Rios, $1M traded to Rangers

[South Side Fireworks Man]

 

 

2. The player may not be an active Major Leaguer player during the interval between the trade and the date the player is named. As a result, PTBNLs are basically always minor league prospects--though sometimes a long-term major league DL player is the PTBNL.

 

 

 

http://www.purplerow.com/2009/3/5/779703/m...tions-part-five

 

Isn't Garcia currently on the Rangers' 25 man active roster? If he is, he can't be the PTBNL according to this rule.

[caulfield12]

The Rangers will send the White Sox a player to be named later – minor league INF Leury Garcia if he clears waivers – or cash. The White Sox will also absorb some of the remaining $17 million left in Rios’ contract through 2014. If Garcia doesn’t clear waivers, the deal would change with the Rangers likely taking on more, if not all, of the remaining salary commitment.

 

dallas morning news/sports

 

We can get a decent idea of exactly the financial value being placed on acquiring Garcia right here in this paragraph...

 

As far the the Astros taking Garcia, they MIGHT...Correa is way down in A ball still, at least 1 1/2 or 2 seasons away from the big leagues.

[Balta1701]

2. The player may not be an active Major Leaguer player during the interval between the trade and the date the player is named. As a result, PTBNLs are basically always minor league prospects--though sometimes a long-term major league DL player is the PTBNL.

 

 

 

http://www.purplerow.com/2009/3/5/779703/m...tions-part-five

 

Isn't Garcia currently on the Rangers' 25 man active roster? If he is, he can't be the PTBNL according to this rule.

Garcia is not on the Rangers 25 man roster according to their website.

[Wedge]

I mean....just going on a huge spending spree across the board the last two years, throwing good money after bad, and hoping some of it sticks.

 

There's no arguing their Top 4-5-6-7 of K.Bryant/Baez/Soler/Olt/Almora/Alcantara is a LOT more interesting/exciting/intriguing.

 

Of course, there are no guarantees with prospects, any more than there is picking random mutual funds.

 

Unless I'm mistaken, Bryant, Baez, Almora, and Soler were draft picks? In the "trade a starting pitcher for prospects sweepstakes of 2013" I like Garcia over Olt. I'll grant you Alcantara as an international signing.

 

Not seeing where the Cubs spending willy nilly in trades is making a difference.

[bmags]

The Rangers will send the White Sox a player to be named later – minor league INF Leury Garcia if he clears waivers – or cash. The White Sox will also absorb some of the remaining $17 million left in Rios’ contract through 2014. If Garcia doesn’t clear waivers, the deal would change with the Rangers likely taking on more, if not all, of the remaining salary commitment.

 

dallas morning news/sports

 

We can get a decent idea of exactly the financial value being placed on acquiring Garcia right here in this paragraph...

 

As far the the Astros taking Garcia, they MIGHT...Correa is way down in A ball still, at least 1 1/2 or 2 seasons away from the big leagues.

 

But why? It seems like, considering they are not competing with the sox in anything right now, there would be some unspoken agreements that you don't be a dick just to be a dick as a fellow GM.

[Balta1701]

Unless I'm mistaken, Bryant, Baez, Almora, and Soler were draft picks? In the "trade a starting pitcher for prospects sweepstakes of 2013" I like Garcia over Olt. I'll grant you Alcantara as an international signing.

 

Not seeing where the Cubs spending willy nilly in trades is making a difference.

Soler was another international cuban signing done right before the international caps started

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Garcia is not on the Rangers 25 man roster according to their website.

Thanks!

[Eminor3rd]

Unless I'm mistaken, Bryant, Baez, Almora, and Soler were draft picks? In the "trade a starting pitcher for prospects sweepstakes of 2013" I like Garcia over Olt. I'll grant you Alcantara as an international signing.

 

Not seeing where the Cubs spending willy nilly in trades is making a difference.

 

No, Soler was a substantial international signing.

