flavum Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 10:20 AM) The Big Unit was rail thin when he hit the big leagues He filled out more later on, but Sale is much thinner now than Johnson was at the same age. Johnson was never skin and bones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 08:24 AM) At the very least, this team had 4+ major injuries early in the season, including several of the freak variety. Viciedo, Beckham, Peavy, Floyd. Beckham in particular was the definition of a freak injury, and it's probably going to rob him of some power for the full season. That's pretty rotten luck. Maybe it is helping him remember how to hit though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 10:20 AM) The Big Unit was rail thin when he hit the big leagues oh so my picture of him in an Expos uniform isnt good enough, I see how it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Edwin Jackson 4 years/$52M (2013-16) signed by Chicago Cubs as a free agent 12/20/12 $8M signing bonus 13:$11M, 14:$11M, 15:$11M, 16:$11M deal does not include no-trade protection Ask Theo for $15-17.5 million, haha. Trade Peavy and Danks for whatever they can get, not so concerned with the return for Danks as getting rid of the contract. Not in this particular order, obviously, you'd have to put the 2 righties in between. 1. Sale 2. Santiago 3. Quintana 4. Edwin Jackson (can flip him anytime in 2014 or 2015 if the team isn't competitive after Coop has "refixed" him) 5. Erik Johnson Use the savings from Danks and Peavy (almost $20 million per season) to fix the offense. That also gives the rotation at least one veteran who has enjoyed success with the Sox and gives you three lefties/two righties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 10:38 AM) oh so my picture of him in an Expos uniform isnt good enough, I see how it is Its never good enough, Wite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 If Gavin Floyd requires a major league contract next season, if you are a GM and don't say "pass", you shouldn't be a GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 10:53 AM) If Gavin Floyd requires a major league contract next season, if you are a GM and don't say "pass", you shouldn't be a GM. $1-2 mill for 2-3 months of a #3-4 starter and a team option for like $6 million for year 2? I think that'd be a good deal actually. Hell, the Angels might just give him a 3 year deal. They were willing to give Joe Blanton 2 years and $15 million, and I don't think anyone saw that deal working out well for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 11:02 AM) $1-2 mill for 2-3 months of a #3-4 starter and a team option for like $6 million for year 2? I think that'd be a good deal actually. Hell, the Angels might just give him a 3 year deal. They were willing to give Joe Blanton 2 years and $15 million, and I don't think anyone saw that deal working out well for them. How is he going to be a 3-4 starter next year? Next season is a wash for him. 14-19 month recovery time, then it takes awhile from there and it isn't like he is dealing when the season begins anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 11:05 AM) How is he going to be a 3-4 starter next year? Next season is a wash for him. 14-19 month recovery time, then it takes awhile from there and it isn't like he is dealing when the season begins anyway. If he heals quickly, he's back by July or August, and he could be effective down the stretch for a team. If no one signs him, it's not a big deal either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Bringing Floyd back to a rebuilding team...no thanks. Unless he wants to do his rehab next year for the major league minimum and gives us a sweetheart option deal for 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 11:31 AM) If he heals quickly, he's back by July or August, and he could be effective down the stretch for a team. If no one signs him, it's not a big deal either. Check his history the first 2 months of a season. If he can get someone to bite, good for him. I think paying him a million or 2 next year is far better spent on a deadline move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 10:16 AM) Would a team sign him for a major league contract if he's not going to pitch until July? I'm not being sarcastic...would a team do this? It has become more and more popular as teams have struggled to find starting pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 08:48 AM) The Sox are not close to contending at this point. The Sox can go out and spend to be competitive and be a mediocre team for the foreseeable future, but with a lack of talent on the major league level and no help in sight in the upper levels of the farm system there is really no foundation to build success. As we have seen this year, pitching can only take you so far. There is no reason to not rebuild this team from the ground up to try and generate some prolonged success. I think we are looking at a 3-4 year rebuild, and delaying that only makes the period of time which this team will not be a contender longer. If you can make deals that bring back MLB caliber starters and prospects in addition, you really need to look at them. If Sale can turn into three everyday players with some upside plus a starter with a high ceiling, it makes this team a lot better than one guy going out and dominating every five days, but losing becuase the offense and defense behind him is crap. Guess who is 28 in 4 years and still under control? Chris Sale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 11:54 AM) Guess who is 28 in 4 years and still under control? Chris Sale And Santiago will be 29 and Quintana will be 28. Could be a very very good rotation then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Sox would need to get an amount that no team within their right mind would provide for sale. In terms of his contracts value it is near identical to the likes of Evan Longoria. It has been said time and time again the sox have a great young cheap pitching core going forward and they're shedding a ton of payroll this off season. Caulfield12 why are you so adamant about trading Danks and his contract when it will not hamstring the future of the sox? With all the money coming off the books next year after the trades this deadline or offseason they should lock up Santiago, Quintana and Beckham and look to sign FAs like Morales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 12:09 PM) Sox would need to get an amount that no team within their right mind would provide for sale. In terms of his contracts value it is near