Managing a Rebuilding Team Wouldn't Scare Ventura

[caulfield12]

I'm not sure if he's going to be pitching 12 months from now, yet

 

 

Yeah, depending on the recommendations of 2-3 medical experts in the sports surgery field (and ptac)....if there was no possibility of coming back next year, it would be better to wait until 2015.

Edited July 5, 2013 by caulfield12

[fathom]

Based on the seasons they're having, McCann/Utley/Morales will almost definitely be trying to get multi-year deals. Utley seems like a lock for the Dodgers, in my opinion. Granderson's the only one that might take a 1-yr deal to try and raise his stock again.

[southsider2k5]

And Peavy, if he can stay healthy and we time it right.

 

Maybe we can also bring back Gavin Floyd and flip him (via waivers) in August if he's not ready before July 31st.

 

You talking about 2014?

[Soxfest]

Dayan moving to 1st is a no brainer. I have said this all year long after PK is gone.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Soxfest

[witesoxfan]

I'm not crazy about a guy with a career OPS of .714 playing 1B. I like Viciedo and think he can be a good hitter at some point, and there's no reason to get rid of him heading into next year, but he's walking on thin ice.

[caulfield12]

Based on the seasons they're having, McCann/Utley/Morales will almost definitely be trying to get multi-year deals. Utley seems like a lock for the Dodgers, in my opinion. Granderson's the only one that might take a 1-yr deal to try and raise his stock again.

 

 

With their new t.v. deal, the Phillies are talking about trying to keep both Lee and Utley going forward.

[caulfield12]

We should go after Brian Wilson to replace Crain (and add some veteran stability, flip possibilities in 2014) and Nelson Cruz to replace Rios if the price falls low enough...of course, you always run the risk he get suspended next year

 

 

Olney's Latest: Biogenesis, Utley, Wilson, Garza

By Steve Adams [July 5 at 10:54am CST]

In his latest column (Insider subscription required and recommended), ESPN's Buster Olney writes that Nelson Cruz is among the players whose free agent stock could be severely impacted by the Biogenesis scandal. If Cruz is cleared of any wrongdoing by that time he will be fine, but if discipline has yet to be handed out, or he receives a suspension near the end of the season, teams will be wary. Cruz's case could be further complicated if the Rangers make him a qualifying offer. Here are a few of the highlights from Olney's excellent piece...

 

The Blue Jays are looking for upgrades in their rotation and at second base, and they will be interested in Chase Utley should the Phillies make him available.

 

Former Giants closer Brian Wilson is working out in Hawaii and could pitch for teams later this month or in early August.

 

The Cubs are "making progress" in trade negotiations surrounding Matt Garza, and they're actively talking with the Rangers, Red Sox, Blue Jays, Indians and Dodgers. They may also still be involved in talks with the Orioles as well as other NL West teams.

 

Olney also spoke with his colleague Jayson Stark on today's Baseball Tonight podcast, and they discussed the impact of Biogenesis on pennant races in addition to discussing the upcoming trade deadline (Biogenesis talk begins immediately; trade discussions begin shortly after the 11:00 mark).

 

Olney said he'd be "shocked" if Garza was still on the Cubs by the All-Star break, but Stark hears that the Cubs may prefer to wait for a team to meet their price, even if it means waiting until the end of July. Stark and Olney agree that Garza will have the highest price tag of any player on the trade market.

 

The Dodgers, Rangers and Rockies are the three teams that are still in the mix on Ricky Nolasco, while the other formerly interested parties are "on the periphery" according to Stark.

[Eminor3rd]

Then sign Granderson, Morales, Utley and McCann.

 

BOOM, steak dinner!

 

C McCann

1B Morales

2B Utley

SS Beckham

3B Gillaspie

LF Viciedo

CF Granderson

RF Rios (if he's not traded)

DH Dunn

 

Instantly competitive team, lol.

 

Even then, you have to worry about Viciedo, Beckham's defense at SS and Conor repeating his 2012 performance (essentially being a 675-725 OPS type of player).

 

All of those players are seriously injury prone and declining. That team could win, yes, if nothing goes wrong. But it could just as easily, possibly more likely, fail completely and then the franchise would be ruined for the next 4 years. THEN we'd be talking about Cubs/Astros rebuild where you're a disaster for 5 years while you eat bad contracts for useless players and maybe the team goes bankrupt from absolutely no one coming to games for an extended period of time.

