Rios, $1M traded to Rangers

[Marty34]

You know, if the Angels chipped in a bit I might consider Pujols...

 

Thought about that, but that is a mega-monsterous deal when the guy is healthy. Would not do it.

[Balta1701]

Thought about that, but that is a mega-monsterous deal when the guy is healthy. Would not do it.

I wouldn't take him as-is, but with the amount of money we've cleared...it's closer than it was 2 days ago.

[Chisoxfn]

The way I see this offense...they're in a position where if somehow, "Everyone did what they're supposed to do" next year, including 3-4 young guys, they would be sitting there on one gaping hole and that's 1b. The OF bench is pretty bad too with D2 as the guy there, so Granderson does make some sense, but if everyone did what they're supposed to do, including Phegley, Viciedo, and Garcia, they could have a legit offense again next year if they fill the gaping hole at 1b.

I am not about to hand over the reigns to the catcher spot for next year when a guy like McCann is out there. If at the end of the year Phegley has shown signs, then sure, I might consider it, but he isn't as good enough prospect to just hand the job over to for a year. If you want to waste next years staff then thats fine and maybe that is the plan but if we all think the pitching staff is as good as it has been this year then it would be a complete atrocity to not try and rebuild this offense and it will take 3 new starters to help do it and by adding those 3 positions you aren't taking at bats away from any meaningful prospect.

[GGajewski18]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/02/2015...ree-agents.html

 

Only hitters I would consider would be Butler, Hanley and Sandoval.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

Only hitters I would consider would be Butler, Hanley and Sandoval.

Hanley?

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

Pojols? We just dumped Rios and Jake, and many here want to lose Dunn.

 

Look, if you escape a burning building, don't run back in.

[GGajewski18]

Hanley?

 

Yeah. He's having a great year but I fully expect him to sign an extension with the Dodgers

[Balta1701]

I am not about to hand over the reigns to the catcher spot for next year when a guy like McCann is out there. If at the end of the year Phegley has shown signs, then sure, I might consider it, but he isn't as good enough prospect to just hand the job over to for a year. If you want to waste next years staff then thats fine and maybe that is the plan but if we all think the pitching staff is as good as it has been this year then it would be a complete atrocity to not try and rebuild this offense and it will take 3 new starters to help do it and by adding those 3 positions you aren't taking at bats away from any meaningful prospect.

The question the Sox brass is going to have to decide is whether or not they're going to commit to the young guys we have. I can't decide that for them. Phegley showed a ton of promise in Charlotte this year, with where they're at I'd hand the position to him even if McCann is out there, but you're 100% right that they shouldn't be willing to totally waste next year's staff.

[Chisoxfn]

The question the Sox brass is going to have to decide is whether or not they're going to commit to the young guys we have. I can't decide that for them. Phegley showed a ton of promise in Charlotte this year, with where they're at I'd hand the position to him even if McCann is out there, but you're 100% right that they shouldn't be willing to totally waste next year's staff.

Ultimately that is going to be a major part in what drives Hahn's overall success. It will be his ability (and the organization's) ability to be able to decipher who has the ability and tools to ultimately succeed at the major league level and who doesn't. Its one thing to scout kids and get draft picks but the next big step is both the player development side and the major league scouting side where you ultimately determine whether a guy can / can't make it. Sox have been very successful from a pitching perspective and it seems like they may have figured out Gordon (which would be huge). In fact, as much as people complain about our current hitting coach he really did help Dunn, Rios, and Beckham.

[Balta1701]

Ultimately that is going to be a major part in what drives Hahn's overall success. It will be his ability (and the organization's) ability to be able to decipher who has the ability and tools to ultimately succeed at the major league level and who doesn't. Its one thing to scout kids and get draft picks but the next big step is both the player development side and the major league scouting side where you ultimately determine whether a guy can / can't make it. Sox have been very successful from a pitching perspective and it seems like they may have figured out Gordon (which would be huge). In fact, as much as people complain about our current hitting coach he really did help Dunn, Rios, and Beckham.