[caulfield12]

If you really want to pile up names though...the top 5 young starting pitchers in the White Sox org looks really intriguing as well if you count Sale. Sale, Santiago, Quintana, Rienzo, Johnson...looks pretty darn intriguing. And yes, there's no guarantee with any of those guys, but the White Sox may well have just as large of a fraction of a team put together with young guys as the Cubs. And ours are closer to the big leagues/more well established.

 

 

Part of it is surely psychological.

 

None of our top prospects (other than Hawkins) are position players...unless you want to include Trayce, too.

 

And nobody would be surprised if NONE of our current outfield prospects made it as big league regulars...so there's that lingering disappointment/suspicion of our own system and minor league development (in general), juxtaposed with the seeming riches in young position players that the Cubs have...

 

And yeah, the pitching's definitely harder to find/obtain. Maybe not sexy enough, though.

 

At least Semien and Micah Johnson and Phegley for awhile gave us SOMETHING to pin our hopes on...as well as Mr. Webb's development.

 

Now both Garcias, and we're yet to see what will come of the Jesse Crain deal.

Edited August 9, 2013 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

Thanks!

Garcia was sent down in June after Ian Kinsler came off the DL. His minor league numbers this year are entirely since he was sent down, so he's hitting .264 with a .723 OPS since being sent down.

[Wedge]

No, Soler was a substantial international signing.

 

Durp.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Suddenly a super sub is a quality return...c'mon, stop forcing bs down our throats.

I'd really like to know what you think the plan should be . Not happy with the return for Rios and you say we already have a good fielding SS . So we're supposed to keep the old expensive guys for what reason exactly ? I've read a lot of informed fans opinions on here and SSS and the consensus here varied a bit from the consensus there about what we should get for Rios. Perhaps you should read this and the comments section .http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/8/9/4604770/alex-rios-white-sox-rangers-waiver-trade-rumors . Most there thought Rios for the cash was good. One guy got most of the heat for saying Sox should get something and even he said a MI prospect would be good enough.

 

There are plenty of areas for the Sox to spend including upgrading scouts in specific areas like the Pacific Rim. Scouting and development are areas we need some improvements. You're acting like everything must be accomplised all at once. A piece here a piece there , upgrade the talent in the minors and the majors. Make a trade or 2 for need . Use talent received or already on the roster for trades. It might take 2-3 years . We may be stuck being crap a while who knows . Some talent is better than no talent while also giving yourself financial flexibility to upgrade the organization as a whole. Keeping over 30's waiting for them to get injured or decline in skills on a losing team is worth nothing and accomplishes nothing.

[Balta1701]

Part of it is surely psychological.

 

None of our top prospects (other than Hawkins) are position players...unless you want to include Trayce, too.

 

And nobody would be surprised if NONE of our current outfield prospects made it as big league regulars...so there's that lingering disappointment/suspicion of our own system and minor league development (in general), juxtaposed with the seeming riches in young position players that the Cubs have...

 

And yeah, the pitching's definitely harder to find/obtain. Maybe not sexy enough, though.

 

At least Semien and Micah Johnson and Phegley for awhile gave us SOMETHING to pin our hopes on...as well as Mr. Webb's development.

 

Now both Garcias, and we're yet to see what will come of the Jesse Crain deal.

You can write the exact same thing about the Cubs though, right? They don't have a single pitcher in their top 5-6 prospects and its entirely possible they have zero pitchers coming up through their system in the next couple years. Nobody would be surprised if none of their minor league pitchers stuck as major leaguers any time soon.

[Eminor3rd]

Unless I'm mistaken, Bryant, Baez, Almora, and Soler were draft picks? In the "trade a starting pitcher for prospects sweepstakes of 2013" I like Garcia over Olt. I'll grant you Alcantara as an international signing.

 

Not seeing where the Cubs spending willy nilly in trades is making a difference.

 

They apparently didn't get the memo about the international signing cap this year, blowing away the cap even after making trades to acquire as much cap space as possible. The penalty for doing so is substantial taxes on the the signings. They got a ton of talent, though -- most of the consensus top players IIRC.

