The Ginger Kid Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Sale and Hoffman. Now that would be a sweet 1-2 for some years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2013 -> 06:18 PM) With the new CBA, there is something to be said for a slight overdraft which gives you saves you draft cap room. I don't know if you think about such things with the 3rd pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Dec 21, 2013 -> 03:49 AM) I'm still hoping for Hoffman. Wasn't Tim Anderson pretty much the equivalent to Turner last year? Not that Anderson is bad, but last time we took a pitcher in the 1st RD, it worked out okay. I love the idea of Sale-Quintana-Hoffman-Johnson in 2016. Anderson vs Turner Speed - we'll say it's a scratch. Turner is a much more prodigious base stealing threat though due to his skill at the moment. I can't find any times for Anderson, but Turner has been clocked at 3.5 to first and a legit 6.3 60 yard dash. Turner is easily an 80-grade speed, where there is some debate about whether that is true of Anderson. Defense - serious questions existed and still do about Anderson's ability to stick at SS. Needs lots of development before we'll know. Turner is close to a lock to be a SS and many predict he'll be a top tier glove there. Has all the physical tools and actions to project very well there. If he slows down, has the frame and hands to be a 3B. Bat - Turner is a rather polished bat who makes consistent contact and has produced in a huge way at the top amateur level. They both have similar power potential, which is rather modest. Would be surprised if either develop into more than 20 HR players at any level, with 10-15 being more likely for each. Turner is closer to his power ceiling. Anderson has many more problems making contact and it is unclear if Anderson will take many walks as he moves up. Turner's patience at the plate is much more well-regarded ATM. Turner's swing mechanics are very good and most scouts don't believe he has mechanical problems that can be exploited at higher levels. Anderson is far more raw as he had just become a full time baseball player. Before Turner's high ankle sprain which "hampered" his spring production, Kiley McDaniel said he would honestly pick him first overall in the draft. He has more recently demoted him to the 3-spot in the class. His hampered sophomore year production included a 1.000 OPS, still-great defense, and a reduction in steals down to 30. I would expect Turner to break out big time in this coming season and he will be a relatively low-risk proposition. While Tim Anderson doesn't have the same ceiling as Turner, it isn't impossible that Anderson becomes a better player or otherwise very good player. Anderson just has a lot more development ahead of him as well as question marks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Also, I'm not on the Jeff Hoffman bandwagon. Great stuff, strangely meh production. 6.8 K/9, 3.2 BB/9, and 1.26 WHIP in an iffy Conference USA doesn't impress me very much. That is not very Chris Sale-like. Sale had a 10.5 K/9, 2.7 BB/9, and 1.2 WHIP in sophomore season. Followed that with 12 K/9, 1.2 BB/9, and .9 WHIP in his draft season with better stuff than Hoffman. Why would I draft Hoffman at 2? I need to see more promise in his college season before he's even on my radar there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I see Hoffman being nothing more than a solid number 3 starter in the bigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Nothing wrong with Hoffman but I'm thinking I still prefer Kolek as far as pitchers go. Assuming Rodon is already off the board when the 3rd pick comes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 22, 2013 -> 11:34 PM) Anderson vs Turner Speed - we'll say it's a scratch. Turner is a much more prodigious base stealing threat though due to his skill at the moment. I can't find any times for Anderson, but Turner has been clocked at 3.5 to first and a legit 6.3 60 yard dash. Turner is easily an 80-grade speed, where there is some debate about whether that is true of Anderson. Defense - serious questions existed and still do about Anderson's ability to stick at SS. Needs lots of development before we'll know. Turner is close to a lock to be a SS and many predict he'll be a top tier glove there. Has all the physical tools and actions to project very well there. If he slows down, has the frame and hands to be a 3B. Bat - Turner is a rather polished bat who makes consistent contact and has produced in a huge way at the top amateur level. They both have similar power potential, which is rather modest. Would be surprised if either develop into more than 20 HR players at any level, with 10-15 being more likely for each. Turner is closer to his power ceiling. Anderson has many more problems making contact and it is unclear if Anderson will take many walks as he moves up. Turner's patience at the plate is much more well-regarded ATM. Turner's swing mechanics are very good and most scouts don't believe he has mechanical problems that can be exploited at higher levels. Anderson is far more raw as he had just become a full time baseball player. Before Turner's high ankle sprain which "hampered" his spring production, Kiley McDaniel said he would honestly pick him first overall in the draft. He has more recently demoted him to the 3-spot in the class. His