Rios, $1M traded to Rangers

[Eminor3rd]

I just don't see us or get the point of us trading Rios.

 

The point is simple: his value will never be higher and the team is currently among the worst 5 in baseball. Nearly all of the big contracts for this current 34-52 team expire over the next year or two, giving the franchise a great opportunity for a fresh start in 2015 if they use the next season and a half to collect core-type, cost-controlled talent to develop or trade later.

 

What is the point of KEEPING Rios?

[Jake]

There is some chance you could get similar production for similar money in FA. This means you could get Rios-like production AND prospects for $13 million instead of just Rios.

[southsider2k5]

The point is simple: his value will never be higher and the team is currently among the worst 5 in baseball. Nearly all of the big contracts for this current 34-52 team expire over the next year or two, giving the franchise a great opportunity for a fresh start in 2015 if they use the next season and a half to collect core-type, cost-controlled talent to develop or trade later.

 

What is the point of KEEPING Rios?

 

This is now very debatable with his big slump lately.

[Buehrle>Wood]

The point is simple: his value will never be higher and the team is currently among the worst 5 in baseball. Nearly all of the big contracts for this current 34-52 team expire over the next year or two, giving the franchise a great opportunity for a fresh start in 2015 if they use the next season and a half to collect core-type, cost-controlled talent to develop or trade later.

 

What is the point of KEEPING Rios?

We need to keep our best offensive player to be competent for next year. I'm surprised so many here think what you posted is the plan. It would shock me given the current admin.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Buehrle>Wood

[Dick Allen]

The point is simple: his value will never be higher and the team is currently among the worst 5 in baseball. Nearly all of the big contracts for this current 34-52 team expire over the next year or two, giving the franchise a great opportunity for a fresh start in 2015 if they use the next season and a half to collect core-type, cost-controlled talent to develop or trade later.

 

What is the point of KEEPING Rios?

If 2014 is a year the Sox are trying to win, his 1.5-2.0 WAR average he has had the past several years in a White Sox uniform is probably better than anything you will get trading him.

 

It all depends on what teams are willing to give up for him.

[Eminor3rd]

This is now very debatable with his big slump lately.

 

A rebound over the next couple weeks would help, but realistically, teams need to be making these decisions now, so a rebound in August or September isn't likely to matter. They've got to rely on their scouts and the season average to evaluate his talent going forward. They know that slumps are slumps, I think.

 

If he has better year next year, maybe his value is higher if the market conditions are better. OF is pretty thin right now, though.

[Princess Dye]

There's an argument for keeping Rios.

 

(1) we all know the return isnt exactly going to be some stellar prospect

 

(2) he has potential to deliver all-star RF seasons, and will continue having that potential

 

(3) the Sox have to try to win most years, and will try next year. They need to win to keep up attendance. They will likely try to win in 1 year's time, at which point Rios can still be here doing things for you to that end.

 

 

 

Someone has to play RF and he's doing that well(well, offense and arm being the main consideration there). If he were going to deliver pure gold in a prospect haul it'd be a different story.

 

Basically people here freak out that he will return to being awful, and cant wait to get rid of him. It's very possible to get rid of him and have that be a very bad baseball move, you know. Based on what he makes, teams wont be lining up with their best stuff (unless we want to pay). Further - just because some years his bat is a noodle, and others it's all-star level........it doesnt make him someone to dump. It still makes him, rare, in a sense. In a good way. There are teams that want that, but the money will be what stops a great deal from happening for us.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Jose Paniagua

[Eminor3rd]

We need to keep our best offensive player to be competent for next year. I'm surprised so many here think what you posted is the plan. It would shock me given the current admin.

 

If 2014 is a year the Sox are trying to win, his 1.5-2.0 WAR average he has had the past several years in a White Sox uniform is probably better than anything you will get trading him.

 

It all depends on what teams are willing to give up for him.

 

The team is NOT competent, though. It's not even CLOSE to competent. Our winning percentage is below .400. I'm not saying that tanking is the key, but do you really think it makes sense to keep him and add 2-3 more wins to next year's team?

[Dick Allen]

The team is NOT competent, though. It's not even CLOSE to competent. Our winning percentage is below .400. I'm not saying that tanking is the key, but do you really think it makes sense to keep him and add 2-3 more wins to next year's team?