[Balta1701]

They apparently didn't get the memo about the international signing cap this year, blowing away the cap even after making trades to acquire as much cap space as possible. The penalty for doing so is substantial taxes on the the signings. They got a ton of talent, though -- most of the consensus top players IIRC.

And in 6-7 years we can see what they actually get out of those guys. We might well get more out of Zapata (viva!) than they get out of any of them.

[mataipaepae]

Who do we need that OF slot for now?

 

If Rios wasn't moved I'd have thought that was an option yes, but who is going to take the starting OF slot from Viciedo now unless we sign someone? Jordan Danks? Blake Tekotte?

 

Trayce might force one of the OF's out of the way at some point but he's not nearly there yet.

maybe brandon jacobs? he has been hitting very well since coming over from boston. and he is very athletic and a good defender too.

[Eminor3rd]

And in 6-7 years we can see what they actually get out of those guys. We might well get more out of Zapata (viva!) than they get out of any of them.

 

Right but that's how you build a player development system that will provide sustainable success. You spend money flooding it with talent at all levels. If you're not spending those dollars on the MLB roster, that's the best place to put them.

[iamshack]

I'd really like to know what you think the plan should be . Not happy with the return for Rios and you say we already have a good fielding SS . So we're supposed to keep the old expensive guys for what reason exactly ? I've read a lot of informed fans opinions on here and SSS and the consensus here varied a bit from the consensus there about what we should get for Rios. Perhaps you should read this and the comments section .http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/8/9/4604770/alex-rios-white-sox-rangers-waiver-trade-rumors . Most there thought Rios for the cash was good. One guy got most of the heat for saying Sox should get something and even he said a MI prospect would be good enough.

 

There are plenty of areas for the Sox to spend including upgrading scouts in specific areas like the Pacific Rim. Scouting and development are areas we need some improvements. You're acting like everything must be accomplised all at once. A piece here a piece there , upgrade the talent in the minors and the majors. Make a trade or 2 for need . Use talent received or already on the roster for trades. It might take 2-3 years . We may be stuck being crap a while who knows . Some talent is better than no talent while also giving yourself financial flexibility to upgrade the organization as a whole. Keeping over 30's waiting for them to get injured or decline in skills on a losing team is worth nothing and accomplishes nothing.

You should have kept reading.

 

The plan should be to have a plan. I'm not sure what Hahn's is. But he's clearing money when there's a very weak FA class, which was alluded to in Jim's article you keep linking to. There are caps on the draft and international signings. There simply is nowhere to spend all this money in the immediate term. Accepting that, and looking at our available resources, it becomes clear that we do not have the talent in-house, nor the supply in the open market to drastically improve anytime soon. If you accept that, then what we should do is what the team across town is doing - converting current resources to future resources. The goal is build an organization that can challenge for championships consistently.

 

 

[Balta1701]

maybe brandon jacobs? he has been hitting very well since coming over from boston. and he is very athletic and a good defender too.

Jacobs just got called up to AA right before we traded for him, he's been there for what, less than 2 months? Calling him up would be a mad rush. He might be a guy we could think about being close to a callup next year in September or late in the year if someone gets hurt.

 

He's athletic but I wouldn't call him close to a good defender yet. I did not like the routes he took to the ball at all, he needs to get a lot better reading it off the bat.

 

If he's ready next year, great, he can be the guy who pushes us to trade De Aza or give up on Viciedo. He's not nearly that close yet.

[Princess Dye]

Have to admit i need a little review session...what's the prognosis for hopes of Brandon Jacobs in CF

 

or is he basically corner for sure

[Eminor3rd]

You should have kept reading.

