Balta1701 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 10:31 AM) Diminishing skills. That 19/23 in stolen bases this year clearly indicates that he's lost a step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 09:39 AM) SIGH. Then why did Alex Rios improve so much at age 31 and 32 when he had a horrible season at age 30 and 28? He peaked. (Look at his offensive numbers.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 10:44 AM) He peaked. (Look at his offensive numbers.) Not possible. You've clearly asserted that everyone at age 31 is in horrible decline and should be dumped immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (mike65 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 01:41 PM) Cardinal fan, again. Buster Olney tweeted yesterday that the Cardinals and Indians were again discussing Asdrubal Cabrera. While I am sure that such discussions have taken place, I think the results will be like last winter. The Indians still want one of the Cardinal good young pitchers - Wacha, Miller, Rosenthal, or Martinez - and I am pretty sure the Cardinals will not do that. All roads lead back to the White Sox, IMO. The question is what Hahn would want in return? I have tried to play GM with my neighbor who is a lifelong White Sox fan. Nothing that I have suggested pleases him so I feel for Mozeliak - Hahn. I did think that the White Sox would have gotten slightly more for Thornton so now I am really confused. I have thought that Wong + one (lower level) should do it but no according to my neighbor. What say all of you? One guy the Sox could like going forward is James Ramsey, your 1st rd pick last year. the sox have "toolsy " OFer prospects and need a consistent, solid guy with upside. Him, along with a decent arm high A, see some AA by years end, top 10-15 in your system would be around a solid return. If the sox can't one top prospect, 2 decent ones would be about right. The price might go up seeing how Alexei could be a good fit for Pittsburgh and the Reds as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (beck72 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 08:45 AM) One guy the Sox could like going forward is James Ramsey, your 1st rd pick last year. the sox have "toolsy " OFer prospects and need a consistent, solid guy with upside. Him, along with a decent arm high A, see some AA by years end, top 10-15 in your system would be around a solid return. If the sox can't one top prospect, 2 decent ones would be about right. The price might go up seeing how Alexei could be a good fit for Pittsburgh and the Reds as well. To get Ramsay, they're going to have to send either money or DeAza/Jones/Reed (if not Reed, probably both Jones and DeAza) to the Cardinals as well. Edited July 13, 2013 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (beck72 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 10:45 AM) One guy the Sox could like going forward is James Ramsey, your 1st rd pick last year. the sox have "toolsy " OFer prospects and need a consistent, solid guy with upside. Him, along with a decent arm high A, see some AA by years end, top 10-15 in your system would be around a solid return. If the sox can't one top prospect, 2 decent ones would be about right. The price might go up seeing how Alexei could be a good fit for Pittsburgh and the Reds as well. If all 3 NL Central teams could use a shortstop upgrade, thats quite good for the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 08:46 AM) If all 3 NL Central teams could use a shortstop upgrade, thats quite good for the Sox. Except Zack Cozart is still considered their future. So count the Reds out of that. And Mercer just had the game winning hit last night and has done well SO FAR from an offensive standpoint. Kozma's sub 600 OPS stands out as the sore thumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 03:49 PM) Except Zack Cozart is still considered their future. So count the Reds out of that. And Mercer just had the game winning hit last night and has done well SO FAR from an offensive standpoint. Kozma's sub 600 OPS stands out as the sore thumb. Mercer had been awful lately and doesn't project as their long term answer there. HEading into the trade deadline, that's good for the Sox. the Pirates need to add some bats, ESP. With their recent fades so they can make the playoffs. If Alexei is the best available SS, he makes sense for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (beck72 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 11:01 AM) Mercer had been awful lately and doesn't project as their long term answer there. HEading into the trade deadline, that's good for the Sox. the Pirates need to add some bats, ESP. With their recent fades so they can make the playoffs. If Alexei is the best available SS, he makes sense for them. Serious Q: if the Pirates wanted to add a bat, what would be the ideal spot for them to do so at? What position do they have where they're weak and they don't have a young kid in AAA ready to take