If Viciedo, Phegley, and Garcia can do what they're capable of next year, this could be a cooking offense.

 

Personally though I'm expecting all 3 of them to strugglle mightily to the point where people here want them all released by June.

[beck72]

I don't think it's a good idea to sign a top-shelf free agent until we know what holes we have to fill. I advocate nothing longer than a two-year deal this offseason.

After this disaster of a season, the sox should know what holes they have to fill. (IMO, Catcher should be a priority; 3b, and 1b). If the Sox want to sign a free agent, it'll have to be more than 2 years. When you advocate for Ethier, though, that's a commitment of 4 years. Say LA somehow throws in half his $71.5 mill. salary he's owed. That's $35+ mill. Left the sox are on the hook for. Whether that's money spent on bad contracts, or free agents, most deals will be longer than 2 years.

 

I agree the sox should look at some bad contracts. But that's probably riskier expecting those guys to live up to a bad contract/ improve poor performance, than it is to have a free agent who has been performing well, to suddenly suck for the next three years.

 

That's part of the risk the sox have to make, being in this position of having poor offensive talent. They can't just spend their way out of this mess.

[iamshack]

If Viciedo, Phegley, and Garcia can do what they're capable of next year, this could be a cooking offense.

 

Personally though I'm expecting all 3 of them to strugglle mightily to the point where people here want them all released by June.

Jeesh, give it up already. I think people are going to accept that there are different priorities now and be a little more patient. Hell, half the people won't even be watching anyway.

[LittleHurt05]

You know, if the Angels chipped in a bit I might consider Pujols...

 

If by 'a bit', you mean $150-175 million, then maybe I would agree

[Chisoxfn]

If Viciedo, Phegley, and Garcia can do what they're capable of next year, this could be a cooking offense.

 

Personally though I'm expecting all 3 of them to strugglle mightily to the point where people here want them all released by June.

If Viciedo and Phegley are hitting poorly next year, they should probably be given the boot. Or at the very least you lose your starting job. Thats the reality of this game and the professionals get paid the money they do to decide who can and who can't. You don't have the luxury of giving every single prospect that is in AAA and has a decent year 2 seasons in the majors to prove whether they can / can't hack. Given Hawks bashing of Phegley, I'm going to say the Sox dont' believe they have a catcher of the future on the roster right now. I think they have a back-up catcher and I'll give Pheg's the rest of this year to show improvements and some flashes of being an every day starter.

 

It isn't like if you sign someone like McCann a guy like Phegley (if the Sox think he deserves at bats) wouldn't get opportunities. You'd have the ability to play McCann at 1B/DH and get Pheg's the at bats anyway (while keeping McCann fresh). McCann really would be the perfect signing if he's willing to take a deal of 4 years or less (an Adam Dunn type of deal...with hopefully better results). Hell...if you added him and Morales that would be two bats you could easily plug into the lineup that would be serious upgrades (while still giving plenty of at bats to Garcia, Viciedo, etc...still having an opening for Semien to get AB's).

[greg775]

We could sign AJ for a year at catcher. What will he cost? 3 mill? That could fill that hole for one year at a very cheap cost. We already have a new rf and new ss. I fully expect we dump Alexei and move on from there. We need a 3B with some pop desperately.

Edited August 10, 2013 by greg775

[Chisoxfn]

We could sign AJ for a year at catcher. What will he cost? 3 mill? That could fill that hole for one year at a very cheap cost.

AJ will get more then that. He signed for 7.5M this past year and while he was hurt his production has been pretty good. 12 hr's and .275 average I wouldn't be surprised if the Sox looked at him, but I assume AJ would like to play on a more sure thing and wouldn't be surprised if he resigned with Texas.

