up a potentially good young hitter too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I'm not sure why anyone would want to build around Beckham and dump Viciedo. Viciedo has been a better player and has a much higher upside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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