Rios, $1M traded to Rangers

[lasttriptotulsa]

Good - Give him a shot there. Lord knows we need a CF.

 

I highly doubt he will play CF at the Major League level. He is already huge and at 22 his body may not be done filling out yet. He is clearly destined for a corner.

[witesoxfan]

There is so much going on in this thread that is facepalm worthy

[Eminor3rd]

I highly doubt he will play CF at the Major League level. He is already huge and at 22 his body may not be done filling out yet. He is clearly destined for a corner.

 

Lots of SS are destined for 3B too, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't play SS while they can. There's no harm in letting him fill a position he can handle now if the team needs it and its a way to get him in the lineup.

[royoung]

If you're looking at a prospect list, yes. If you're looking at what we need I would value Garcia more than Bradley.

 

I may be alone on that.

 

In a vacuum, yes I would say you are alone on that. Archie Bradley is 20 years old and already dominating AA. If you are looking at fits for the White Sox, I could see the argument that SP is a strength of ours, as we need young, promising hitters more. However, I believe you can never have enough good young starting pitching and it's the most important position in baseball, especially post steroid era. You can always trade starting pitching for hitters later if you have an excess. I don't think that Bradley was available though, he's gotta be untouchable, especially for Peavy.

[royoung]

I fully expect there to be some rumors related to Ramirez and Rios during the waiver process and as a result of such I'm going to leave trade winds open. I fully expect the Sox will make another deal during the waiver period (it might just be Lindstrom) but I expect another move.

 

Agreed. Hahn said as much himself.

[kitekrazy]

There is undeniably an attitude problem with this team. It isn't the whole problem, there have been injuries, bad luck, aging, young players not taking steps forward, but also attitude. It has not felt like many players on this team cared about the results of games for much of the season.

 

Great case for a new manager.

 

[Jake]

Great case for a new manager.

 

It would be if it weren't for the fact the previous manager presided over a team with similar issues and had the same players

[GreenSox]

It would be if it weren't for the fact the previous manager presided over a team with similar issues and had the same players

Still is.

The prior manager had these problems late in his career when he tired of his job.

The current manager was brought in after a 10 year absence from MLB and are the result of lack of skill and experience, and don't indicate an organizational issue (other than hiring him in the first place).

[Dick Allen]

Still is.

The prior manager had these problems late in his career when he tired of his job.

The current manager was brought in after a 10 year absence from MLB and are the result of lack of skill and experience, and don't indicate an organizational issue (other than hiring him in the first place).

If is lack of skill and experience is the problem this year, how do you explain last season?

[GreatScott82]

If is lack of skill and experience is the problem this year, how do you explain last season?

Well the Sox had some better players last year (AJ and Youk). Also played MUCH MUCH better defensively. I think every player was simply rejuvenated from the hiring of a new manager last year. I do feel since then, each player has been more complacent. They truly exemplify Robin's laid back managerial style and IMO that has hurt the team quite a bit.

 

Overall, I believe the Sox are where they are is an overall organizational problem. Hahn did make a few minor moves to help out the farm, but he is still long ways away to fix the overall philosophy of this team. I wouldn't mind another rebuilding/ retooling year in 2014 as well. Let Robin finish out his contract, lets acquire another top 5 draft pick for 2015 and hire a new manager for the 2015 season.

 

 

 

[winninguglyin83]

This team is bad, but it should not be 100-loss bad.

 

It's been the perfect storm of terrible play, a few injuries, lack of talent, absence of leaders and, now, absolute surrender.

 

Kenny Williams left a colossal mess, one that many posters on this board started predicting was inevitable several years ago.

 

Hahn faces quite a dilemma because the every day lineup is so incomplete it will take time to fix.

 

Can't even re-run those The Kids Can Play commercials. Not many kids who can play.

 

Good luck selling optimism -- or tickets next season.

 

 

[GreenSox]

If is lack of skill and experience is the problem this year, how do you explain last season?

