Al Lopez's Ghost Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Am I reading this right? An infielder/pitcher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 11:09 AM) Am I reading this right? An infielder/pitcher? two separate players. A pitcher and an infielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 Kline http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/p...id=kline-002ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 Bierman twitter @Bierman973 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 SSS on Bierman http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/10/15/484...esse-crain-deal Tommy John surgery is the cause of the third part. Bierman pitched at Vanderbilt in 2008 and 2009, but transferred to the University of Tampa in 2010. He underwent Tommy John surgery after that season, which kept him out of action in 2011. He returned in 2012 as a redshirt senior and had a nice year, and the Rays picked the hometown guy in the 10th round. That's not necessarily indicative of his true draft stock, but he signed for $125,000, so it looks like more than a "random college senior" pick. Listed at 6'0" or 6'1", Bierman is a lefty on the smaller side who works with a high-80s fastball and command of a changeup and a curve (with rumors of a slider). He also keeps the ball down, if there's anything to his 55 percent career groundball rate. That combination can often get a pitcher to Triple-A before having major struggles, but Bierman also has a rocky injury history to contend with (elbow soreness ended his season a couple weeks early). http://yossif.mlblogs.com/tag/rays-draft-results/ Round 10 (332nd overall): Sean Bierman, LHP, 10/20/1988 HT/WT: 6-1/195 B/T: L/L School: University of Tampa Scouting Report: The first southpaw selected by the Rays in this draft, Bierman doesn’t have great stuff and doesn’t have a future as a starter. ETA: 2015 http://www.draysbay.com/2012/6/6/3066691/2...raft-rays-recap Round 10 (332 overall) Sean Bierman, LHP, 10/20/1988 HT/WT: 6-1/195 B/T: L/L School: University of Tampa Value: He is a "reach" at this spot. Still, players like him help the Rays to have room to sign higher ranked players. Scouting Report: There are few reports on him, but he throws a variety of pitches and mixes them well to get good results. None of his pitches stand out. Best Case Scenario: He could develop into a 4/5 starter or middle reliever, but that is really stretching it. ETA: 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 08:55 AM) They can do that anyway though. He's not getting a $13 million qualifying offer so he's not going to bring them a draft pick or anything. They could lock him up before hitting free agency though if he is healthy. Nice consolation prize for them in all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 11:19 AM) Bierman twitter @Bierman973 Ben Kline @Bkline6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 We need one of the insiders to find out how good it could have been if Crain pitched the last two months. Curious what was on the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 09:44 AM) If the Sox run a bullpen of Reed, Crain, Jones, Lindstrom, Webb, Veal, and Leesman, with Petricka in AAA as the first righty called up, we'd be happy (with the lefties here just as well being random names because they could bring in any number of other lefties too). That's a pen you aren't going to win anything with and it has little upside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 11:45 AM) That's a pen you aren't going to win anything with and it has little upside. This statement absolutely blows my mind with how inaccurate it is and how far off point it is beyond that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/break...0,2262789.story Anything is better than nothing for Crain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 11:45 AM) That's a pen you aren't going to win anything with and it has little upside. I'm sorry, this is still bugging me. This pen has little upside? I genuinely don't know if you understand what upside is if that's how you feel. -Reed averaged a strike per inning, showed fairly good control, and was an all around good reliever this year. He has a tendency to give up big home runs and has let runners score the past couple years, but both of those will almost certainly continue to improve with experience. He has 2 very good pitches - the fastball and changeup - but, while his slider moves a lot, it doesn't have a lot of tilt to it and it tends to hang. It's almost more of a set up pitch though as he'll get guys chasing the change down or fastball up. -Jones struck out more hitters, walked fewer hitters, and threw more ground balls this year than last year, but somehow he allowed more home runs and couldn't strand runners. Jones had an incredible year developmentally and his ERA was as high as it was due almost 100% to dumb luck. Guys that average 97.5 MPH on the gun and have sliders with good tilt make for very good relievers. -Lindstrom is a perfectly ordinary middle reliever, a guy who can come in during the 6th or 7th and get a few outs. For how hard he throws, he doesn't strike a lot of guys out, but he's always thrown a lot of ground balls. -Daniel Webb averages 96 with his fastball and his slider was already proving to be a quality pitch in the little time he was up. He carved the minors up and, given a full season's worth of experience, he should easily turn into a very good reliever. -We've seen what Crain is capable of. -Petricka, as the 8th reliever, averaged 93.5 with his fastball, showed a good slider, and he too pitched well in the minors. As I said, I think he could use a bit of minor league refinement, but he's not far off. The lefties need work, as I'm not fond of Veal as the #1 lefty, but there are a few lefty relievers available on the market plus