Jake Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/chicago...vailable-071013 The time is right; the market for starting pitching stinks. Matt Garza is an oft-injured rental. Yovani Gallardo has a 4.85 ERA. Kyle Lohse is 35, Bud Norris has never pitched for a contender, and Joe Saunders is, well, Joe Saunders. David Price isn’t out there. Cliff Lee isn’t out there. No ace is out there. Some smart team is going to exploit the shortfall by putting a top-of-the-rotation starter in play. The White Sox should be that team. They’re already selling, entertaining offers on virtually all of their players, according to major league sources. Their interest in trading Sale, though, is unclear. Some in baseball believe Sale can be had. But one general manager who is looking for starting pitching says that he has had numerous conversations with White Sox GM Rick Hahn, and Hahn never once has mentioned Sale. Which could mean nothing. If I’m Hahn, I’m not shopping Sale to all 29 other clubs. No, I’m doing this quietly, targeting only a select few contenders with rich farm systems — say, Texas, Boston, Arizona and St. Louis. More at link Edited July 10, 2013 by Jake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) I dont have to like things i dont like obviously. but the logic thread is absolutely dead-on. That is unless we are planning on exploding with win-now moves ASAP. There has to be some repercussion from a totally lost farm system. At some point here we have to inject young talent that has already had some minor league success and sustained it a bit To do this, however, it would have to be a prospect boon of insane proportions. Edited July 10, 2013 by Jose Paniagua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 03:48 PM) http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/chicago...vailable-071013 More at link This only makes sense if: 1) The Sox want to do a long-term rebuild like the Cubs or Astros, and it is the precursor to dumping off literally everyone else worth anything 2) You get multiple ML ready position players and then decide to keep Peavy and Rios and compete next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 09:04 PM) This only makes sense if: 1) The Sox want to do a long-term rebuild like the Cubs or Astros, and it is the precursor to dumping off literally everyone else worth anything 2) You get multiple ML ready position players and then decide to keep Peavy and Rios and compete next year 3) You think there's no way he stays healthy for the length of his contract Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 He won't get traded. Never going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 03:04 PM) This only makes sense if: 1) The Sox want to do a long-term rebuild like the Cubs or Astros, and it is the precursor to dumping off literally everyone else worth anything 2) You get multiple ML ready position players and then decide to keep Peavy and Rios and compete next year And 2 just doesn't happen quite as much as it used to. Although the Haren for Skaggs/Corbin payoff would be a nice outcome...add in a position prospect at AA/AAA, done, steak dinner, boom. Edited July 10, 2013 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 10:06 PM) He won't get traded. Never going to happen. It really would have to be a package that's too good to turn down (ie: Profar, Perez and Martin or Taveras, Martinez, Wong, Rosenthal). Neither team would do something like that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I replied to Ken and told him that this is all under this assumption that the Sox want to do a full rebuild. To which I told him that probably wont happen. He replied yep. So this is all imagination land at this point. Not going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:08 PM) It really would have to be a package that's too good to turn down (ie: Profar, Perez and Martin or Taveras, Martinez, Wong, Rosenthal). Neither team would do something like that though. Texas might, they have the $$$ to cover up the lack of prospects. You need a future #1 in the deal plus another A player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) For the right deal I'd do it, and the right deal has to be ridiculous. Of the teams mentioned conversations would have to start with... Rangers- Profar and Olt+ Boston- Bogaerts and Bradley+ Arizona- Davidson, Owings, and Holberg+ St. Louis- Taveras and Wong+ I also don't think any of those deals would be "rebuild" moves Edited July 10, 2013 by scs787 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:10 PM) Texas might, they have the $$$ to cover up the lack of prospects. You need a future #1 in the deal plus another A player. I would want to decimate Texas's farm for Sale...thats what it would take for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Jeff Passan @JeffPassan 9m While there is incentive to trade Chris Sale, as @Ken_Rosenthal suggested, two execs said White Sox have shown no indication he's available. Jeff Passan @JeffPassan 9m That said, there is enough chatter among scouts that White Sox would deal Sale for right package that Sox GM Rick Hahn will get calls on it. Do you think this information is out there because the White Sox want it out there? Not that they want to trade him but I think it doesn't hurt to listen to all offers. Ken Rosenthal has always been a White Sox guy. Kenny Williams likes Rosenthal and has given him information in the past. Probably far-fetched but it made me wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Even Ken told me that they probably wont go the full rebuild. As for Olt....do people pay attention to how he is playing? I saw him play just the other week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:11 PM) I would want to decimate Texas's farm for Sale...thats what it would take for me. Exactly. Look at these deals. Two years ago: Cincinnati received RHP Mat Latos from San Diego. They gave up: 1B Yonder Alonso, C Yasmani Grandal, RHP Edinson Volquez, and RHP Brad