They have some pitching. If they could get just some hitting, it could be a totally different story. BTW, I read the guy who was really being scouted yesterday from the White Sox was Santiago

[Eminor3rd]

There's an argument for keeping Rios.

 

(1) we all know the return isnt exactly going to be some stellar prospect

 

(2) he has potential to deliver all-star RF seasons, and will continue having that potential

 

(3) the Sox have to try to win most years, and will try next year. They need to win to keep up attendance. They will likely try to win in 1 year's time, at which point Rios can still be here doing things for you to that end.

 

 

 

Someone has to play RF and he's doing that well(well, offense and arm being the main consideration there). If he were going to deliver pure gold in a prospect haul it'd be a different story.

 

Basically people here freak out that he will return to being awful, and cant wait to get rid of him. It's very possible to get rid of him and have that be a very bad baseball move, you know. Based on what he makes, teams wont be lining up with their best stuff (unless we want to pay). Further - just because some years his bat is a noodle, and others it's all-star level........it doesnt make him someone to dump. It still makes him, rare, in a sense. In a good way. There are teams that want that, but the money will be what stops a great deal from happening for us.

 

I don't know that it's a given that he won't bring back a good prospect. Certainly, if he won't then we shouldn't trade him. Part of what I'm arguing is that the conditions are right for him to bring back a good prospect.

 

Secondly, regarding attendance. There is no attendance to "keep up" because there is no winning to "keep up." No one is coming to games to see this current bad team, and so it makes no sense to expect that keeping the same set of players will somehow yield remarkably different results next year. Even with regression, can you really expect more than a 75-80 win team in the best case scenario next year? Remember how bad attendance was last year when they won 85?

 

What they can't afford to do is continue beating this dead horse. They've got an opportunity to do a relatively quick rebuild to minimize this losing period, it makes no sense to continue throwing the same s*** at a wall and deal with the horrible attendance for years to come.

[Buehrle>Wood]

The team is NOT competent, though. It's not even CLOSE to competent. Our winning percentage is below .400. I'm not saying that tanking is the key, but do you really think it makes sense to keep him and add 2-3 more wins to next year's team?

Im not saying we are competent. I'm saying I fully expect the goal will be to get competent. Trading Rios fir a middle level prospect will shock me in that regard.

[Baron]

Im not saying we are competent. I'm saying I fully expect the goal will be to get competent. Trading Rios fir a middle level prospect will shock me in that regard.

 

Agreed....I think a mid level plus another low A ball prospect is all we can expect. If that ends up being the case I hope he stays.

[witesoxfan]

I think any expectations for the next 3+ weeks can be thrown out the window because we have absolutely no idea what the new front office is going to do.

[Eminor3rd]

They have some pitching. If they could get just some hitting, it could be a totally different story. BTW, I read the guy who was really being scouted yesterday from the White Sox was Santiago

 

I guess I just don't see the team as a piece or two away. The pitching will regress, too. While the hitting/defense shouldn't be THIS bad, the pitching shouldn't be THIS good. We've gotten a ton out of Axelrod, for example. And you still don't have anyone that can get on base. I think Konerko retires. You've still got a lot of money tied up in Dunn that you can't re-allocate, an Rios too if we keep him. If we had $40-50m to add to payroll, I'd agree, but I guess we just don't agree on what this group is capable of.

 

Also, I'm not talking about tearing it down completely, I'm just talking about punting 2014. All that good pitching will still be here in 2015, with the exception of Peavy (who could still be here but I'd like to trade as well). I think that Rios' return would have more 2015 value than Rios, AND you get to reallocate his salary.

[Eminor3rd]

Im not saying we are competent. I'm saying I fully expect the goal will be to get competent. Trading Rios fir a middle level prospect will shock me in that regard.

 

So I'm arguing what we SHOULD do, and you're arguing what you think we WILL do? Sorry if I misunderstood.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I realize we aren't competing this year. But Rios still has another year. Even if I wish they would, the Sox arent going into complete firesale mode.

 

 

I am not so sure anymore. Obviously, the Sox have pitching and that is different than most teams that have to blow it up. I think Hahn has complete autonomy in this and knows that he cannot continue to patch it together. Crain and Thornton will definitely go. Anyone else that he can get value for I believe will be gone as well. He is not going to trade players under contract for a bad deal because that would be stupid but i do believe that everyone is truly available.