over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShandyMan Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 I'd love to see us match up with STL in a Alexei trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 04:05 PM) Serious Q: if the Pirates wanted to add a bat, what would be the ideal spot for them to do so at? What position do they have where they're weak and they don't have a young kid in AAA ready to take over? I do know they have serious power issues. Only Alvarez at 3b has more than 10 hrs. Not sure who they have at 1b but Dunn? Fans will demand a big bat this deadline. rios doesn't seem a good fit with their young OF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 13, 2013 Author Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (mike65 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 08:41 AM) Cardinal fan, again. Buster Olney tweeted yesterday that the Cardinals and Indians were again discussing Asdrubal Cabrera. While I am sure that such discussions have taken place, I think the results will be like last winter. The Indians still want one of the Cardinal good young pitchers - Wacha, Miller, Rosenthal, or Martinez - and I am pretty sure the Cardinals will not do that. All roads lead back to the White Sox, IMO. The question is what Hahn would want in return? I have tried to play GM with my neighbor who is a lifelong White Sox fan. Nothing that I have suggested pleases him so I feel for Mozeliak - Hahn. I did think that the White Sox would have gotten slightly more for Thornton so now I am really confused. I have thought that Wong + one (lower level) should do it but no according to my neighbor. What say all of you? I think Wong would be plenty, honestly. My guess is that Hahn is asking for Wong and being told no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (beck72 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 11:14 AM) I do know they have serious power issues. Only Alvarez at 3b has more than 10 hrs. Not sure who they have at 1b but Dunn? Fans will demand a big bat this deadline. rios doesn't seem a good fit with their young OF. It looks like they've been platooning Garrett Jones and Gaby Sanchez at 1b. Sanchez had a good start to the season but his numbers now look pretty rotten. That does look like the position where they could use a bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 09:49 AM) Except Zack Cozart is still considered their future. So count the Reds out of that. And Mercer just had the game winning hit last night and has done well SO FAR from an offensive standpoint. Kozma's sub 600 OPS stands out as the sore thumb. Unfortuantely for the Sox, Dusty Baker is not in charge of personnel, because he would much prefer a "veteran" Ramirez over young Cozart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 10:17 AM) It looks like they've been platooning Garrett Jones and Gaby Sanchez at 1b. Sanchez had a good start to the season but his numbers now look pretty rotten. That does look like the position where they could use a bat. Pittsburgh uses a combination of Garrett Jones, Travis Snider, Jose Tabata, and Gaby Sanchez for 1B/RF. They use Mercer/Barmes at SS. Those are the spots to upgrade. They could find a 1B or RF. Rios is a perfect fit for them because it allows them to just play Sanchez/Jones at 1B. Obviously they'd never take on this much money but if they had Dunn at 1B and Rios is RF they'd be the favorites in the national league. McCutchen and Marte are very exciting players. However, Alvarez is the only consistent power threat on their team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 04:17 PM) It looks like they've been platooning Garrett Jones and Gaby Sanchez at 1b. Sanchez had a good start to the season but his numbers now look pretty rotten. That does look like the position where they could use a bat. Ken Rosenthal said back on June 30 that Rios could be a great get for the Pirates, as they had the lowest OPS in the NL there. But Tabata would seem to be the future there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (beck72 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 09:32 AM) Ken Rosenthal said back on June 30 that Rios could be a great get for the Pirates, as they had the lowest OPS in the NL there. But Tabata would seem to be the future there. If they want to ensure themselves of not sliding back in the pack and possibly missing a WC spot, they would be wise to take Rios and Ramirez. That said, they're not the Angels/Dodgers/Giants/Yankees/Rangers/Red Sox. They can't just assume $50 milllion in contracts and "easily" give away prime prospects. I do think getting back Tabata (not Snider) and Mercer (to hold SS down for a year) would be fair. We might have to eat some salary or send another piece, like DeAza to be their 4th OF (and he has more homers than McCutchen/Marte). However, the other side of it is trading them to the big market teams that don't need to be so concerned with taking on additional payroll....we can theoretically extort them for more than the Pirates, who