His lack of experience and skill showed markedly last September.

I just don't see how a player who has never even sat on a bench as a coach and then was away for a decade, has the credentials as a manager.

And it's not all him...he had accept the legacy coaches as assistants, of course.

Edited August 2, 2013 by GreenSox

[Balta1701]

His lack of experience and skill showed markedly last September.

I just don't see how a player who has never even sat on a bench as a coach and then was away for a decade, has the credentials as a manager.

And it's not all him...he had accept the legacy coaches as assistants, of course.

Can you give some examples of what he specifically did wrong last September?

 

My impression was that it wasn't Ventura making mistakes as much as it was the team being exhausted. Quintana, Sale, and Peavy were all about the limit of innings they could humanly be expected to throw, and guys like Youkilis and Konerko were being run into the ground because they had no backups (to be fair of course, the backups for a lot of positions were traded away to get guys like Youk, so at least last year there was a good reason why the regulars were worn out).

[fathom]

Can you give some examples of what he specifically did wrong last September?

 

Not sure if these two examples were in the same game, but Ventura did use Septimo instead of Veal once to face Fielder (who had no chance vs Veal), and Prince homered. Then, with the Sox making a furious rally off of Benoit, he asked Youkilis to bunt which resulted in two poor attempts and strike 3.

[Chisoxfn]

Can you give some examples of what he specifically did wrong last September?

 

My impression was that it wasn't Ventura making mistakes as much as it was the team being exhausted. Quintana, Sale, and Peavy were all about the limit of innings they could humanly be expected to throw, and guys like Youkilis and Konerko were being run into the ground because they had no backups (to be fair of course, the backups for a lot of positions were traded away to get guys like Youk, so at least last year there was a good reason why the regulars were worn out).

I fully agree.

 

[Kyyle23]

Youkilis was pretty terrible after a good start.

[Balta1701]

Youkilis was pretty terrible after a good start.

I thought that was 100% predictable the way the Sox ran him out there every day at 3rd base. I'm pretty sure that's why I was strongly opposed to giving up anything of value for Youkilis before they made the trade for him without giving up anything of value.

 

Playing him at 3rd every day was killing him in Boston and it killed him in Chicago. Ideally he ought to have been playing 2 of every 3 days or something like that, but the backup options the Sox had available were pathetic, so I get why he was out there every dya.

[Kyyle23]

I thought that was 100% predictable the way the Sox ran him out there every day at 3rd base. I'm pretty sure that's why I was strongly opposed to giving up anything of value for Youkilis before they made the trade for him without giving up anything of value.

 

Playing him at 3rd every day was killing him in Boston and it killed him in Chicago. Ideally he ought to have been playing 2 of every 3 days or something like that, but the backup options the Sox had available were pathetic, so I get why he was out there every dya.

 

I dont think it mattered. I think his back was shot all year last year, which is why his time as a yankee was fleeting.

[Jake]

Can you give some examples of what he specifically did wrong last September?

 

My impression was that it wasn't Ventura making mistakes as much as it was the team being exhausted. Quintana, Sale, and Peavy were all about the limit of innings they could humanly be expected to throw, and guys like Youkilis and Konerko were being run into the ground because they had no backups (to be fair of course, the backups for a lot of positions were traded away to get guys like Youk, so at least last year there was a good reason why the regulars were worn out).

 

Basically, when your offense is horrible, the manager looks bad. Every offensive decision will look bad and anything that goes wrong with the pitchers will look much, much worse.

[greg775]

Not sure if these two examples were in the same game, but Ventura did use Septimo instead of Veal once to face Fielder (who had no chance vs Veal), and Prince homered. Then, with the Sox making a furious rally off of Benoit, he asked Youkilis to bunt which resulted in two poor attempts and strike 3.

