Save Your Money, GMs!

[greg775]

Ben Maller just Tweeted this: "Dodgers Matt Kemp (injured now) is on pace for 7 HR's and 41 RBIs this season despite $20,250,000 salary. #Bust #Fail"

 

My take:

When will owners/GMs learn that it is ridiculous to sign these stars to huge contracts?? At least in the NFL you are allowed to cut a guy and not have to fulfill the terms of the contract, making the signing bonus the important thing.

 

Pujols contract; A-Rod contract, etc. ... here's how it goes.

 

In winter, fans erupt in joy when their teams sign free agents to MASSIVE multi-year contracts. Then a few months later, they begin to lament the contracts until the day they run out. Why do GMs and owners continue to make these mistakes?? If there was sanity in baseball negotiations, it wouldn't cost 60 bucks to get a halfway decent seat at a baseball game.

 

 

[2nd_city_saint787]

 

Your on a roll with this subject.

 

s*** happens. Those players earned those contracts, GMs can't forsee the future.

 

Matt Kemp, Pujols, and A Rod were always MVP candidates year in and year out. A GM is not gonna say "wellll idk, I think they might bust even though they've consistently been phenomenal talents"

 

Same goes with your true target in this silly little tangent, Adam Dunn. He was one of the most consistent power hitters over the last some odd years. A GM has no way of knowing he's all of sudden going to become less of a singles/doubles hitter.

 

All these players have built up a solid enough reputation to garner these contracts.

Edited July 19, 2013 by scs787

[iamshack]

 

Your on a roll with this subject.

 

s*** happens. Those players earned those contracts, GMs can't forsee the future.

 

Matt Kemp, Pujols, and A Rod were always MVP candidates year in and year out. A GM is not gonna say "wellll idk, I think they might bust even though they've consistently been phenomenal talents"

 

Same goes with your true target in this silly little tangent, Adam Dunn. He was one of the most consistent power hitters over the last some odd years. A GM has no way of knowing he's all of sudden going to become less of a singles/doubles hitter.

 

All these players have built up a solid enough reputation to garner these contracts.

Part of the problem with baseball contracts is they are far too focused on past performance as opposed to anticipated or expected performance. This is a symptom of there being a s***load of money in the game.

[Leonard Zelig]

 

Your on a roll with this subject.

 

s*** happens. Those players earned those contracts, GMs can't forsee the future.

 

Matt Kemp, Pujols, and A Rod were always MVP candidates year in and year out. A GM is not gonna say "wellll idk, I think they might bust even though they've consistently been phenomenal talents"

 

Same goes with your true target in this silly little tangent, Adam Dunn. He was one of the most consistent power hitters over the last some odd years. A GM has no way of knowing he's all of sudden going to become less of a singles/doubles hitter.

 

All these players have built up a solid enough reputation to garner these contracts.

 

Pujols is going to get paid $87,000,000 for the 3 seasons when he is 39, 40, & 41 years old. Not sure even he has built up the reputation to warrant that contract.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Part of the problem with baseball contracts is they are far too focused on past performance as opposed to anticipated or expected performance. This is a symptom of there being a s***load of money in the game.

 

I guess the length can be questioned.

 

If you're looking at older player who have already started falling off then sure. The guys who greg has mentioned don't really fit that description.

 

Matt Kemp was in his prime.

 

Albert was a machine that showed no signs of slowing down, at least this early in the contract.

 

A Rod is still riding out a contract when he was looking like the best player of all time.

 

Dunn had just come off 2 straight solid seasons, and we've seen hitters like Thome play well into their mid 30s.

 

Danks is another player greg brought up earlier and his contract was considered a "good one" when he signed it. KW nor any GM can foresee and injury.

 

 

 

 

[2nd_city_saint787]

Pujols is going to get paid $87,000,000 for the 3 seasons when he is 39, 40, & 41 years old. Not sure even he has built up the reputation to warrant that contract.

 

Some team was gonna pay for him, maybe not that long but that's how you're going to have to sway a guy from signing with another team. Mo $$ or mo yrs.

 

 

[greg775]

s*** happens. Those players earned those contracts, GMs can't forsee the future.

 

I'm saying nobody should get one of these contracts. Then the problem would be solved and a "decent" box seat might cost 20 bucks instead of 60. As far as my silly little tangent, Ben Maller is the one who started it. I'm just responding to the current bust, Kemp.

