Baron Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 05:23 PM) Sure. They have his replacement in AAA, and that is $17 million that could be spent on other players. I wonder if Hahn tried setting teams up before the deadline, knowing all along they would take salary relief but asking for the moon so teams would think he wouldn't give him up without a huge return. That would be fine if the player we were giving up was playing poorly. As much as I want to see Garcia up on this team...I'm going to be displeased if its just because we did a salary dump. Edited August 8, 2013 by Baron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I would think Rios is worth just about the same the Sox got from the Boston deals...2-3 lower level prospects, or 1 mid-level prospect. Plus they would be taking the salary for 2014. If this trade happens now, great. If it doesn't, that's ok too because they should be able to move him in the offseason. But I hope they get this done now to get Garcia in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I don't really get what Rios' "issues" or "baggage" is. Is it because he was a jerk to a fan once, or because he had a terrible season one time, or is it cause he dogs it when he grounds into a double play? I feel like these probably describe 70% of ballplayers. He is good and he has value, although its nowhere near what Hahn was supposedly asking. Luke Jackson and Leury Garcia plus small cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 06:23 PM) Sure. They have his replacement in AAA, and that is $17 million that could be spent on other players. I wonder if Hahn tried setting teams up before the deadline, knowing all along they would take salary relief but asking for the moon so teams would think he wouldn't give him up without a huge return. That $17 million is unlikely to give the White Sox better performance than Rios if it is spent on the FA market in the next offseason or two. And if the Sox are genuinely in a pinch for having too many outfielders, fine, move Viciedo to 1b next season and it's not the worst thing in the world. They aren't forced to do this if the Rangers won't give up something useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 QUOTE (Baron @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 05:26 PM) That would be fine if the player we were giving up was playing poorly and contributing very little. As much as I want to see Garcia up on this team...I'm going to be displeased if its just because we did a salary dump. The last couple months, Rios hasn't been all that productive. I think if it is a dump, it would be very similar to the time the got rid of Carlos Lee. You have to count what they do with the freed up funds as part of the return. Best case scenerio, what does Rios net you this winter or at the next deadline? For a team that probably won't comtend next year, is that better than the added financial flexibility? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 05:31 PM) The last couple months, Rios hasn't been all that productive. I think if it is a dump, it would be very similar to the time the got rid of Carlos Lee. You have to count what they do with the freed up funds as part of the return. Best case scenerio, what does Rios net you this winter or at the next deadline? For a team that probably won't comtend next year, is that better than the added financial flexibility? The point is to add both prospects and financial flexibility aka what they have been doing in all their trades so far. The White Sox are not forced to do anything right now. Edited August 8, 2013 by Baron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 06:31 PM) The last couple months, Rios hasn't been all that productive. I think if it is a dump, it would be very similar to the time the got rid of Carlos Lee. You have to count what they do with the freed up funds as part of the return. Best case scenerio, what does Rios net you this winter or at the next deadline? For a team that probably won't comtend next year, is that better than the added financial flexibility? That's fine, I'm happy to count the funds along with it, but we still got 2 key pieces to the 2005 team when Lee was dealt. He wasn't given away on waivers for nothing. Give me back a legit piece that could contribute in a couple years and I'll be close to content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 05:29 PM) That $17 million is unlikely to give the White Sox better performance than Rios if it is spent on the FA market in the next offseason or two. And if the Sox are genuinely in a pinch for having too many outfielders, fine, move Viciedo to 1b next season and it's not the worst thing in the world. They aren't forced to do this if the Rangers won't give up something useful. I don't know about that. Are we all looking at the same Alex Rios? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 That would be fine if the player we were giving up was playing poorly. As much as I want to see Garcia up on this team...I'm going to be displeased if its just because we did a salary dump. Again, he's a RF with a .427 slugging percentage. He's not getting younger, and he's not necessarily a great clubhouse guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 05:36 PM) Again, he's a RF with a .427 slugging percentage. He's not getting younger, and he's not necessarily a great clubhouse guy. The clubhouse thing was debunked by Jon Heyman about 2 weeks ago. Just people continue to ignore it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Matt Mosley @mattmosley 6m I'm hearing the Rangers aren't optimistic about landing Rios. But it's certainly worth a try. White Sox asking for too much. https://twitter.com/mattmosley Oh no the White Sox are looking for people in return! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 06:35 PM) I don't know about that. Are we all looking at the same Alex Rios? Yes. Like I pointed out earlier in this thread, Nelson Cruz has been worth 1.5 WAR on the year. Alex Rios has been worth 2.1 WAR on the year. 2.1 WAR translates to about $10 million in value already with 2 months to go in the season. And he's hitting .308 since the All Star Break, so yes he slumped in June but he's been solidly productive again since then. I have zero issues with him being in RF for the White Sox next year if the only other option is giving him away for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) Rios always looks better on paper than in reality...or in scouting reports when he's playing well and 100% locked in defensively, like for most of 2012. He is one of those players that loses focus more quickly when the team's struggling...for whatever reason. He just starts drifting with the tides, and has never really demonstrated any leadership abilities that anyone can detect or the beat writers have ever noticed. Along with that (the possibility we do hold onto him), the idea of DeAza or Garcia in CF is still a pretty scary scenario. They simply HAVE to improve up the middle, starting from the catching position and moving through 2B/SS to center. Edited August 8, 2013 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Yes. Like I pointed out earlier in this thread, Nelson Cruz has been worth 1.5 WAR on the year. Alex Rios has been worth 2.1 WAR on the year. 2.1 WAR translates to about $10 million in value already with 2 months to go in the season. And he's hitting .308 since the All Star Break, so yes he slumped in June but he's been solidly productive again since then. I have zero issues with him being in RF for the White Sox next year if the only other option is giving him away for free. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Baron @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 05:36 PM) The clubhouse thing was debunked by Jon Heyman about 2 weeks ago. Just people continue to ignore it. I don't think he is a bad guy. He is probably liked in the clubhouse. I just don't know if you want his inconsistent effort as a veteran around a young team. Stone was on a radio show last week which got no pub, but they asked him about Rios getting benched for loafing, and he said Alex was probably surprised because he hasn't hustled since he's been here and for the most part, gotten away with it. Edited August 8, 2013 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 QUOTE (Baron @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 05:37 PM) Matt Mosley @mattmosley 6m I'm hearing the Rangers aren't optimistic about landing Rios. But it's certainly worth a try. White Sox asking for too much. https://twitter.com/mattmosley Oh no the White Sox are looking for people in return! Not like Sox just going to hand Rios over to the Rangers. Gotta get something of value back. I don't expect a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 05:29 PM) That $17 million is unlikely to give the White Sox better performance than Rios if it is spent on the FA market in the next offseason or two. And if the Sox are genuinely in a pinch for having too many outfielders, fine, move Viciedo to 1b next season and it's not the worst thing in the world. They aren't forced to do this if the Rangers won't give up something useful. In the Sox situation where they have few prospects to build with and few veteran players other teams covet it would be to their advantage to have as much payroll flexibility as possible heading into the offseason. As was stated earlier in this thread, cash is king. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Sardinas or bust IMO. Lexi ain't no spring chicken and easilty (well not easily) be dealt in the off season. I still have a feeling the Cardinals may rear their ugly head on him during this waiver season. Not sure if Semien or Anderson are the real deal or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 05:42 PM) In the Sox situation where they have few prospects to build with and few veteran players other teams covet it would be to their advantage to have as much payroll flexibility as possible heading into the offseason. As was stated earlier in this thread, cash is king. Which is why the White Sox in all their trades so far have not been getting any prospects in return and just dumping salary right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 In the Sox situation where they have few prospects to build with and few veteran players other teams covet it would be to their advantage to have as much payroll flexibility as possible heading into the offseason. As was stated earlier in this thread, cash is king. Given the available FA talent this offseason, the Sox already have more payroll flexibility than they can use, or at least use wisely. Plus, Rios will still be a bargaining chip in the offseason if Texas won't pony up for him now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 05:38 PM) Yes. Like I pointed out earlier in this thread, Nelson Cruz has been worth 1.5 WAR on the year. Alex Rios has been worth 2.1 WAR on the year. 2.1 WAR translates to about $10 million in value already with 2 months to go in the season. And he's hitting .308 since the All Star Break, so yes he slumped in June but he's been solidly productive again since then. I have zero issues with him being in RF for the White Sox next year if the only other option is giving him away for free. What's a WAR worth to a team that is rebuilding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 04:40 PM) +1 I simply hate WAR being thrown out as the be-all, end-all discussion point in these situations. It's like we're back in Moneyball and we're ignoring the Grady Fuson group of scouts who are there to say, "Yes, but...." from having watched his entire career, his body language, his moping, his "banishment" from Toronto and tempestuous relationship with the fans. Of all the starting players on the White Sox since 2009, there are probably fewer Rios jerseys (being sported at USCF) than just about any player, which is telling, considering he's been our best player (arguably) in 2012 and 2013, but does anyone REALLY CARE about losing him or NOT watching him play another game in a Sox uniform? Will anyone say "it's such a shame" we will never watch Alex play for us in the future? Not many. And I know he's part of the reason (at least in the top five) that I haven't cared about the White Sox the last couple of months, waiting for him to be replaced by Garcia. Edited August 8, 2013 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 05:42 PM) In the Sox situation where they have few prospects to build with and few veteran players other teams covet it would be to their advantage to have as much payroll flexibility as possible heading into the offseason. As was stated earlier in this thread, cash is king. The first part is correct that we have few prospects and few veteran players other teams covet. But you know Rios is one of those guys. Rios=prospects and maybe some salary relief, but my focus would be the prospects. If the Rangers just wanted to absorb his salary with this claim and not give up anything, I'd be happy for this deal to not go through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I don't see a deal happening here either. If it does, I'd expect 1 or 2 mid-level guys coming back. I don't see the Sox giving him away, when they have the whole offseason to get something for him, and I don't see the Rangers throwing in a top-tier guy either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hurtin Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 05:13 PM) I'll admit, us signing Granderson is like my worst fear as a Sox fan. Can they claim Reynolds too? Let's corner the market on guys who hit home runs every once in a while, but strikeout more often than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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