2014 Draft class

[CyAcosta41]

The best case scenario for the White Sox if Rodon wants 1-1 money is him going 1-1 to Houston. That guarantees the Sox either Aiken or Kolek.

 

My feeling, exactly.

 

I think the wise Rick Hahn is talking up Rodon at every opportunity precisely because he wants nothing to do with him. And, more accurately, nothing to do with the Scott Boras Freak Show.

 

For those that say the new rules diminish the Boras-factor -- could not disagree more. If Rodon was in a class of his own, with no warts (and I don't think either of these things are NOW true), and you had the opportunity to draft Rodon at 1-3, then you do it and deal with Boras the best you can. But, there are other options. Good options. Hahn is an attorney. There's this concept known as "negligence per se" ... meaning, more-or-less, negligence so very obvious it's universally recognized as negligence. A franchise who rarely has a shot at a #3 pick who then hitches their wagon to the Boras Mule ... man, if that isn't negligence per se, I don't know what is.

 

Boras could be a thorn in THREE (3) related, but conceptually different ways:

1 -- Demanding 1-1 money (or more) at 1-3 ... and if the Sox don't pay, they lose the pick when he goes back to school (getting next year's #4 pick is NOT a valuable consolation prize in my world).

2 -- Same as above, but the Sox pay. And paying 1-1 at 1-3 seriously impacts signability and overslot candidates for the rest of their draft.

3 -- THIS ONE CONCERNS ME THE MOST -- with Scott Boras in charge, you have absolutely zero future chance of locking in a quality young arm long-term as they've done with Sale and Q ... and as the Sox need to do going forward to compete financially.

 

Personally, whenever I think of this draft, I assume there is NO Rodon. Since the Sox (IMO) want no part of all of his baggage, he may well as not exist. So, best case for the Sox is that he goes 1-1 or 1-2, then they're getting the SECOND pick in THEIR universe, choosing from amongst Kolek, Aiken, Hoffman, or even Jackson (I know that he's a Boras guy too ... but very different situation), LESS whichever one of the above is off the board.

 

Can't wait for this draft already!!!

Edited May 2, 2014 by CyAcosta41

[Buehrlesque]

My feeling, exactly.

 

I think the wise Rick Hahn is talking up Rodon at every opportunity precisely because he wants nothing to do with him. And, more accurately, nothing to do with the Scott Boras Freak Show.

 

For those that say the new rules diminish the Boras-factor -- could not disagree more. If Rodon was in a class of his own, with no warts (and I don't think either of these things are NOW true), and you had the opportunity to draft Rodon at 1-3, then you do it and deal with Boras the best you can. But, there are other options. Good options. Hahn is an attorney. There's this concept known as "negligence per se" ... meaning, more-or-less, negligence so very obvious it's universally recognized as negligence. A franchise who rarely has a shot at a #3 pick who then hitches their wagon to the Boras Mule ... man, if that isn't negligence per se, I don't know what is.

 

Boras could be a thorn in THREE (3) related, but conceptually different ways:

1 -- Demanding 1-1 money (or more) at 1-3 ... and if the Sox don't pay, they lose the pick when he goes back to school (getting next year's #4 pick is NOT a valuable consolation prize in my world).

2 -- Same as above, but the Sox pay. And paying 1-1 at 1-3 seriously impacts signability and overslot candidates for the rest of their draft.

3 -- THIS ONE CONCERNS ME THE MOST -- with Scott Boras in charge, you have absolutely zero future chance of locking in a quality young arm long-term as they've done with Sale and Q ... and as the Sox need to do going forward to compete financially.

 

Personally, whenever I think of this draft, I assume there is NO Rodon. Since the Sox (IMO) want no part of all of his baggage, he may well as not exist. So, best case for the Sox is that he goes 1-1 or 1-2, then they're getting the SECOND pick in THEIR universe, choosing from amongst Kolek, Aiken, Hoffman, or even Jackson (I know that he's a Boras guy too ... but very different situation), LESS whichever one of the above is off the board.

 

Can't wait for this draft already!!!

Number 3 is the main concern. The worries about number 1 and 2 are overblown. The difference between 1-1 and 1-3 money is $2.2 million. The reward for Rodon going back to school if everything goes completely right is $2.2 million. The risk of injury, delaying your pro career/free agency, other prospects being selected ahead of you next year, etc. would seem to far outweigh the minimal reward, which is no guarantee anyway. Boras or no Boras, that's a dumb move. However, I agree the Sox M.O. would have them avoiding the Boras factor in the major league years- going year to year in arbitration, buying out free agency years, etc., if there's a better/similar alternative.