Edited July 19, 2013 by greg775

[2nd_city_saint787]

I'm saying nobody should get one of these contracts. Then the problem would be solved and a "decent" box seat might cost 20 bucks instead of 60. As far as my silly little tangent, Ben Maller is the one who started it. I'm just responding to the current bust, Kemp.

 

Good job you found a quote from radio host in New Zealand who agrees with your stance on "ill advised contracts".

 

This obviously stems from your comments on Dunn and Danks.

 

 

 

[LittleHurt05]

I'm saying nobody should get one of these contracts. Then the problem would be solved and a "decent" box seat might cost 20 bucks instead of 60. As far as my silly little tangent, Ben Maller is the one who started it. I'm just responding to the current bust, Kemp.

 

You sound like an old man stuck in the 50s. "Back in my day, a pack of baseball cards cost 5 cents, and you got a free piece of gum too." Like it or not, but those $60 box seats sell, so they aren't disappearing, especially with the influx of TV/internet advertising money coming in.

 

And the reason GMs spend so much money on players is to appease fans like you who demand winning baseball. If the Dodgers didn't give Kemp that money, the fanbase would be pissed that the cheapskate owners couldn't keep a homegrown star and no one would sit in those box seats. And how is a 28-year old with six years left on his deal a "bust" already? He can get healthy and keep raking in the future.

[witesoxfan]

Good job you found a quote from radio host in New Zealand who agrees with your stance on "ill advised contracts".

 

This obviously stems from your comments on Dunn and Danks.

 

Ben Maller is a pretty good authority on baseball, don't let the New Zealand thing fool you.

 

Related: here's the opening paragraph of his Wiki entry right now

 

wqefwqefwqe

 

Benjamin "Big Ben" Maller is a big poopy face and he pooos (born April 29, 1975)[1] is an Americanpoo pooo pooo sports radio host, for Fox Sports Radio where he hosts a program on weekend nights, and previously the big pooo. Maller is also one of the original sports bloggers, with his popular website BenMaller.com, Ben has been credited with breaking several stories over the years. In addition, Maller joined NBC Sports Network as a regular contributor to NBC SportsTalk in late 2011 until the spring of 2012.

Edited July 19, 2013 by witesoxfan

[hogan873]

Some contracts work out, some don't. The Dunn contract, we can all agree, was an overpay. But, there is nothing that can be done about that now. Fans are still going to the games, paying for the seats, buying beer and hotdogs, and paying for parking. These big contracts aren't going away. Unfortunately, GMs have to look at past performance, and rely on what they've seen, before making offers. If they see something that concerns them about a potential injury or slump, they're not going to make that huge offer. Since you are obviously refering to Dunn with this thread, I think most people saw the signing as decent due to his past performance. He wasn't going to be an old guy at the end of the contract, and he was one of the most consistent power hitters in the game for years. No one, not even Adam Dunn, thought 2011 would be so disatrous.

 

 

[harfman77]

The biggest issue I see is that the way the arbitration/team control system is structured most players are at the tail end of their prime years when they hit free agency. St Louis' front office looks like a group of geniuses for letting Pujols walk. On the flip side, Miguel Cabrera is signed to a relatively team friendly contract. When he hits free agency in two years some team is going to overspend for the later half of his 30's.

[Dick Allen]

Of the 45 MLB contracts $100 million and over, in at least 38 or 39 cases, the team handing out the contract most likely regrets it.

 

I don't know why Greg is getting ripped. He happens to be right.

[Balta1701]

The thing to remember about big money free agent deals is that when you sign them, you do so understanding that this player should help you win right now. You're paying the win-now premium on a guy. The off years at the end of the deal are the result of paying that premium price.

 

Yes the Yankees hate ARoid now, but if you gave them the option of voiding his deal if they relinquished te 2009 World Series title, what would they say?

[LittleHurt05]

Of the 45 MLB contracts $100 million and over, in at least 38 or 39 cases, the team handing out the contract most likely regrets it.

 

I don't know why Greg is getting ripped. He happens to be right.

 

The last 6 World Series champions have all had at least one $100 million contract.

[Eminor3rd]

I don't think anyone disagrees that you'd rather not give players huge money, long-term contracts because of all the risk involved. That said, individual teams don;t get to set the market -- this is simply the price of admission. These contracts get signed where supply meets demand.

[witesoxfan]

The last 6 World Series champions have all had at least one $100 million contract.

 

TRIVIA: Who was the last team to win a World Series without someone on the team making an 8 digit figure?

