Matt Thornton to Boston

[Heads22]

greg, i still don't get why you think crain is old.

[Paulstar]

With the White Sox lack of ability to effectively scout and develop OF's of the athletic variety the past four years or so (actually more than that), I fully expect Brandon Jacobs to fall into the same mold of Jared Mitchell, Tryace Thompson, Keynan Walker, and Courtney Hawkins as someone with all the talent in the world, but is just not a good baseball player. However, I was not expecting anything of great return for Matt Thornton, so we shall see. Maybe Jacobs will turn out not to suck, but it would be nice to see a true baseball player brought in here for once.

[hi8is]

Brandon Jacobs, Jared Mitchell, Tryace Thompson, Keynan Walker, and Courtney Hawkins...

Claiming to know all of these prospects to bust is unreasonable.

Two of them are in their first full year, one in his second, and the other two have had injury based setbacks.

 

Sorry Paulstar - but your post was very biased in my opinion.

At least we both agree the hope is for your sentiment to be off the mark.

 

Cheers to that.

[Vance Law]

With the White Sox lack of ability to effectively scout and develop OF's of the athletic variety the past four years or so (actually more than that), I fully expect Brandon Jacobs to fall into the same mold of Jared Mitchell, Tryace Thompson, Keynan Walker, and Courtney Hawkins as someone with all the talent in the world, but is just not a good baseball player. However, I was not expecting anything of great return for Matt Thornton, so we shall see. Maybe Jacobs will turn out not to suck, but it would be nice to see a true baseball player brought in here for once.

 

Jared Mitchell is the only one of those guys older than 22. Hawkins has played 114 minor league games in his career.

[caulfield12]

all from sonsofsamhorn.com

 

Number 36 prospect in the Boston system according to soxprospects.com

 

He was an interesting outfield prospect before stalling out at A+ Salem last year. He repeated the level this year, started hitting again and recently got promoted to Portland.

 

http://www.soxprospe...obs-brandon.htm

 

 

 

In another farm system, Jacobs is likely held on to. It's a testament to the depth the (Red) Sox have built that Jacobs was worth moving for a reliever. As has been pointed out, he wasn't likely to make the 40 man roster after this year and would have been unprotected for the next Rule 5 draft. As of this morning, soxprospects.com had him behind Hazelbaker, Hassan, De La Cruz, Margot, Brentz, and Bradley. Of them, only Bradley and Hassan are on the 40 man currently, and only Margot won't be Rule 5 eligible. They had a crunch and as intriguing as Jacobs is for his tools, he was on the outside looking in when it came to 40 man roster protection.

 

 

Jacobs is still a high-reward but high-risk prospect but over the past month, he had started to remind us of the player he was a few seasons ago. He was very raw when drafted (Auburn RB commit) but has become much more of a baseball player. Huge power, aggressive on the base paths, right-handed hitter. For the White Sox he's a lottery ticket but if he pans out the Red Sox will regret the trade. He has a greater chance today of making it than at the end of last season. Jacobs was a guy I always rooted for coming up and could make a serious impact in the majors if it all works out for him.

 

 

50/50 on this. It's fair, and I'm assuming it's market value -- a decent reliever should cost a lottery ticket prospect, and nothing more -- but it's certainly going to stink if Jacobs figures it out in three years. The fact that he had to be protected in the Rule 5 draft makes this more acceptable; I don't think he'd earn a 40-man spot in this org. Guys with tools usually take a long time to figure it out. One pair of Sox (Red) apparently think he's not going to get it. The other pair (White) has hope.

 

Of course, nothing ever became of Engel Beltre, so there's that. Let's hope Thornton isn't Gagne II.

 

 

If past is prologue, Jacobs will hit 32 HRs and win a Gold Glove next year while Thornton will busing tables at the Golden Corral.

 

 

Maybe they can use some of the cash coming back to purchase the soon to be 37 year old Thornton the very same "stem cell surgery" that Bartolo Colon got back when he was in his late 40s.

 

 

Regardless of whatever he eventually becomes he is way down on our ML depth chart and was not going to have a spot on the 40 man roster at season's end. You make this deal everyday of the week and 3 ways to Sunday. What good is it to have great depth in the minors and not take advantage of it by making moves like this. I hate comments like this, because it is so non committal as to not say anything at all. Perhaps you feel it will reserve your spot to complain down the road should he become something, how very Glen Ordway of you. I closely follow the Sox minor league system and Jacobs was expendable. At 19 in the NYPL he had a .719 OPS at 20 in A ball-Salem his OPS was .881, at 21 in A ball-Carolina his OPS was .732 he faired slightly better repeating the same level this year with a .774 OPS before being moved to Portland.

 

So in review despite playing leagues at a age appropriate level he has had one good season 2 years ago and he's part of the roster crunch coming up this off-season. He's the poster boy of lottery tickets, and it is a dam good trade no matter how you slice it. The Sox acquired a present need without mortgaging their future.