 

Also, the Sox seem to prefer college arms. I really think if there's anyway they can justify picking Hoffman, they will. If his injury is too concerning, things will get interesting.

[Dick Allen]

If the Sox signed Rodon, and failed to sign everyone else they drafted, and Rodon was David Price like, the only draft they would have had up until this point of this century which would be as good or better is 2010 when Sale fell into their laps.

 

Take the best player available at #3. Don't worry about saving money for your other picks.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

If the Sox signed Rodon, and failed to sign everyone else they drafted, and Rodon was David Price like, the only draft they would have had up until this point of this century which would be as good or better is 2010 when Sale fell into their laps.

 

Take the best player available at #3. Don't worry about saving money for your other picks.

 

I count three big "if's" there.

[ptatc]

If the Sox signed Rodon, and failed to sign everyone else they drafted, and Rodon was David Price like, the only draft they would have had up until this point of this century which would be as good or better is 2010 when Sale fell into their laps.

 

Take the best player available at #3. Don't worry about saving money for your other picks.

The downside of this is what if he doesn't make the mlb. Then you have a draft with nothing. If you have more higher quality picks throughout the draft theoreticlly you have a better chance of getting an MLBer out of it.

I'm not saying which is the better option just that here is risk and reward with each option and which one do you chose. This is why I do not make the kind of money they do.

[maggsmaggs]

The downside of this is what if he doesn't make the mlb. Then you have a draft with nothing. If you have more higher quality picks throughout the draft theoreticlly you have a better chance of getting an MLBer out of it.

I'm not saying which is the better option just that here is risk and reward with each option and which one do you chose. This is why I do not make the kind of money they do.

All I know is look at most of the White Sox's drafts in the past. We have received nothing from a lot of them. The projected WAR of the top player in the Draft is higher than the aggregate projected WAR from a team's Round 2 picks through Round 10.

[gatnom]

If the Sox signed Rodon, and failed to sign everyone else they drafted, and Rodon was David Price like, the only draft they would have had up until this point of this century which would be as good or better is 2010 when Sale fell into their laps.

 

Take the best player available at #3. Don't worry about saving money for your other picks.

 

There's no guarantee that Rodon will be David Price like. Who's to say he doesn't get injured or just outright bust?

 

 

[Eminor3rd]

My feeling, exactly.

 

I think the wise Rick Hahn is talking up Rodon at every opportunity precisely because he wants nothing to do with him. And, more accurately, nothing to do with the Scott Boras Freak Show.

 

For those that say the new rules diminish the Boras-factor -- could not disagree more. If Rodon was in a class of his own, with no warts (and I don't think either of these things are NOW true), and you had the opportunity to draft Rodon at 1-3, then you do it and deal with Boras the best you can. But, there are other options. Good options. Hahn is an attorney. There's this concept known as "negligence per se" ... meaning, more-or-less, negligence so very obvious it's universally recognized as negligence. A franchise who rarely has a shot at a #3 pick who then hitches their wagon to the Boras Mule ... man, if that isn't negligence per se, I don't know what is.

 

Boras could be a thorn in THREE (3) related, but conceptually different ways:

1 -- Demanding 1-1 money (or more) at 1-3 ... and if the Sox don't pay, they lose the pick when he goes back to school (getting next year's #4 pick is NOT a valuable consolation prize in my world).

2 -- Same as above, but the Sox pay. And paying 1-1 at 1-3 seriously impacts signability and overslot candidates for the rest of their draft.

3 -- THIS ONE CONCERNS ME THE MOST -- with Scott Boras in charge, you have absolutely zero future chance of locking in a quality young arm long-term as they've done with Sale and Q ... and as the Sox need to do going forward to compete financially.

 

Personally, whenever I think of this draft, I assume there is NO Rodon. Since the Sox (IMO) want no part of all of his baggage, he may well as not exist. So, best case for the Sox is that he goes 1-1 or 1-2, then they're getting the SECOND pick in THEIR universe, choosing from amongst Kolek, Aiken, Hoffman, or even Jackson (I know that he's a Boras guy too ... but very different situation), LESS whichever one of the above is off the board.

 

Can't wait for this draft already!!!

 

It seems to me that many here are forgetting that Boras' ultimate goal is to make the most money for his client -- it is NOT to create ultimate chaos. Boras is not a villain who is trying to trick teams into failure. He's just trying to maximize the dollars.

 

It also seems like many forget that the player has ultimate decision. Boras will attempt to convince the player one way or the other, but there are plenty of guys who won't turn down $6m for the shot at $8m or whatever. The player is the one that assumes the risk.