 

We have to do this right. We have to be patient. It will only be a year or two at this point.

[caulfield12]

All of those players are seriously injury prone and declining. That team could win, yes, if nothing goes wrong. But it could just as easily, possibly more likely, fail completely and then the franchise would be ruined for the next 4 years. THEN we'd be talking about Cubs/Astros rebuild where you're a disaster for 5 years while you eat bad contracts for useless players and maybe the team goes bankrupt from absolutely no one coming to games for an extended period of time.

 

We have to do this right. We have to be patient. It will only be a year or two at this point.

 

 

And one thing has definitely been proven THIS year, that's adding the super contracts like Greinke and Hamilton aren't the answer, either.

 

Greinke's entire reputation is based on "potential" and the 2009 season. Other than that, he hasn't been close to an elite pitcher meriting the kind of contract he received. (Not unlike the days of yore when they gave Kevin Brown, Jason Schmidt, Chan Ho Park and Darren Dreifort millions for doing nothing).

[Dick Allen]

This exact strategy is about to get Jack Z fired this offseason.

 

No one is buying tickets now because the team sucks. Jason Bay isn't going to bring them back. The Sox need to get good as soon as possible to bring ticket sales back. Giving at bats to old, bad players instead of developing young, high-upside players will only slow this process down. No one will come see a 65 win team just like no one will come see a 70 win team just like no one will come see a 75 win team.

BS.

Jack failed with Smoak and Montero and Ackley. Bay was a guy who he brought in for close to the minimum. The guy had to make the team in spring training. The other old guy he brought in this year, Ibanez is doing better than any of them.

 

 

Will the article put an end to the erroneous speculation on Soxtalk that Ventura doesn't want to manage because he doesn't have a fit when things go wrong?

Edited July 5, 2013 by Dick Allen

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

And one thing has definitely been proven THIS year, that's adding the super contracts like Greinke and Hamilton aren't the answer, either.

 

Greinke's entire reputation is based on "potential" and the 2009 season. Other than that, he hasn't been close to an elite pitcher meriting the kind of contract he received. (Not unlike the days of yore when they gave Kevin Brown, Jason Schmidt, Chan Ho Park and Darren Dreifort millions for doing nothing).

That's why the upcoming trade deadline is so important to all us fanatics. Everyone knows that signing a big name free agent will not happen. It's counterproductive. If we can all agree that Peavy and Rios have adequate contracts for their skill set/production, what sense does it make to trade them for what would surely be guys who won't live up to their contracts who most likely will be older than either one of them and cost more.

 

It's exactly why I was saying that if it come down to it I'd rather Hahn eat salary to get the player he wants at the deadline rather than pay a much higher price for old, injury prone, over-hyped , free agents who will be paid based upon past performances that never helped you.

[TaylorStSox]

Kevin Brown did nothing?

[kitekrazy]

I don't get this Granderson thing. He's a super nice guy, I understand, but he's a defensive liability in CF, he strikes out nigh 200 times a year at this point, he can only hit righties, he's going to require an expensive multi-year deal, and he would block most of our best prospects from playing CF at the ML level. It's a bad fit.

 

I think he will the biggest free agent risk out there. I don't see him putting up great numbers in a different line up to justify pay vs. performance.

 

[caulfield12]

Kevin Brown did nothing?

 

 

His Dodgers' career, overall, was a disappointment. I think that's fair to say.

[Kyyle23]

His Dodgers' career, overall, was a disappointment. I think that's fair to say.

 

I think you should take another look at his numbers with the dodgers.

[caulfield12]

I think you should take another look at his numbers with the dodgers.

 

 

He was very good for 3 years. He also made only 29 starts over a two year period due to injuries.

 

19 starts in one season, 10 in another.

 

Well, better than Jake Peavy, that's for sure.

Edited July 5, 2013 by caulfield12

[Kyyle23]

He was very good for 3 years. He also made only 29 starts over a two year period due to injuries.

 

He was only there for 5 years, and 4 out of the 5 years he posted a sub 3.00 ERA, 3 out of the 5 years he pitched over 210 innings, he struck out +200 twice, his WHIP was good except for his year when he pitched only 63 innings.

 

He did very well as a dodger. He was a disappointment as a Yankee, not a dodger

[caulfield12]

He was only there for 5 years, and 4 out of the 5 years he posted a sub 3.00 ERA, 3 out of the 5 years he pitched over 210 innings, he struck out +200 twice, his WHIP was good except for his year when he pitched only 63 innings.