[oldsox]

I think some of you are a bit ambitious thinking that McCann will be signable. Why wouldn't the Braves be very aggressive in signing him? Because they have Gattis in reserve? Maybe that's all it takes, but Braves are loaded with cash, I would guess, so I will expect them to do their best to keep McCann. They don't have anyone else in the high minors to replace him. Plus, he is a local boy and been with the org. since day 1. It would be great to get him, but my guess is that 2014 will feature Phegley and Flowers.

[Chisoxfn]

I think some of you are a bit ambitious thinking that McCann will be signable. Why wouldn't the Braves be very aggressive in signing him? Because they have Gattis in reserve? Maybe that's all it takes, but Braves are loaded with cash, I would guess, so I will expect them to do their best to keep McCann. They don't have anyone else in the high minors to replace him. Plus, he is a local boy and been with the org. since day 1. It would be great to get him, but my guess is that 2014 will feature Phegley and Flowers.

Are the Braves loaded with cash? They've made some big signings recently which didn't pay off and have always tried to keep their payroll at a reasonable level. And I'm not saying we will sign him but if i were the GM, he'd be #1 on my list.

[EvilJester99]

Seems everyone wants McCann.. does that mean everyone has already given up on Phegley??

[Balta1701]

I think some of you are a bit ambitious thinking that McCann will be signable. Why wouldn't the Braves be very aggressive in signing him? Because they have Gattis in reserve? Maybe that's all it takes, but Braves are loaded with cash, I would guess, so I will expect them to do their best to keep McCann. They don't have anyone else in the high minors to replace him. Plus, he is a local boy and been with the org. since day 1. It would be great to get him, but my guess is that 2014 will feature Phegley and Flowers.

I think the Braves would be nuts to keep McCann with Gattis around and the money they have invested in their OF.

[Balta1701]

Seems everyone wants McCann.. does that mean everyone has already given up on Phegley??

Of course Soxtalk has, Soxtalk declares guys failed after 2 weeks of slumping.

 

What really matters of course is how the org feels about these guys. We already saw them give 2+ years of struggles to Beckham and still treat him as a starter and let him grow up. Phegley showed real promise this year in Charlotte, but him struggling when he got called up was completely expected. It's up to the guys in the organization to decide whether his struggles are normal or whether they really don't think he can cut it.

 

Personally I'd be really surprised if they signed McCann. They might kick the tires on him in case the market isn't there, but someone else will offer him much better money than we should.

[Balta1701]

Jeesh, give it up already. I think people are going to accept that there are different priorities now and be a little more patient. Hell, half the people won't even be watching anyway.

How long are you willing to give Viciedo?

[Chisoxfn]

Seems everyone wants McCann.. does that mean everyone has already given up on Phegley??

Phegley has some time but he was never the type of prospect you would pencil into the catcher spot for 2 years. He was never even a top 5 prospect in our system (our system). I haven't given up on him but he certainly isn't showing a lot to like about his long-term potential. It would be easier to live with his poor approach if he was a legit defensive catcher but while he isn't a terrible defender he certainly isn't a strong defender so if he can't hit, he brings very little value.

 

If you have the opportunity to sign one of the premiere catchers in the game, I say go for it. It allows you to give Viciedo and some other guys more time to develop because you can get well above average production out of the catchers position. There are still 2 months left of the season though and Phegley will get every opportunity to develop and grow and give the organization a sense of whether he can be an every day starting catcher.

[Chisoxfn]

Of course Soxtalk has, Soxtalk declares guys failed after 2 weeks of slumping.

 

What really matters of course is how the org feels about these guys. We already saw them give 2+ years of struggles to Beckham and still treat him as a starter and let him grow up. Phegley showed real promise this year in Charlotte, but him struggling when he got called up was completely expected. It's up to the guys in the organization to decide whether his struggles are normal or whether they really don't think he can cut it.

 

Personally I'd be really surprised if they signed McCann. They might kick the tires on him in case the market isn't there, but someone else will offer him much better money than we should.