hampered sophomore year production included a 1.000 OPS, still-great defense, and a reduction in steals down to 30. I would expect Turner to break out big time in this coming season and he will be a relatively low-risk proposition. While Tim Anderson doesn't have the same ceiling as Turner, it isn't impossible that Anderson becomes a better player or otherwise very good player. Anderson just has a lot more development ahead of him as well as question marks. I didn't mean they were the same talent wise, I just meant that they both provided the same skill set. I guess Turner has the defense that Anderson lacks. I'd still rather take Hoffman, although there are about 4-6 guys that I wouldn't be upset about taking, assuming Rodon goes before we pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Check this out: http://mlbdraftinsider.com/2013/12/2014-draftbook-preview/ Draft prospect preview book for $1.99. I just ordered one, I'll let you know if it's good. But I imagine it won't be hard to be worth two bucks, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Ok, so turns out that book comes to your email via PDF. Cool stuff, here's the write-up on Trea Turner (assuming the guy won't be angry at me for posting a "teaser"): Trea Turner School N.C. State Height/Weight 6-1 / 170 D.O.B. 06-30-1993 Bats/Throws R/R Position SS Scouting Report Hit/On-base – Turner’s swing stays in the path with above-average bat speed, and he has shown a willingness to take pitches and work counts over his first two years for North Carolina State. He doesn’t strike out much and has shown an advanced understanding of pitch recognition. Power – Turner is much more of a gap-to-gap hitter, though he does have enough strength to occasionally put the ball over the wall. Double digit homers isn’t out of the question, but his swing and frame isn’t conducive to bringing totals much higher than that. Glove – After spending his freshman year at third base for the Wolfpack, Turner was just find at shortstop last year, using his athleticism to make plays to his left and right and showing above-average hands. The arm strength is above-average, too, so you will occasionally see the spectacular out of Turner. Speed – There may be guys with more speed in this draft than Turner, but there’s not many. Turner is a burner (excuse the rhyme) on the bases, and is the type of guy that could steal 50+ bases if given the opportunity. Grades Attribute Rating Potential Hit 40 55 Power 40 45+ Speed 80 80 Glove 55 55 Arm 55 55 Analysis: Shortstops who have shown a propensity for getting on base and appear to be “locks “ to stick at the position with true 80 speed don’t come around very often, and that is why Turner will come off the board early next June, but I do question the upside somewhat. You’re getting a major-leaguer if you take him, but there may not be enough reward to justify taking him in the first half of the first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Trea "Burner" Turner does not sound like a #3 overall pick to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jan 2, 2014 -> 02:33 PM) Trea "Burner" Turner does not sound like a #3 overall pick to me. Yeah, after reading his and then Hoffman's profile, Hoffman sounds like a much better choice. Especially considering our system's much better track record for developing pitchers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Seems like he's a guy you expect to hit .270/.340/.410 with the upside to be around .300/.380/.470 or downside around .250/.300/.350. That's still a really good player, but take the best player available, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 With the Sox, you take a pitcher. You can always flip excess pitching for bats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 2, 2014 -> 04:03 PM) That's still a really good player, but take the best player available, period. Can we please stop trying to end all conversations with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jan 2, 2014 -> 06:45 PM) Can we please stop trying to end all conversations with this? As soon as you can tell us with 100% confidence who it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 2, 2014 -> 06:49 PM) As soon as you can tell us with 100% confidence who it is. Exactly. So lets all talk about players the Sox may take, or guys we want the Sox to take and stop saying, "Take the best player, period." That's basically telling everyone to shut up and stop worrying about it until draft day and the #3 pick is on the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jan 2, 2014 -> 05:55 PM) Exactly. So lets all talk about players the Sox may take, or guys we want the Sox to take and stop saying, "Take the best player, period." That's basically telling everyone to shut up and stop worrying about it until draft day and the #3 pick is on the clock. I think you are way overanalyzing here, and you're off-target. Pretty sure wite was alluding to people saying the Sox should take a pitcher, or any other specific position, and repeating that they should take the best player regardless of position. I'm fairly certain he wasn't trying to get people to "shut up". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 08:08 AM) I think you are way overanalyzing here, and you're off-target. Pretty sure wite was alluding to people saying the Sox should take a pitcher, or any other specific position, and repeating that they should take the best player regardless of position. I'm fairly certain he wasn't trying to get people to "shut up". Yep, pretty much this. I gave my pessimistic/realistic/optimistic projections of Trea Turner. Frankly, it is a similar scouting report to both Manny Machado and Christian Colon (the name alliteration is entirely coincidental). If the Sox think Turner is that guy, then they should take him, but Beckham is fresh in the memory of Sox fans (not even mentioning Mitchell, Walker (though not a 1st rounder, he was the first pick), Hawkins, and Anderson) while Sale was the last pitcher they drafted and he has turned out to be incredible. Of course, the last pitcher the Sox drafted in the first round before Sale was Poreda, so who knows if they know what they're actually doing there and in the developmental portion of the minors. Bottom line, they should draft the best player available. I have no idea who that is and the discussion is incredibly entertaining. Edited January 3, 2014 by witesoxfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 08:41 AM) Yep, pretty much this. I gave my pessimistic/realistic/optimistic projections of Trea Turner. Frankly, it is a similar scouting report to both Manny Machado and Christian Colon (the name alliteration is entirely coincidental). If the Sox think Turner is that guy, then they should take him, but Beckham is fresh in the memory of Sox fans (not even mentioning Mitchell, Walker (though not a 1st rounder, he was the first pick), Hawkins, and Anderson) while Sale was the last pitcher they drafted and he has turned out to be incredible. Of course, the last pitcher the Sox drafted in the first round before Sale was Poreda, so who knows if they know what they're actually doing there and in the developmental portion of the minors. Bottom line, they should draft the best player available. I have no idea who that is and the discussion is incredibly entertaining. Back to the idea that they can turn pitchers into needed players... Poreda was a part of turning into Peavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 08:41 AM) Of course, the last pitcher the Sox drafted in the first round before Sale was Poreda, so who knows if they know what they're actually doing there and in the developmental portion of the minors. Scouting staff was still a bit different back then. I believe the whole "agenda" of change from their usual philosophy was the draft two years later with the Mitchell selection (although some would argue which the top 10 pick, Beckham selection a year before) not to mention the hiring of some new scouts/firing of a few/switching locations of other scouts/etc. In fact, the scout who recommended Poreda was technically "demoted" from scouting more of the Eastern states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I'm not saying I think their philosophy or scouting is wrong, just that it still hasn't produced results. Frankly, I haven't given up on any of those draft picks either, not even Mitchell or Walker yet. I don't think the outlook is good, but Mitchell was a different person in Arizona and perhaps he figured something out down there. Also, Clayton Richard seemed to be the big piece that went to San Diego in that trade (other than salary relief). Poreda and Russell were expected to be relievers at best, while Carter was a low level prospect who bombed. Pretty similar, in fact, to the first Roberto Alomar trade 10+ years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 09:21 AM) I'm not saying I think their philosophy or scouting is wrong, just that it still hasn't produced results. Frankly, I haven't given up on any of those draft picks either, not even Mitchell or Walker yet. I don't think the outlook is good, but Mitchell was a different person in Arizona and perhaps he figured something out down there. Also, Clayton Richard seemed to be the big piece that went to San Diego in that trade (other than salary relief). Poreda and Russell were expected to be relievers at best, while Carter was a low level prospect who bombed. Pretty similar, in fact, to the first Roberto Alomar trade 10+ years ago. The theme is pitcher, pitcher, pitcher, and pitcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 09:23 AM) The theme is pitcher, pitcher, pitcher, and pitcher. I think the theme with that trade was actually money. They traded 4 guys who were essentially Joe Blows and took on a boat load of salary. San Diego wanted to rid themselves of that. Also, while it's true that they do mostly trade pitching, some of that has to do with the fact that they haven't been able to develop offensive players, which is an indictment on the organization. Teams don't want prospects who look like they're going to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I know we have 4 months to the draft but I am hoping that the Sox can draft these players over the course of the draft with their picks: First Round: Jacob Gatewood 3B/Tyler Kolek P/Alex Jackson OF-C Rounds 2-40" Kel Johnson OF Zach Shannon OF Kodi Medeiros P Jakson Reetz C J.J. Schwarz C Carson Sands P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Give me Kolek. A 6'5" 250lb flame thrower with a plus slider and decent curve at only 18 years old sounds great to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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