[Y2Jimmy0]

TRIVIA: Who was the last team to win a World Series without someone on the team making an 8 digit figure?

 

Ummm...2005 White Sox?

[witesoxfan]

Ummm...2005 White Sox?

 

Yay, you win the prize

[greg775]

Of the 45 MLB contracts $100 million and over, in at least 38 or 39 cases, the team handing out the contract most likely regrets it.

 

I don't know why Greg is getting ripped. He happens to be right.

I just want to keep repeating it over and over and over until somebody notices!

 

I don't think anyone disagrees that you'd rather not give players huge money, long-term contracts because of all the risk involved. That said, individual teams don;t get to set the market -- this is simply the price of admission. These contracts get signed where supply meets demand.

But I'm saying there should NOT be the demand. I keep reading about guys who are "untradeable." These guys are the ones fans and owners were drooling over shortly before they became untradeable. JUST SAY NO. Don't sign guys to long-term deals and maybe I can go sit in a box seat for 20 f***ing dollars and not have to pay 20 bucks to park!!!! And not pay 15 bucks for an All American hot dog and beer! Baseball was not invented as an elitist game, folks.

[LittleHurt05]

I just want to keep repeating it over and over and over until somebody notices!

 

 

But I'm saying there should NOT be the demand. I keep reading about guys who are "untradeable." These guys are the ones fans and owners were drooling over shortly before they became untradeable. JUST SAY NO. Don't sign guys to long-term deals and maybe I can go sit in a box seat for 20 f***ing dollars and not have to pay 20 bucks to park!!!! And not pay 15 bucks for an All American hot dog and beer! Baseball was not invented as an elitist game, folks.

 

There are hundreds of parks all over the country with cheap tickets & free parking & $1 hot dogs. It's called minor league baseball. If you are so concerned about the financial aspect, then just root for a minor league team, screw the big leagues.

[Dick Allen]

There are hundreds of parks all over the country with cheap tickets & free parking & $1 hot dogs. It's called minor league baseball. If you are so concerned about the financial aspect, then just root for a minor league team, screw the big leagues.

Obnoxiously priced concessions are everywhere. I saw a sign on 7 11 today where 2 24 oz. Buds were $4. At a concert at Northerly Island, it would set you back $26 plus the workers would be looking for a tip.

[Eminor3rd]

I just want to keep repeating it over and over and over until somebody notices!

 

 

But I'm saying there should NOT be the demand. I keep reading about guys who are "untradeable." These guys are the ones fans and owners were drooling over shortly before they became untradeable. JUST SAY NO. Don't sign guys to long-term deals and maybe I can go sit in a box seat for 20 f***ing dollars and not have to pay 20 bucks to park!!!! And not pay 15 bucks for an All American hot dog and beer! Baseball was not invented as an elitist game, folks.

 

That's not how economics work, Greg. The owners don't set prices based on what it takes to pay their players. They set prices at the maximum level people will pay (maximize revenue), and then they invest the required money in players to keep their fans interested (minimize cost) and remain profitable.

[lostfan]

I just want to keep repeating it over and over and over until somebody notices!

 

 

But I'm saying there should NOT be the demand. I keep reading about guys who are "untradeable." These guys are the ones fans and owners were drooling over shortly before they became untradeable. JUST SAY NO. Don't sign guys to long-term deals and maybe I can go sit in a box seat for 20 f***ing dollars and not have to pay 20 bucks to park!!!! And not pay 15 bucks for an All American hot dog and beer! Baseball was not invented as an elitist game, folks.

I'm saying Israel and the Palestinians should have a peace deal, and Congress should work on the economy and address the deficit in a way that's fair to everyone, and we can buy stuff made in America and stop buying Chinese stuff, and work on terraforming Mars, and a list of a whole bunch of other things that are never going to happen

[greg775]

That's not how economics work, Greg. The owners don't set prices based on what it takes to pay their players. They set prices at the maximum level people will pay (maximize revenue), and then they invest the required money in players to keep their fans interested (minimize cost) and remain profitable.

 

You say, 'then they invest the required money in players to keep their fans interested.' I'm saying fans would be more interested if they JUST SAY NO to mega, multi-year contracts for guys who fail miserably shortly after signing the contracts. When Adam Dunn is hitting about .160 and Rios is loafing after fly balls you start to wonder how much better life would be as a fan if they were not making all that money. Maybe I could park for 5 bucks and not spend 30 bucks on three beers in a nine-inning game.