 

The plan should be to have a plan. I'm not sure what Hahn's is. But he's clearing money when there's a very weak FA class, which was alluded to in Jim's article you keep linking to. There are caps on the draft and international signings. There simply is nowhere to spend all this money in the immediate term. Accepting that, and looking at our available resources, it becomes clear that we do not have the talent in-house, nor the supply in the open market to drastically improve anytime soon. If you accept that, then what we should do is what the team across town is doing - converting current resources to future resources. The goal is build an organization that can challenge for championships consistently.

 

This -- we went into the deadline with the best arm and best bat available, in a situation where there were more buyers and fewer sellers than ever before, and we very clearly prioritized salary relief over all else, despite the fact that both Rios and Peavy were controllable and thus trade-able over the winter and next year, and despite the fact that we already had almost no long-term financial commitments and are a large market team capable of sustaining payrolls of $90-100m. At this point it's just very unclear where that money is going to go, as there are extremely strict caps on spending it on amateur talent and the fact that we're trading our best players means it makes little sense to spend big in free agency.

 

Financial flexibility is a great thing, but our organization needs nothing more than it needs young talent, and that financial flexibility can'y buy us much young talent under this CBA.

[Balta1701]

Have to admit i need a little review session...what's the prognosis for hopes of Brandon Jacobs in CF

 

or is he basically corner for sure

He'd need to get a lot better at reading balls off the bat.

 

That said, he might well be athletic enough to handle the spot if he was ever given a tryout there.

[Buehrle>Wood]

You should have kept reading.

 

The actuallyn should be to have a plan. I'm not sure what Hahn's is. But he's clearing money when there's a very weak FA classdon'thich was alluded to in Jim's article you keep litalent g to. There are caps on the draft and international signings. There simply is nowhere to spend all this money in the immediate term. Accepting that, and looking at our available resources, it becomes clear that we do not have the talent in-house, nor the supply in the open market to drastically improve anytime soon. If you accept that, then what we should do is what the team across town is doing - converting current resources to future resources. The goal is build an organization that can challenge for championships consistently.

Great post again.

 

 

I've always been one of JRs biggest defenders. So many over the years have called him cheap when he never actually was. But for all the reasons above I really think the plan is to drastically cut back our spendings. These moves don't make any sense otherwise. That is lowering the talent at the major league level significantly while only incrementally improving the minor league system. I hope I am wrong though. Right now it is just a waiting game until winter to see the plan.

[Balta1701]

This -- we went into the deadline with the best arm and best bat available, in a situation where there were more buyers and fewer sellers than ever before, and we very clearly prioritized salary relief over all else, despite the fact that both Rios and Peavy were controllable and thus trade-able over the winter and next year, and despite the fact that we already had almost no long-term financial commitments and are a large market team capable of sustaining payrolls of $90-100m. At this point it's just very unclear where that money is going to go, as there are extremely strict caps on spending it on amateur talent and the fact that we're trading our best players means it makes little sense to spend big in free agency.

 

Financial flexibility is a great thing, but our organization needs nothing more than it needs young talent, and that financial flexibility can'y buy us much young talent under this CBA.

But there is legitimately no obvious way that they were going to translate "Spending more money" into additional talent beyond the returns they got. There's a reason why literally zero teams did what you're insisting the Sox should have done - pick up more money for one of these guys to get a top flight prospect added...because no teams are doing that.

[greg775]

Rios has never been considered the complete clubhouse cancer and general f***bag that Guillen was though. Not really fair.

Fair enough. I mean your argument being fair enough. Rios has never been called out as being a dick like Guillen. You are right there.

 

Greg we dont care about the Royals, Royals players, KC, anything royals related on this site. The only time we care is when we face them or in the all about competition that is the AL Central. Every conversation brings in some random Royals comparison, some internal poll of the good people of whatever city you live in or where you work. No one cares.

 

I haven't been able to come up with any other player to compare Rios to. It's not often you can point to tangible signs of laziness on the field. People have asked me why I despise Rios so I answered finally. There aren't many guys with that type of reputation.

I love the one scout calling him a 5 tool player. The ship has sailed on that. Look at his career numbers.

Edited August 9, 2013 by greg775