Eminor3rd Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/2013-trade-value-20-16/ #16 Chris Sale (P) Under Team Control Through 2019: $4M, $6M, $9M, $12M, $13M option, $14M option Sale is the American League’s answer to Madison Bumgarner, just with a few slight improvements. Both are tall left-handers who rely heavily on their big sweeping sliders for strikeouts, and not coincidentally, both have almost exactly the same contract. There is no question that Bumgarner’s 5/35 with two options contract was used as a template for the 5/33 with two options contract that Sale signed with the White Sox. If all the options on both contracts are exercised, the total payouts will be almost identical. Sale ranks ahead of Bumgarner because he’s been a little bit better, especially once you factor in park and league adjustments. Instead of playing in a pitcher friendly west coast ballpark and getting easy outs from opposing pitchers, Sale has pitched in a hitter friendly midwest ballpark and run through the DH league. As a guy who has shown he can be effective against stiffer competition, and is certainly not a product of his home park, Sale would command a bit more than Bumgarner in trade, though both are excellent pitchers. Sale’s arm problems from last summer, when he was temporarily moved to the bullpen, probably remain a bit of a drag on his value. His delivery has long brought about questions about his long term durability, and that scare reinforced preexisting beliefs that he might end up breaking down. Of course, no one really knows how to forecast future pitcher health yet, and Sale is good enough to earn his contract — and then some — in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitoMB345 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Interesting. I really do wonder what kind of haul we could get for a stud like Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 QUOTE (TitoMB @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 05:36 PM) Interesting. I really do wonder what kind of haul we could get for a stud like Sale. I hope we do not find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Anticipating my response to the completion of the list...."I wouldn't trade sale for 2/3 of those guys". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 What other pitchers are above him? Would you trade Kershaw for Sale straight up? Lol, no. Harvey is the only one you consider there that I can think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 07:28 PM) What other pitchers are above him? Would you trade Kershaw for Sale straight up? Lol, no. Harvey is the only one you consider there that I can think of. Kershaw and Harvey will be above Sale. But Sale was ahead of Felix and Darvish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 07:28 PM) What other pitchers are above him? Would you trade Kershaw for Sale straight up? Lol, no. Harvey is the only one you consider there that I can think of. Exactly. Sale's real value is in the top 5, easy. People will be a slow to recognize it due to his quirks, but if he stays healthy and electric, it won't take much longer. Is Kershaw a better pitcher today? Maybe. But you take Sale w/ 6.5 years of control at an incredibly team-friendly rate over Kershaw and 1.5 years of control every, single, day. That is just one example of the many guys who will be 1-15. Edited July 19, 2013 by ChiSox59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 09:21 PM) Kershaw and Harvey will be above Sale. But Sale was ahead of Felix and Darvish. Harvey I can buy. Kershaws about to get a contract worth twice sale's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 08:21 PM) Kershaw and Harvey will be above Sale. But Sale was ahead of Felix and Darvish. Absolutely zero reason Kershaw should be above Sale. $11 million in 2014, then at least $20 million from 2015 and on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 He teased that there wouldn't be many pitchers in top 15 due to injury risk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 #15-#11 15. Kershaw 14. Strasburg 13. Tulo 12. Miggy Cabrera 11. Yadi Molina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 19, 2013 -> 10:29 AM) #15-#11 15. Kershaw 14. Strasburg 13. Tulo 12. Miggy Cabrera 11. Yadi Molina Not a single person in that group I'd trade Sale for straight-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 19, 2013 -> 10:33 AM) Not a single person in that group I'd trade Sale for straight-up. You can sign me up for Miggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 19, 2013 -> 10:33 AM) Not a single person in that group I'd trade Sale for straight-up. I would go back & forth about Miggy, but I agree about the other four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 19, 2013 Author Share Posted July 19, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 19, 2013 -> 10:33 AM) Not a single person in that group I'd trade Sale for straight-up. I'd take Tulo and/or Cabrera. And I'd take Kershaw if I thought I could extend him, which would be the case if you were trading for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 19, 2013 -> 12:04 PM) I would go back & forth about Miggy, but I agree about the other four. Not with him being a free agent in 1.5 years. He'd be leaving us with nothing at that point, or we'd be signing him until he's 40 and paying him $25 million a year then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 19, 2013 -> 11:07 AM) I'd take Tulo and/or Cabrera. And I'd take Kershaw if I thought I could extend him, which would be the case if you were trading for him. Tulo needs to stop getting hurt. And if we do extend Kershaw it's gonna be for over $200 million, I'd rather keep Sale for a year or two less for $160 millions less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 19, 2013 -> 11:08 AM) Not with him being a free agent in 1.5 years. He'd be leaving us with nothing at that point, or we'd be signing him until he's 40 and paying him $25 million a year then. That's why I go back & forth on it. He is just such a force right now though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 19, 2013 Author Share Posted July 19, 2013 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 19, 2013 -> 11:19 AM) Tulo needs to stop getting hurt. And if we do extend Kershaw it's gonna be for over $200 million, I'd rather keep Sale for a year or two less for $160 millions less. The thing about Tulo though, is that none of his injuries are nagging or project to be long-term. It's not completely unreasonable to assume a lot of it has been bad luck. Wrist broken by a pitch, for example. Kershaw is 25, has universally lauded mechanics, and is the best pitcher in the game. He's the type of guy you are fine paying market value for, especially in a mid-to-large market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 08:42 PM) Absolutely zero reason Kershaw should be above Sale. $11 million in 2014, then at least $20 million from 2015 and on. Kershaw also doesn't have health concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 19, 2013 -> 11:42 AM) Kershaw also doesn't have health concerns. Being a pitcher, there's always a health concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 19, 2013 -> 11:42 AM) Kershaw also doesn't have health concerns. Wasn't he injured last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) Yeah if we are really worried with starting pitchers injuries I'll take the guy with 700 less innings on him. Edited July 19, 2013 by Buehrle>Wood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Yeah I'm still going with Miggy. Not Tulo, as he's a higher injury risk than pitchers are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 05:44 PM) I hope we do not find out. Are you kidding me. I pray Rick Hanh is working the phones and placing calls on Sale. I wouldn't publicly shop him and say flood me with calls. But I would call a few teams in need of SP that you have a good relationship with and see if those select few would like to work out a package for Sale. I am talking the type of haul the Rangers got for Mark Texeria; Derek Holland, Neftali Feliz, Elvis Andrus. If Hahn can get that kind of package for Sale you 100% trade him, even though he has a team friendly deal. This team is bad and with no real talent in the minor leagues penciled in for roles with the big league club if you can get three for one here you do it. This team is a lot closer to a cubs like tear down and rebuild than they are to building around Sale to compete in the next 2-3 years. Sale is the one piece than can accelerate the tear down and rebuild ten fold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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