 

If Rodon goes three and decides not to sign for a penny less than #1 slot value, he took some bad advice. Boras is smart man who gets what he wants most of the time. If he jerked teams around, gave bad advice, and exploited clients, he wouldn't keep getting new business.

 

[Dick Allen]

I count three big "if's" there.

The entire draft is an if. You draft the best player. You defended the White Sox drafting Walker and his horribleness by pointing out only one of the supplemental picks his year made the majors. Why are you going to go cheap on pick #3 to have more money for a longshot? I also don't think if Rodon goes #3 he will not sign for a reasonable amount. It might be overslot, but I doubt he goes back to NCS if he's offered something reasonable.

 

Maybe he isn't the guy the Sox think is the best. But drafting at #3 and picking based on saving a lot of money for later rounds isn't really too much different from the philosophy which got their system in this mess.

[southsider2k5]

All I know is look at most of the White Sox's drafts in the past. We have received nothing from a lot of them. The projected WAR of the top player in the Draft is higher than the aggregate projected WAR from a team's Round 2 picks through Round 10.

 

4 of the White Sox 25 man roster comes from the 1st round (Sale, John Danks, Konerko, and Beckham. That means 84% of the team is from outside of the round one of the MLB draft.

[southsider2k5]

The entire draft is an if. You draft the best player. You defended the White Sox drafting Walker and his horribleness by pointing out only one of the supplemental picks his year made the majors. Why are you going to go cheap on pick #3 to have more money for a longshot? I also don't think if Rodon goes #3 he will not sign for a reasonable amount. It might be overslot, but I doubt he goes back to NCS if he's offered something reasonable.

 

Maybe he isn't the guy the Sox think is the best. But drafting at #3 and picking based on saving a lot of money for later rounds isn't really too much different from the philosophy which got their system in this mess.

 

 

4 of the White Sox 25 man roster comes from the 1st round (Sale, John Danks, Konerko, and Beckham. That means 84% of the team is from outside of the round one of the MLB draft.

 

[fathom]

The entire draft is an if. You draft the best player. You defended the White Sox drafting Walker and his horribleness by pointing out only one of the supplemental picks his year made the majors. Why are you going to go cheap on pick #3 to have more money for a longshot? I also don't think if Rodon goes #3 he will not sign for a reasonable amount. It might be overslot, but I doubt he goes back to NCS if he's offered something reasonable.

 

Maybe he isn't the guy the Sox think is the best. But drafting at #3 and picking based on saving a lot of money for later rounds isn't really too much different from the philosophy which got their system in this mess.

 

I couldn't agree with you more. I'll be quite disappointed if the Sox pass on Rodon for someone ranked in the 10-20 range, only to have the Cubs pay Rodon what he's looking for and seeing him turn into the star a lot of people have predicted he'll become.

[Dick Allen]

It seems to me that many here are forgetting that Boras' ultimate goal is to make the most money for his client -- it is NOT to create ultimate chaos. Boras is not a villain who is trying to trick teams into failure. He's just trying to maximize the dollars.

 

It also seems like many forget that the player has ultimate decision. Boras will attempt to convince the player one way or the other, but there are plenty of guys who won't turn down $6m for the shot at $8m or whatever. The player is the one that assumes the risk.

 

If Rodon goes three and decides not to sign for a penny less than #1 slot value, he took some bad advice. Boras is smart man who gets what he wants most of the time. If he jerked teams around, gave bad advice, and exploited clients, he wouldn't keep getting new business.

 

First off, Boras cannot directly negotiate with the White Sox or whichever team makes the selection or Mr. Rodon doesn't have the option of returning to pitch in college.

 

Playing hardball has worked for some and screwed others. I was reading where Houston offered Appel $6 million the year before, and he said no. The Pirates drafted him and offered him $3.8 which of course was turned down. He ultimately signs with Houston the next year for $6.35 million. So losing a year of pro ball, he did gain $350k, but is probably a year behind in development, if not more. It could cost him an extra year to arbitration which make the risk of return pretty stupid. I think if JR and Hahn talk to this kid and his parents, or any team for that matter, they can show that being picked in the top 3 and not signing really makes little sense. The risk far outweighs the reward.

[fathom]

First off, Boras cannot directly negotiate with the White Sox or whichever team makes the selection or Mr. Rodon doesn't have the option of returning to pitch in college.