there are a few others who could be good pitchers for the Sox this year, like a Santos Rodriguez. At this point, if you say that pen has no upside, you're 100% trolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 11:50 AM) This statement absolutely blows my mind with how inaccurate it is and how far off point it is beyond that We've seen this pen in in action and it wasnt all that impressive. Reed is close to being just another pen arm, Jones is just another pen arm, and Crain is coming off of a shoulder injury. Webb has the stuff to be closer, we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 12:18 PM) We've seen this pen in in action and it wasnt all that impressive. Reed is close to being just another pen arm, Jones is just another pen arm, and Crain is coming off of a shoulder injury. Webb has the stuff to be closer, we'll see. The bullpen, minus Crain for much of the year, minus Webb, plus Troncoso, plus Axelrod, plus whatever other poor pithcers they used (Omogrosso, Heath, whoever) put up an ERA of 4.00 and a WHIP of 1.40, and a K/9 of 8.1. You add Webb to that group and if you bring Crain back, you are probably talking about a 3.00-3.50 ERA between those top 5 righties with a WHIP around 1.10-1.20 and K/9 north of 9. Both Troncoso and Axelrod were brutal. I mean, basically the same bullpen was used in 2012. That team nearly won a division. How can you say "they won't win" when they very nearly did win? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (flavum @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 12:40 PM) We need one of the insiders to find out how good it could have been if Crain pitched the last two months. Curious what was on the table. I doubt that would ever be known. The last thing the Rays would want is for one of their actual talented prospects to hear that he was potentially on the trading block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 12:36 PM) The bullpen, minus Crain for much of the year, minus Webb, plus Troncoso, plus Axelrod, plus whatever other poor pithcers they used (Omogrosso, Heath, whoever) put up an ERA of 4.00 and a WHIP of 1.40, and a K/9 of 8.1. You add Webb to that group and if you bring Crain back, you are probably talking about a 3.00-3.50 ERA between those top 5 righties with a WHIP around 1.10-1.20 and K/9 north of 9. Both Troncoso and Axelrod were brutal. I mean, basically the same bullpen was used in 2012. That team nearly won a division. How can you say "they won't win" when they very nearly did win? They didn't win in 2012 and two years is an eternity when you're talking bullpens especially since Reed has regressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 12:43 PM) They didn't win in 2012 and two years is an eternity when you're talking bullpens especially since Reed has regressed. I don't buy that. I'd bet on a dead arm period due to pitching 6 of 7 days, or whatever it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 01:43 PM) They didn't win in 2012 and two years is an eternity when you're talking bullpens especially since Reed has regressed. 2012 ERA 4.75, 1.36 WHIP, 55 IP, 9.3 H/9, 8.8 K/9, 1 HR/9 2013 ERA 3.79, 1.11 WHIP, 71 IP, 7.1 H/9, 9.1 K/9, 0.8 HR/9. Literally every single one of his numbers improved last year without exaggeration. That's the worst job of regressing I've ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 According to fWAR: Jones was the 8th most valuable reliever in baseball, Reed the 13th. They were tied for 5th going into September when Reed hit his dead arm period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 12:46 PM) 2012 ERA 4.75, 1.36 WHIP, 55 IP, 9.3 H/9, 8.8 K/9, 1 HR/9 2013 ERA 3.79, 1.11 WHIP, 71 IP, 7.1 H/9, 9.1 K/9, 0.8 HR/9. Literally every single one of his numbers improved last year without exaggeration. That's the worst job of regressing I've ever seen. Fastball velocity regressed to a pedestrian 92.7 mph along with 83.3% save percentage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 02:00 PM) Fastball velocity regressed to a pedestrian 92.7 mph along with 83.3% save percentage. Thankfully we don't have a pitching coach with a record of teaching people how to give up a few miles per hour on their fastball in exchange for better movement and control, because if we did you'd probably feel pretty dumb for writing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 01:00 PM) Fastball velocity regressed to a pedestrian 92.7 mph along with 83.3% save percentage. Fastball velocity was still better than Chris Sale's. Oh, no. The Sox better get rid of Sale and his pedestrian fastball. LMAO at the Red Sox. Do they really think they can win a WS with a closer who doesn't even average 90 MPH. Who cares if he strikes out 12 per 9. Edited October 16, 2013 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 FutureSox write-up of the return on Crain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 01:05 PM) Thankfully we don't have a pitching coach with a record of teaching people how to give up a few miles per hour on their fastball in exchange for better movement and control, because if we did you'd probably feel pretty dumb for writing that. That's all well and good, but that 83% save percentage says maybe he should keep the velocity, B! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 01:00 PM) Fastball velocity regressed to a pedestrian 92.7 mph along with 83.3% save percentage. I'd like to see monthly splits on the velocity numbers before deciding if they are relevant. All you have to do is look at his numbers after his consecutive saves streak to know what the problem was. 3 losses and 3 save ops were after that period of time. 9 of the 30 ER's he allowed were after that. All you are doing with those numbers is being disingenuous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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