will drive a harder bargain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (beck72 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 10:32 AM) Ken Rosenthal said back on June 30 that Rios could be a great get for the Pirates, as they had the lowest OPS in the NL there. But Tabata would seem to be the future there. If I were to trade Rios to the Pirates, I think a package of Dickerson, Kingham and Herrera would do well for both teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 10:43 AM) If they want to ensure themselves of not sliding back in the pack and possibly missing a WC spot, they would be wise to take Rios and Ramirez. That said, they're not the Angels/Dodgers/Giants/Yankees/Rangers/Red Sox. They can't just assume $50 milllion in contracts and "easily" give away prime prospects. I do think getting back Tabata (not Snider) and Mercer (to hold SS down for a year) would be fair. We might have to eat some salary or send another piece, like DeAza to be their 4th OF (and he has more homers than McCutchen/Marte). However, the other side of it is trading them to the big market teams that don't need to be so concerned with taking on additional payroll....we can theoretically extort them for more than the Pirates, who will drive a harder bargain. Is Rios/Ramirez really that much of an upgrade over Tabata/Mercer right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 10:53 AM) Is Rios/Ramirez really that much of an upgrade over Tabata/Mercer right now? Absolutely. Rios is a huge upgrade. He adds another bat to the middle of that lineup and he is a much better OF than Tabata. Ramirez is a lot better defensively than Mercer and is a much better offensive player than Barmes. I think they would be betting on Ramirez to hit like he did in prior years. I would think that Pittsburgh would be much more interested in Rios than Ramirez though. They don't need Ramirez for the next 3 seasons. They do have Alen Hanson in the minor leagues and Mercer is fine for now. Rios would be a big upgrade though. I would like to see Tabata as part of the package coming back to the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Rios brings a all 5 tools to the Pirates line up. Alexei brings more than what they currently have. Both would be huge upgrades to that Pirates offense and defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 If the Cardinals are looking at Alexei, and get him, and the Pirates miss out on him, and they do another late season fade, I think Pitt fans will go crazy. Not only can they improve their team, but they can potentially keep the Cards from improving. The Pirates would seemingly give the sox the biggest return for Alexei. Mercer also has been playing 2b, which has been another weak spot for Pitt. as well. They can keep him-even though he's had like 1 XBH the last month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (beck72 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 01:31 PM) If the Cardinals are looking at Alexei, and get him, and the Pirates miss out on him, and they do another late season fade, I think Pitt fans will go crazy. Not only can they improve their team, but they can potentially keep the Cards from improving. The Pirates would seemingly give the sox the biggest return for Alexei. Mercer also has been playing 2b, which has been another weak spot for Pitt. as well. They can keep him-even though he's had like 1 XBH the last month. I disagree. I just spent a week in Pittsburgh. Most of their fans don't want to trade anything of value to get anyone. Not even Kingham, Josh Bell, or Hanson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 07:39 PM) I disagree. I just spent a week in Pittsburgh. Most of their fans don't want to trade anything of value to get anyone. Not even Kingham, Josh Bell, or Hanson. Huntington has to add the biggest impact bat he can find this deadline. It's what playoff teams do-they pay the price in terms of prospects to fix weaknesses by the trade deadline. Sports radio fans may not want to give up much. But GM's who want to keep their jobs do-especially when the Pirates have faded in the 2nd half of two straight seasons. Its a lot easier defending moves you've made and didn't pan out, than to stand pat and defend not making moves. Watching a team that hasn't been .500 in 20 years fail once again, or watching a division foe like the Cards or Reds improve, while you did little, would mean Huntington answering questions all offseason. The Pirates should be making moves to win a world series, and not just be happy to be over .500. Whether its at SS, 1b, C, or RF, the Pirates should ID what spots thy need the most help to win and overpay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 02:39 PM) Then why did Alex Rios improve so much at age 31 and 32 when he had a horrible season at age 30 and 28? Rios' improvements had everything to do with mechanical adjustments at the plate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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