[Baron]

I guess I just don't see the team as a piece or two away. The pitching will regress, too. While the hitting/defense shouldn't be THIS bad, the pitching shouldn't be THIS good. We've gotten a ton out of Axelrod, for example. And you still don't have anyone that can get on base. I think Konerko retires. You've still got a lot of money tied up in Dunn that you can't re-allocate, an Rios too if we keep him. If we had $40-50m to add to payroll, I'd agree, but I guess we just don't agree on what this group is capable of.

 

Also, I'm not talking about tearing it down completely, I'm just talking about punting 2014. All that good pitching will still be here in 2015, with the exception of Peavy (who could still be here but I'd like to trade as well). I think that Rios' return would have more 2015 value than Rios, AND you get to reallocate his salary.

 

Assumption and no one ever said this team was a piece or two away.

[Eminor3rd]

Assumption and no one ever said this team was a piece or two away.

 

Of course it's an assumption, no can actually predict the future. But anytime you see an exceptional performance, whether very good or very bad, it is most likely that future performance will regress toward average.

 

If the team isn't a piece or two away, how do you expect to add to it in the offseason such that it has the chance to win and increase attendance in 2014?

[Baron]

Of course it's an assumption, no can actually predict the future. But anytime you see an exceptional performance, whether very good or very bad, it is most likely that future performance will regress toward average.

 

If the team isn't a piece or two away, how do you expect to add to it in the offseason such that it has the chance to win and increase attendance in 2014?

 

Sorry but I hate absolute statements in sports and that sounded like one of them.

 

I never said any of the last statement. All I said was trading Rios for marginal prospects which I think is probably what is being offered is pointless. I would rather keep him. As for money...we are going to be getting some relief very soon. So that really isnt an excuse.

[Balta1701]

Of course it's an assumption, no can actually predict the future. But anytime you see an exceptional performance, whether very good or very bad, it is most likely that future performance will regress toward average.

 

If the team isn't a piece or two away, how do you expect to add to it in the offseason such that it has the chance to win and increase attendance in 2014?

I think this team could be a piece or two away...but it requires guys they have right now like Phegley and Viciedo to turn into useful pieces by next year.

[Eminor3rd]

Sorry but I hate absolute statements in sports and that sounded like one of them.

 

I never said any of the last statement. All I said was trading Rios for marginal prospects which I think is probably what is being offered is pointless. I would rather keep him. As for money...we are going to be getting some relief very soon. So that really isnt an excuse.

 

Yeah, I mean I don't want to dump him for nothing, I agree there. But I do think that there's a decent chance the Pirates would give up enough value that, combined with what can be added by reallocating his salary, it would have more 2015 value than his age 35 season will.

[harfman77]

Next year is pretty much a lost cause as well. There just is not enough offensive talent on this team to compete. Rios is not a leader, he is a good player but is very influenced by his environment and would definitely benefit from being a guy outside of the spotlight. PK is gone at the end of the year. Just too many holes to fill and not enough players to fill them.

 

I think they should move Peavy, Santiago, Rios, Crain, Reed, De Aza and Beckham if they can get an adequate return. Re-sign Gavin to an incentive laden contract as he sits next year, sign Corey Hart to a 1 year deal, and try out guys on the mound to see what you have. In 2015 you start spending to fill holes on offense and by 2016 the farm should be producing position player talent to go with the pitching that will still be in place.

[Baron]

Next year is pretty much a lost cause as well. There just is not enough offensive talent on this team to compete. Rios is not a leader, he is a good player but is very influenced by his environment and would definitely benefit from being a guy outside of the spotlight. PK is gone at the end of the year. Just too many holes to fill and not enough players to fill them.

 

I think they should move Peavy, Santiago, Rios, Crain, Reed, De Aza and Beckham if they can get an adequate return. Re-sign Gavin to an incentive laden contract as he sits next year, sign Corey Hart to a 1 year deal, and try out guys on the mound to see what you have. In 2015 you start spending to fill holes on offense and by 2016 the farm should be producing position player talent to go with the pitching that will still be in place.

 

 

[Buehrle>Wood]

Trading Santiago would be just awful.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Trading Santiago would be just awful.

 

 

I like Santiago quite a bit. However, if they got a cost controlled offensive player/offensive players that would be starters for years to come, you'd have to consider it.