[caulfield12]

Ironic, the last team making comments about losing a player anyway and not having the ability to protect him on the 40 man roster was Pitt with Damaso Marte...the Pirates were so cocky Guerrier would be the "next Greg Maddux" and how they didn't have plans to use Marte and were going to lose him for nothing.

 

Then he (Marte) proceeds to become the best LHR in baseball for the next 3 seasons. At the very least, one of the three top lefty set-up guys in the 7th/8th.

[winninguglyin83]

have the sox said yet where he starts?

 

gotta be birmingham, right?

[Chicago White Sox]

have the sox said yet where he starts?

 

gotta be birmingham, right?

I would send him to Winston-Salem personally. He's only 22 years old...I really see no need to rush him to AA.

 

 

[iamshack]

I thought we wanted a few high-ceiling guys in these trades?

 

Well guys, these are the high-ceiling players you get for a reliever like Thornton....ones that have plenty of flaws currently...

[southsider2k5]

I thought we wanted a few high-ceiling guys in these trades?

 

Well guys, these are the high-ceiling players you get for a reliever like Thornton....ones that have plenty of flaws currently...

 

YOu can't be surprised that people who have been advocating trading everyone, ASAP, for anything they can get, are complaining about returns...

[Balta1701]

Trayce is a plus defensive outfielder with superior power potential to Jacobs. Not even on the same page (other then the fact that both have shown they can't hit consistently). Not knocking Jacobs here but his tools aren't near what Trayce's are.

 

Personally I'm disappointed in this trade. Jacobs is a fine get but the Sox are paying a lot of salary and I'd have thought they could have gotten more. Maybe I had just overvalued Thorty though. At least Jacobs has solid tools and potential and could turn into a solid starter. Still, Thorty was one of the more solid lefty relievers on the market and in years past I've seen these type of guys get more inr return then what the Sox have gotten back, especially given the Sox contributed a decent amount of cash.

$750k is "a lot of salary" in modern baseball?

[winninguglyin83]

$750k is "a lot of salary" in modern baseball?

 

It's less than 25 percent of what Thornton was owed.

 

It made The Chairman smile.

 

[LittleHurt05]

YOu can't be surprised that people who have been advocating trading everyone, ASAP, for anything they can get, are complaining about returns...

 

"Thornton is garbage! Trade him for a bag of balls!"

 

"They traded Thornton and didn't get a top 100 prospect back? Fire Hahn!"

[caulfield12]

$750k is "a lot of salary" in modern baseball?

 

It is kind of ridiculous they gave away $750,000 for a player that was going to be available as a Rule 5 pick anyway.

 

That said, it's more of a testament to how far Matt has fallen in terms of stuff than about what we got back in return. Forgetting about ROI and what could have gotten for Thornton 3-4 years ago, we should look at it like what would/will we be doing with those cost savings, which amount to about $2.25 million.

 

That's another Micker Zapata, another solid international prospect between #20-40 AND the NFL LOTTERY TICKET.

 

 

We need another five of those tickets, and maybe Buddy Bell will have an actual success with one of them.

Edited July 13, 2013 by caulfield12

[JoshPR]

The love of these toolsy outfielder who end up being nothing.. glad to see things are changing.

My point exactly

[Balta1701]

It is kind of ridiculous they gave away $750,000 for a player that was going to be available as a Rule 5 pick anyway.

 

That said, it's more of a testament to how far Matt has fallen in terms of stuff than about what we got back in return. Forgetting about who we got back, we should look at it like what would/will we be doing with those cost savings, which amount to about $2.25 million.

 

That's another Micker Zapata, another solid international prospect between #20-40 AND the NFL LOTTERY TICKET.

 

 

We need another five of those tickets, and maybe Buddy Bell will have an actual success with one of them.

Have you paid zero attention to the new international signing rules? having an extra $2.25 million saved this year doesn't mean the Sox have any additional money to spend on international signings, those dollar amounts are now capped. It means the Sox have $2.25 million to spend on the roster somewhere else, next year or on an extension or whatever.

 

The days of dumping money into international signings are over. You get a fixed amount based on where you draft. You can trade for more, but if you go over the capped value then it destroys your ability to sign people the next year.

[Paulstar]

Claiming to know all of these prospects to bust is unreasonable.

Two of them are in their first full year, one in his second, and the other two have had injury based setbacks.

 

Sorry Paulstar - but your post was very biased in my opinion.

At least we both agree the hope is for your sentiment to be off the mark.

 

Cheers to that.

Just judging by stats and the WHite Sox lack of ability to develop position players, I don't see a reason to be optimistic. It seems to me Thompson has the best shot at becoming a solid major league player, but he needs to find consistency. Walker might make eventually get a call up/make a squad just based on how fast he is.

 

Hated both the Mitchell and Hawkins picks when they happened, and I think you can pretty much call Mitchell a bust by now. I almost think Hawkins has a better shot at becoming a major league pitcher than outfielder unless the White Sox have some coach somewhere in the system that is the swing whisper and can fix Hawkins approach and mechanics at bat. He does have big time power though, so that is exciting.