 

I was saddened 2 games ago when Hawk said none of this is Robin's fault. OK, I love Hawk, but Hawk consistently said we had a good team up until the all-star break. So I guess Hawk is blaming the players and only the players for this pathetic play. Hawk was so adamant it was NOT Robin's fault it made me embarrassed to be such a Hawk homer that I am.

Cmon Hawk. You love Robin, but he's manager of one of the biggest embarrassment teams in Sox lore. This team blows and yes, part of it is Robin's fault.

Maybe he blames Manto and Coop. The players can't be the ONLY reason this team blows.

[GreenSox]

Not sure if these two examples were in the same game, but Ventura did use Septimo instead of Veal once to face Fielder (who had no chance vs Veal), and Prince homered. Then, with the Sox making a furious rally off of Benoit, he asked Youkilis to bunt which resulted in two poor attempts and strike 3.

this indicates what he did all September. Used the back end of the pen in high leverage situations (and he's done it all year long this year too) and starting bunting like a madman in September.

Edited August 3, 2013 by GreenSox

[Y2Jimmy0]

I was saddened 2 games ago when Hawk said none of this is Robin's fault. OK, I love Hawk, but Hawk consistently said we had a good team up until the all-star break. So I guess Hawk is blaming the players and only the players for this pathetic play. Hawk was so adamant it was NOT Robin's fault it made me embarrassed to be such a Hawk homer that I am.

Cmon Hawk. You love Robin, but he's manager of one of the biggest embarrassment teams in Sox lore. This team blows and yes, part of it is Robin's fault.

Maybe he blames Manto and Coop. The players can't be the ONLY reason this team blows.

 

 

Ventura got way too much credit for last year's success and he is getting way too much criticism for this year's failure. This is a poorly put together baseball team. They all played above expectations last season. That was unrealistic for this year. A lot of these players are the same players that have been here for multiple failures. The White Sox have had 1 playoff appearance and 1 playoff win since 2005. That's not the manager's fault. The White Sox have players that don't get on base and they aren't hitting homers. Now, I hate how many outs Ventura gives away for no apparent reason but other than that this team is so flawed that I can't really blame him for much else.

[Jerksticks]

Ventura got way too much credit for last year's success and he is getting way too much criticism for this year's failure. This is a poorly put together baseball team. They all played above expectations last season. That was unrealistic for this year. A lot of these players are the same players that have been here for multiple failures. The White Sox have had 1 playoff appearance and 1 playoff win since 2005. That's not the manager's fault. The White Sox have players that don't get on base and they aren't hitting homers. Now, I hate how many outs Ventura gives away for no apparent reason but other than that this team is so flawed that I can't really blame him for much else.

Yea.

1% Robin

74% Konerko not being the Professor...

25% complimentary pieces being atrocious. (Hahn/KW/FO)

[greg775]

Yea.

1% Robin

74% Konerko not being the Professor...

25% complimentary pieces being atrocious. (Hahn/KW/FO)

 

Cmon. 74 percent on Konerko? 1 percent on the manager? OK, that proves managers do nothing. Might as well let some Soxtalk poster have the job. Konerko can't hit anymore, but he doesn't deserve 74 percent. Wow.

[greg775]

Ventura got way too much credit for last year's success and he is getting way too much criticism for this year's failure. This is a poorly put together baseball team. They all played above expectations last season. That was unrealistic for this year. A lot of these players are the same players that have been here for multiple failures. The White Sox have had 1 playoff appearance and 1 playoff win since 2005. That's not the manager's fault. The White Sox have players that don't get on base and they aren't hitting homers. Now, I hate how many outs Ventura gives away for no apparent reason but other than that this team is so flawed that I can't really blame him for much else.

 

What do you mean he's catching too much criticism for this year's failure? I don't see him catching any grief for this year. He's been exempt. My guess is because he keeps his mouth shut for the most part, unlike my fave Sox manager of all time.I personally like him for calling out the lazy Rios, but I still think he's somewhat to blame.

Edited August 3, 2013 by greg775