Beckham crushed the ball at the major league level for half a season, was a high 1st round draft pick, tore up the minors, and was one of the best prospects in all of baseball. You will never hear anyone describe Phegley as anything of the sort. Major difference. Oh and Beckham also plays well above average defense at 2B so even if his bat was struggling, you got value on the other side of the ball.

 

Viciedo was given a pretty big contract out of cuba, hit at all levels (despite being young for his age) and has shown plus offensive tools and in streaks has been a hell of a productive player. You can see the potential. Even Viciedo is to the point that next year is his last year with the Sox to prove himself. If he doesn't take big steps forward, he's done with our club and can go somewhere else.

 

Phegley, too his credit has had to overcome a lot of issues, and that makes it harder to judge him, but he had one .700 OPS season or better in the minors entering this year and in almost a full season at AAA last year (where he was age appropriate) he put up a .680 OPS. He doesn't bring excellent defensive tools to the equation (although to his credit he's made himself a much better defensive player then anyone thought he would be coming out of college). There is nothing about his past production or to be frank his toolset which would make me want to hand him a starting job next year (unless of course he makes progress in his time at the major league level). And I'm not writing him off in 22 major league games, but he wasn't going to get near as long of a rope based upon his performance in the minors and overall tools. By the end of the year he'll likely have 50-60 games under his belt and if he's still hitting .210 with a poor approach and what looks to be a slow bat, then if I were the GM, I'd be looking for someone else to be our catcher.

 

Tyler Flowers....dude is hitting under .200 in a career 186 major league games and has shown almost no improvements at the plate. Again, what makes me as an organization want to give him another year? Nothing.

 

The difference in career offensive performance between Viciedo and Flowers / Phegley (at the major league level) has been pretty drastic. In FLowers case, he had some great minor league production and a better offensive tool-set (e.g., good patience and tons of power) which led me to be more willing to be patient. For all the b****ing about Viciedo, he put up a .744 OPS last year (w/25 hr's). It is scary how his power production has subsided this year though. Two weeks ago I was talking about the progress Dayan has made but boy he is having a hard time getting the most out of his tools at the plate right now. However, the 25 hr's in the majors at 23, along with the minor league production (and of course tools...he's got a quick ass bat), make me willing to be more patient with him. His upside is that of an above average offensive player.

 

I don't see Josh Phegley's upside of being an above average starting catcher. His upside is an average to slightly below average all around catcher (at best...if he completely maximized his skill-set, which is rare) and his floor is a whole lot worse, imo. His most likely scenario (in my opinion) is that of a backup catcher / career AAAA er.

[Balta1701]

Phegley has some time but he was never the type of prospect you would pencil into the catcher spot for 2 years. He was never even a top 5 prospect in our system (our system). I haven't given up on him but he certainly isn't showing a lot to like about his long-term potential. It would be easier to live with his poor approach if he was a legit defensive catcher but while he isn't a terrible defender he certainly isn't a strong defender so if he can't hit, he brings very little value.

 

If you have the opportunity to sign one of the premiere catchers in the game, I say go for it. It allows you to give Viciedo and some other guys more time to develop because you can get well above average production out of the catchers position. There are still 2 months left of the season though and Phegley will get every opportunity to develop and grow and give the organization a sense of whether he can be an every day starting catcher.

See, this is exactly what I mean about a lack of patience. Phegley showed at Charlotte this year that he has the talent to be a solid run producer, but we called him up after 3 months of solid hitting out of his entire minor league career. Declaring that he "isn't showing a lot to like about his long-term potential" is just wrong. If he was still down in Charlotte until July 31, people would have been begging for him to be up for another month.

 

He's in a slump now in his 2nd month in the big leagues. Saying things like "he isn't showing a lot to like about his long term potential" is what I keep harping about, it's the exact opposite of what we should be doing. We shouldn't have even called him up if we're just going to toss him aside after 3 months; we'd have been better off letting him rake at Charlotte and then trading him in the offseason.