Boxburger. Also: Arizona received RHP Dan Haren. Oakland receives: Pitchers Brett Anderson, Dana Eveland, Greg Smith, 1B Chris Carter, and OF's Carlos Gonzalez and Aaron Cunningham. Haren had 2 years remaining on his deal at the time. Sale would command a package even bigger than either of those deals. Sale is under team control for the next 7 seasons. This is what a potential haul would have to look like from Texas in order to make it plausible SS Jurickson Profar 3B Mike Olt LHP Martin Perez RHP Justin Grimm 3B Joey Gallo That is a trade that Texas would never make. The White Sox on the other hand would have to make that deal. There are maybe only 5 teams in baseball capable of giving up a haul like that. None of those teams would be willing to do so however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Wacha, Taveras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Ahhahhh...so I am not the only crazy one to suggest this.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:26 PM) Wacha, Taveras Maybe to start with. Then add: Matt Adams, Carlos Martinez, and Kolten Wong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:26 PM) Ahhahhh...so I am not the only crazy one to suggest this.... if you do it, you send the message that you are rebuilding for the long term, and not the short term, and you have to live with those consequences as a White Sox organization that is still marred by the history of White Flag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:31 PM) if you do it, you send the message that you are rebuilding for the long term, and not the short term, and you have to live with those consequences as a White Sox organization that is still marred by the history of White Flag. There is probably a 5 percent chance that happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:34 PM) There is probably a 5 percent chance that happens. And for good reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:31 PM) if you do it, you send the message that you are rebuilding for the long term, and not the short term, and you have to live with those consequences as a White Sox organization that is still marred by the history of White Flag. Why would it signal a long term rebuild?? If they get back 2 sure fire MLB ready studs (and then some) they still have Peavy-Danks-Q-Santiago-Johnson/Axe lined up for next year along with 2+ more pieces to the offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 02:31 PM) if you do it, you send the message that you are rebuilding for the long term, and not the short term, and you have to live with those consequences as a White Sox organization that is still marred by the history of White Flag. I don't know that it matters anymore...this team sucks...plain and simple. I enjoy having Chris as much as the next guy, but he can only pitch once every 5 games (if we're lucky). If I could get the right package of mlb close-to-ready position prospects, I'd make the deal. If not, I wait til next year and regroup. There is enough pitching around that if we made the right tweaks and got a lot of luck, we might be back in the hunt as early as next year, but I think we blew that chance last season. Things have gone precisely as I expected them to go this year. And I don't see them likely changing any time in the near future unless drastic, wholesale changes are made. Given our assets, I think the best way to effectuate such changes is by moving Chris. That would give us a chance to get things back on track within the next 2 years and give the fans a good, young, and most importantly, entertaining club to watch and grow with. If we try and do it halfway, at least IMHO, Chris may very well end up being a lone bright spot on a middling team for the next 3-5 years. You would have to get the "right" package though...not just a package of guys that would help, but "the" package of guys...those that fit your short and long-term plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 QUOTE (scs787 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:36 PM) Why would it signal a long term rebuild?? If they get back 2 sure fire MLB ready studs (and then some) they still have Peavy-Danks-Q-Santiago-Johnson/Axe lined up for next year along with 2+ more pieces to the offense. Because if you trade Sale, you are going to end up trading everything on the roster. And, I mean, it's cool to get back prospects, and some of them turn out, but, well, these things have a tendency to fail and fall apart. Whereas you keep Sale and you already have an ace, plus 2-3 other legitimate starters and a few others on the way, and then you can patchwork an offense back together and make the playoffs. The Giants have won 2 of the last 3 World Series with that exact same philosophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:31 PM) if you do it, you send the message that you are rebuilding for the long term, and not the short term, and you have to live with those consequences as a White Sox organization that is still marred by the history of White Flag. It can send whatever message it wants. If it nets a team that wins the World Series then nobody will care. Win consistently. They are a Chicago team in a division full of teams that will have small payrolls (Minus Detroit). Make trades that get you closer to winning a world series. If trading Sale gets you closer to a World Series then you make the trade. You don't not make the trade because the fanbase might get upset. Initially, Sox fans might cry about dealing Sale. If the product nets you three position players under 6 years of control and 2 starting pitchers that help the Sox go on a 5-7 year run of sustained success, I am pretty sure nobody will care that they traded one of the best pitchers in baseball to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:05 PM) 3) You think there's no way he stays healthy for the length of his contract Ding ding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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