identical to the likes of Evan Longoria. It has been said time and time again the sox have a great young cheap pitching core going forward and they're shedding a ton of payroll this off season. Caulfield12 why are you so adamant about trading Danks and his contract when it will not hamstring the future of the sox? With all the money coming off the books next year after the trades this deadline or offseason they should lock up Santiago, Quintana and Beckham and look to sign FAs like Morales. I think a Danks trade does a couple of things. It balances the rotation as more righthanded, and it could bring us back a much needed hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 12:11 PM) I think a Danks trade does a couple of things. It balances the rotation as more righthanded, and it could bring us back a much needed hitter. Is handiness really that big of an issue? it feels like such a dogmatic way of thinking; if you have 4 well above average pitchers that just so happen to pitch with their left hand does it matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 12:09 PM) Sox would need to get an amount that no team within their right mind would provide for sale. In terms of his contracts value it is near identical to the likes of Evan Longoria. It has been said time and time again the sox have a great young cheap pitching core going forward and they're shedding a ton of payroll this off season. Caulfield12 why are you so adamant about trading Danks and his contract when it will not hamstring the future of the sox? With all the money coming off the books next year after the trades this deadline or offseason they should lock up Santiago, Quintana and Beckham and look to sign FAs like Morales. Longo signed a $100 million extension from 2016-2022. Sale might have the best contract in baseball right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 05:02 PM) We have to cross our fingers and pray he doesn't go down to elbow surgery in 2014 or 2015 or we'll all be revisiting this thread and saying what an idiot Hahn was for holding onto him too long when each year going forward (riddled with non-competitive teams and sub-.500 records and apathy) the White Sox ended up blowing the opportunity of a decade to rebuild their franchise and breathe new life back into it. This idea is what frightens me. Sale is exactly the ace-caliber starting pitcher you'd want anchoring your rotation -- but are we in any position to compete in 2014? 2015? If we're holding onto him, Hahn may as well do everything within his power to build the team to compete. It's useless keeping Sale for the next several years and risk depleting his value if Hahn cannot convince himself that we're in no better position to atleast win the division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 12:44 PM) This idea is what frightens me. Sale is exactly the ace-caliber starting pitcher you'd want anchoring your rotation -- but are we in any position to compete in 2014? 2015? If we're holding onto him, Hahn may as well do everything within his power to build the team to compete. It's useless keeping Sale for the next several years and risk depleting his value if Hahn cannot convince himself that we're in no better position to atleast win the division. The longer the team feels until it will be competitive, the less sense it is to not at least listen to offers for Sale. Hahn isn't stupid. If he's not even listening about Sale or at least trying to gauge what a team would give up to get him, he isn't thinking long term re-build. Stranger things have happened. The 1976 White Sox couldn't hit. 1977 they became the hitmen. As long as the Sox have starting pitching, it makes no sense going into a lengthy rebuild. Hitters will be available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share Posted July 11, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 12:54 PM) The longer the team feels until it will be competitive, the less sense it is to not at least listen to offers for Sale. Hahn isn't stupid. If he's not even listening about Sale or at least trying to gauge what a team would give up to get him, he isn't thinking long term re-build. Stranger things have happened. The 1976 White Sox couldn't hit. 1977 they became the hitmen. As long as the Sox have starting pitching, it makes no sense going into a lengthy rebuild. Hitters will be available. Agree. You rebuild when your whole team is bad, not when half of it is bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 12:58 PM) Agree. You rebuild when your whole team is bad, not when half of it is bad And the half that is bad is the easier half to fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 12:44 PM) This idea is what frightens me. Sale is exactly the ace-caliber starting pitcher you'd want anchoring your rotation -- but are we in any position to compete in 2014? 2015? If we're holding onto him, Hahn may as well do everything within his power to build the team to compete. It's useless keeping Sale for the next several years and risk depleting his value if Hahn cannot convince himself that we're in no better position to atleast win the division. Very good post. The idea of losing Sale frightens me also. I guess it simply will all depend on how long of a retooling process they would like to endure. Im assuming next year will be a developing year for the newly acquired young guys. However, if the organization decides to make a run at it in 2015, id say you have to keep him. Its tricky. If a team offers three can't miss top 50 prospects, we would be foolish not to explore that possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 In 2008, John Danks was a very highly thought of 23 year old, and people around here were comparing 25 year old Gavin Floyd to Roy Halladay. While it would be nice to think the young core of current White Sox starters will be around and effective for a long while, it's probably not realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balfanman Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 01:02 PM) Very good post. The idea of losing Sale frightens me also. I guess it simply will all depend on how long of a retooling process they would like to endure. Im assuming next year will be a developing year for the newly acquired young guys. However, if the organization decides to make a run at it in 2015, id say you have to keep him. Its tricky. If a team offers three can't miss top 50 prospects, we would be foolish not to explore that possibility. There's no such thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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