[caulfield12]

Have you paid zero attention to the new international signing rules? having an extra $2.25 million saved this year doesn't mean the Sox have any additional money to spend on international signings, those dollar amounts are now capped. It means the Sox have $2.25 million to spend on the roster somewhere else, next year or on an extension or whatever.

 

The days of dumping money into international signings are over. You get a fixed amount based on where you draft. You can trade for more, but if you go over the capped value then it destroys your ability to sign people the next year.

 

DUH!!! I get that, I'm just trying to "spin" the trade in a way that sounds better.

 

If you think of it like Zapata, Braulio Ortiz/Hanleth Otono and Brandon Jacobs for Matt Thornton. WOW. It's an amazing return.

 

Assuming they put that money back into payroll, scouting/development, etc. There's nobody putting a gun to JR's or Hahn's head and making them spend it.

 

For all we know, they'll be putting it into a TIPS fund to spend later and earning interest.

 

But thanks for assuming that I wasn't paying attention to the international draft pool system when I've already posted 2-3 articles about it in the minor league forum, lol.

Edited July 13, 2013 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Just judging by stats and the WHite Sox lack of ability to develop position players, I don't see a reason to be optimistic. It seems to me Thompson has the best shot at becoming a solid major league player, but he needs to find consistency. Walker might make eventually get a call up/make a squad just based on how fast he is.

 

Hated both the Mitchell and Hawkins picks when they happened, and I think you can pretty much call Mitchell a bust by now. I almost think Hawkins has a better shot at becoming a major league pitcher than outfielder unless the White Sox have some coach somewhere in the system that is the swing whisper and can fix Hawkins approach and mechanics at bat. He does have big time power though, so that is exciting.

 

Casper Wells is the better short relief prospect.

[caulfield12]

Just judging by stats and the WHite Sox lack of ability to develop position players, I don't see a reason to be optimistic. It seems to me Thompson has the best shot at becoming a solid major league player, but he needs to find consistency. Walker might make eventually get a call up/make a squad just based on how fast he is.

 

Hated both the Mitchell and Hawkins picks when they happened, and I think you can pretty much call Mitchell a bust by now. I almost think Hawkins has a better shot at becoming a major league pitcher than outfielder unless the White Sox have some coach somewhere in the system that is the swing whisper and can fix Hawkins approach and mechanics at bat. He does have big time power though, so that is exciting.

 

 

I knew Rodney McCray. And they are no Rodney McCray.

[Balta1701]

DUH!!! I get that, I'm just trying to "spin" the trade in a way that sounds better.

 

If you think of it like Zapata, Braulio Ortiz/Hanleth Otono and Brandon Jacobs for Matt Thornton. WOW. It's an amazing return.

 

Assuming they put that money back into payroll, scouting/development, etc. There's nobody putting a gun to JR's or Hahn's head and making them spend it.

 

For all we know, they'll be putting it into a TIPS fund to spend later and earning interest.

 

But thanks for assuming that I wasn't paying attention to the international draft pool system when I've already posted 2-3 articles about it in the minor league forum, lol.

Which is why it was wierd that you posted a comment which would not have been written in the case where the international slotting system was understood.

 

Given how the White Sox have operated over the last decade+, I think it's a very safe assumption that the money will be spent somewhere eventually, but obviously you can't just "Spend it to sign more international prospects" any more.

[caulfield12]

Which is why it was wierd that you posted a comment which would not have been written in the case where the international slotting system was understood.

 

Given how the White Sox have operated over the last decade+, I think it's a very safe assumption that the money will be spent somewhere eventually, but obviously you can't just "Spend it to sign more international prospects" any more.

 

 

Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez says "hi" though.

 

Unfortunately, he's not a hitter, but we might be better off acquiring pitching (something we actually know about) and spinning it off for hitters instead of having a prayer of developing a position prospect.

 

Gordon Beckham wasn't even in the minor league system long enough to be tainted too much, lol.

[oldsox]

Just judging by stats and the WHite Sox lack of ability to develop position players, I don't see a reason to be optimistic. It seems to me Thompson has the best shot at becoming a solid major league player, but he needs to find consistency. Walker might make eventually get a call up/make a squad just based on how fast he is.

 

Hated both the Mitchell and Hawkins picks when they happened, and I think you can pretty much call Mitchell a bust by now. I almost think Hawkins has a better shot at becoming a major league pitcher than outfielder unless the White Sox have some coach somewhere in the system that is the swing whisper and can fix Hawkins approach and mechanics at bat. He does have big time power though, so that is exciting.

Thompson is consistent; that is his problem. Agree on Mitchell. He is currently on the 40 man roster. I wouldn't be surprised if Mitchell is removed and our new guy Jacobs added during the off season.

[caulfield12]

Thompson is consistent; that is his problem. Agree on Mitchell. He is currently on the 40 man roster. I wouldn't be surprised if Mitchell is removed and our new guy Jacobs added during the off season.

 

 

They have to add him or they will lose him in the Rule V draft.

 

Hahn's not that stupid, I hope.

[Balta1701]

Thompson is consistent; that is his problem.

Huh?