 

Playing hardball has worked for some and screwed others. I was reading where Houston offered Appel $6 million the year before, and he said no. The Pirates drafted him and offered him $3.8 which of course was turned down. He ultimately signs with Houston the next year for $6.35 million. So losing a year of pro ball, he did gain $350k, but is probably a year behind in development, if not more. It could cost him an extra year to arbitration which make the risk of return pretty stupid. I think if JR and Hahn talk to this kid and his parents, or any team for that matter, they can show that being picked in the top 3 and not signing really makes little sense. The risk far outweighs the reward.

 

In a situation like Rodon's, I think the Sox history of being incredibly aggressive with their assignments for top draft picks will help them. It wouldn't shock me if the told Rodon he could be in the majors the following season in order to try and get him on board.

[Dick Allen]

The White Sox have 5 of their own draft picks on their roster not including Sale:

Jordan Danks

Gordon Beckham

Marcus Semien

 

Jake Petricka

 

 

Not exactly hard to replace.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Dick Allen

[fathom]

The White Sox have 5 of their own draft picks on their roster not including Sale:

Jordan Danks

Gordon Beckham

Marcus Semien

Daniel Webb

Jake Petricka

 

 

Not exactly hard to replace.

 

Webb shouldn't be on the list.

[southsider2k5]

The White Sox have 5 of their own draft picks on their roster not including Sale:

Jordan Danks

Gordon Beckham

Marcus Semien

Daniel Webb

Jake Petricka

 

 

Not exactly hard to replace.

 

If you are going to look at it that way, you have to look at all White Sox draft picks on major league rosters, or non-first round picks of other teams who are on the White Sox roster.

[Dick Allen]

If you are going to look at it that way, you have to look at all White Sox draft picks on major league rosters, or non-first round picks of other teams who are on the White Sox roster.

Tell me who is on another roster that is star. I liked Addison Reed, but a lot of people where really happy when he was shipped out for a poor man's Josh Fields.

 

The White Sox have drafted like crap for years, yet they still can get other teams draft picks on their roster. So I don't see why that would matter.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Dick Allen]

Webb shouldn't be on the list.

You are correct.

[southsider2k5]

Tell me who is on another roster that is star. I liked Addison Reed, but a lot of people where really happy when he was shipped out for a poor man's Josh Fields.

 

Using a restrictive model isn't accurate. Those horrible draft picks brought Jake Peavy here, who in turn brought Avi Garcia here. Throw out guys like Clayton Richards, that deal doesn't get done, which means Garcia is never a White Sox. A non-first round Sox draft pick brought John Danks here. A Sox non-first round pick brought Conor Gillaspie here. A non-first round Sox pick brought Adam Eaton here.... etc, etc.

 

It is pretty impossible to trade guys you didn't bring into the organization.

[Jake]

Boras would likely listen to an offer that isn't way overslot if we can make some sort of promise about starting his service time, ala Chris Sale. It'd shock me if Rodon wouldn't be ready to act as a LOOGY by end of season

[Dick Allen]

Using a restrictive model isn't accurate. Those horrible draft picks brought Jake Peavy here, who in turn brought Avi Garcia here. Throw out guys like Clayton Richards, that deal doesn't get done, which means Garcia is never a White Sox. A non-first round Sox draft pick brought John Danks here. A Sox non-first round pick brought Conor Gillaspie here. A non-first round Sox pick brought Adam Eaton here.... etc, etc.

 

It is pretty impossible to trade guys you didn't bring into the organization.

So no names. As far as I can tell the Sox will still field minor league teams and you don't have to trade for Peavy if you already drafted an ace.

[Balta1701]

I couldn't agree with you more. I'll be quite disappointed if the Sox pass on Rodon for someone ranked in the 10-20 range, only to have the Cubs pay Rodon what he's looking for and seeing him turn into the star a lot of people have predicted he'll become.

Seriously, the Cubs entire draft pool is about $8 million this year. Their entire draft pool is close to the slot value of the #1 pick. If the Cubs draft him and have to pay him that amount and he only gets that far because the White Sox won't, they may as well forfeit the rest of the draft.

[LDF]

Can't wait for this draft already!!!

 

wow.... what a great post and smart ............ are you a lawyer?

[LDF]

Seriously, the Cubs entire draft pool is about $8 million this year. Their entire draft pool is close to the slot value of the #1 pick. If the Cubs draft him and have to pay him that amount and he only gets that far because the White Sox won't, they may as well forfeit the rest of the draft.

 

with ref to boras, yes he tries to max out the money for his clients, but doesn't mean that the sox org nor the

fans have to like how he does things.

 

for us, the Monday morning QB so to speak, who enjoys talking baseball will venture to say, why deal with him,

esp if we might not sign him. the idea of letting a really good or better player go, b/c of certain circumstances

is not the right way to get this ship, the sox farm, with quality players.