 

He did very well as a dodger. He was a disappointment as a Yankee, not a dodger

 

 

If a pitcher missing 59% of his starts over a two year period constitutes "very well."

 

I know, I know....someone will throw some WAR or fWAR stat that will say Chris Sales' entire contract of $30 million is being justified by 2013.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

If a pitcher missing 59% of his starts over a two year period constitutes "very well."

 

I know, I know....someone will throw some WAR or fWAR stat that will say Chris Sales' entire contract of $30 million is being justified by 2013.

 

Well I guess those 3 other dominant seasons where he made 100 percent of his starts and completely dominated dont count

[Jake]

Based on the seasons they're having, McCann/Utley/Morales will almost definitely be trying to get multi-year deals. Utley seems like a lock for the Dodgers, in my opinion. Granderson's the only one that might take a 1-yr deal to try and raise his stock again.

 

Are we not allowed to give out multi-year deals?

 

I'd like to lock up one of Morales/Pence/Choo to about a 3 year deal. Signing two (would have to Morales + another) might be a stretch, but we'll have the money. Will be interesting to see how the market goes.

 

I'm not crazy about a guy with a career OPS of .714 playing 1B. I like Viciedo and think he can be a good hitter at some point, and there's no reason to get rid of him heading into next year, but he's walking on thin ice.

 

I'd like to try our best to keep him in the OF as long as possible. Moving to 1B is always an option, but moving back to OF from 1B is not something you see go well very often. He's bad, but he's not unplayable in the OF at this point. I'd feel more comfortable with him at 1B if we had more certainty with his bat; we don't. You don't want to give up on Dayan, but you don't want a 1B that can't hit. I'd much rather have a bad LF than a bad 1B.

[caulfield12]

Are we not allowed to give out multi-year deals?

 

I'd like to lock up one of Morales/Pence/Choo to about a 3 year deal. Signing two (would have to Morales + another) might be a stretch, but we'll have the money. Will be interesting to see how the market goes.

 

 

 

I'd like to try our best to keep him in the OF as long as possible. Moving to 1B is always an option, but moving back to OF from 1B is not something you see go well very often. He's bad, but he's not unplayable in the OF at this point. I'd feel more comfortable with him at 1B if we had more certainty with his bat; we don't. You don't want to give up on Dayan, but you don't want a 1B that can't hit. I'd much rather have a bad LF than a bad 1B.

 

 

What's the average AL OPS for LF vs. 1B this year?

 

Last year, he was a league average LF, it was in the 725-735 range.

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Are we not allowed to give out multi-year deals?

 

I'd like to lock up one of Morales/Pence/Choo to about a 3 year deal. Signing two (would have to Morales + another) might be a stretch, but we'll have the money. Will be interesting to see how the market goes.

 

 

 

I'd like to try our best to keep him in the OF as long as possible. Moving to 1B is always an option, but moving back to OF from 1B is not something you see go well very often. He's bad, but he's not unplayable in the OF at this point. I'd feel more comfortable with him at 1B if we had more certainty with his bat; we don't. You don't want to give up on Dayan, but you don't want a 1B that can't hit. I'd much rather have a bad LF than a bad 1B.

I know you're looking at the Sox competing next year and surely I'd love for that to happen but chances are it won't. Just too many holes to fill and question marks. After the trade deadline chances are the only thing the Sox will have going for them is starting pitching. Everything else will a big IF and 3 year deals to 30YO+ players shouldn't be considered unless the Sox pick up some sure things at the trade deadline ,which likely isn't happening.

[witesoxfan]

What's the average AL OPS for LF vs. 1B this year?

 

Last year, he was a league average LF, it was in the 725-735 range.

 

Average MLB OPS is .779 at 1B, .740 in LF

[fathom]

Not that it matters, but I don't think Viciedo is a good fit at all for 1B. It takes away his throwing arm, which is one of his biggest tools.

[caulfield12]

Not that it matters, but I don't think Viciedo is a good fit at all for 1B. It takes away his throwing arm, which is one of his biggest tools.

 

 

And he can jump a little, but he's honestly 5'10" or 5'10 1/2," thus making a big target but not a tall one...

 

Definitely not Dunn's wingspan...and then he'd have to work on so many different facets of the game that he hasn't been practicing since 2009 and 2010.