LittleHurt05 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 11:13 AM) I'd be disappointed if they deal De Aza, unless they get something really nice for him...the guy seems to really be underappreciated here. Yeah I don't get it. I know he his a bit older, but with him being controlled for a few more years, isn't that the exact type of player the Sox should be looking for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I don't have a problem with dealing De Aza given how he has played this year. He has hit very well, but as myself and others have said, it is not unreasonable to say that he has been the ringleader of this circus. With that said, you have to get good value for him. Given the contract situations, he should have similar value to Rios. Maybe more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 11:13 AM) I'd be disappointed if they deal De Aza, unless they get something really nice for him...the guy seems to really be underappreciated here. I don't get De Aza. He is the face for this weird two years. Last year he did no wrong in the field and on the basepaths until very late in the year. Then over the winter he lost his baseball IQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 09:47 AM) I don't get De Aza. He is the face for this weird two years. Last year he did no wrong in the field and on the basepaths until very late in the year. Then over the winter he lost his baseball IQ. Well, he's definitely not a CF, and his baserunning has left something to be desired, to say the least, but those things can be corrected. The important thing is that he can actually hit and steal bases, and he is relatively affordable. Those things are not necessarily commonplace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez's Ghost Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 11:52 AM) Well, he's definitely not a CF, and his baserunning has left something to be desired, to say the least, but those things can be corrected. The important thing is that he can actually hit and steal bases, and he is relatively affordable. Those things are not necessarily commonplace. He gets bad reads in CF, and his baserunning instincts are borderline laughable. How (and when) could that be correctable? He was cheap to get and we maxed out his value. I won't miss him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 11:52 AM) Well, he's definitely not a CF, and his baserunning has left something to be desired, to say the least, but those things can be corrected. The important thing is that he can actually hit and steal bases, and he is relatively affordable. Those things are not necessarily commonplace. It's about opportunity, De Aza might be the best bat available if he is on the market. The Sox would have to take advantage of that given their current state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 11:56 AM) He gets bad reads in CF, and his baserunning instincts are borderline laughable. How (and when) could that be correctable? He was cheap to get and we maxed out his value. I won't miss him. Like I said earlier, he was fine last year. I don't get what happened. He wasn't great in CF, but he was passable. His baserunning was just fine. Both this year are just awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 09:56 AM) He gets bad reads in CF, and his baserunning instincts are borderline laughable. How (and when) could that be correctable? He was cheap to get and we maxed out his value. I won't miss him. He goes back on the ball terribly in center. He is definitely a LF. His instincts were not that terrible on the basepaths last year. Do you think he just suddenly forgot how? I think he's trying too hard because he realizes if he continues to play well he could have a big payday in front of him eventually. He probably also realizes the team sucks this year so he may as well try and improve his individual stats as much as possible. Fangraphs has him at $5.2 million thus far this year, which would put him around $8 million or so at the end of the year. Considering what he makes, I do not know that we have maxed out his value quite yet. Maybe after 2014? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 11:59 AM) It's about opportunity, De Aza might be the best bat available if he is on the market. The Sox would have to take advantage of that given their current state. I agree Marty. De Aza & Rios may be the best left-handed & right-handed bats on the market respectively. I disagree that you automatically move them, but assuming you can get good value for them you don't hesitate. Plus I think we'll be able to find some OF help in free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Ah the fan paradox. 'this team is so bad/why arent other teams paying up for my team's players i dont get it' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 11:05 AM) If the Sox are going to deal a 3-4 WAR lefty (who is, what, 25 years old?), then they need to get monstrous value in return. We are talking, at minimum, Davidson and Owings, and probably another low level prospect on top (and I've heard that Holmberg kid is good) I think the Sox could walk away with Owings or Davidson, probably not both. A deal with one of them plus Holmberg, Trahan, and Drury would seem about right. It seems the Sox would be wise to clear one of the leftys from the rotation, and Santiago makes the most sense from a value perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) Let's be honest, trading Santiago makes no sense. Your best hope is a prospect turns out as good as him and he's far from peaked. Edited July 23, 2013 by Buehrle>Wood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 11:52 AM) Well, he's definitely not a CF, and his baserunning has left something to be desired, to say the least, but those things can be corrected. The important thing is that he can actually hit and steal bases, and he is relatively affordable. Those things are not necessarily commonplace. I don't know how. This seems to be a weakness on the farm. The minor leaguers seem to have a habit of getting picked off once they come up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 12:44 PM) Let's be honest, trading Santiago makes no sense. Your best hope is a prospect turns out as good as him and he's far from peaked. The problem is, the organization is deep with pitching prospects and has no real offensive prospects. The organization has a done a pretty good job of identifying pitchers and developing them. If you can get some offense back, he is a valuable chip to the right team. Quintana isn't as valuable in a deal as he doesn't have the stuff, but is plenty valuable to the White Sox. Sale is most likely going nowhere, and with Danks you would be moving him at his lowest possible value. In order to get some more balance in the rotation, one should go and Santiago makes the most sense from the return it would net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 The problem is, the organization is deep with pitching prospects and has no real offensive prospects. The organization has a done a pretty good job of identifying pitchers and developing them. If you can get some offense back, he is a valuable chip to the right team. Quintana isn't as valuable in a deal as he doesn't have the stuff, but is plenty valuable to the White Sox. Sale is most likely going nowhere, and with Danks you would be moving him at his lowest possible value. In order to get some more balance in the rotation, one should go and Santiago makes the most sense from the return it would net. If balance in the rotation was more important than being good at pitching, Axelrod would be in the rotation instead of Santiago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 06:35 PM) Ah the fan paradox. 'this team is so bad/why arent other teams paying up for my team's players i dont get it' Good line. I think we have a pile of dung to work with on the trade front (considering the fact our tradeable chips make so much money; average to above-average talent to go with mega dollars). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulstar Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 12:44 PM) Let's be honest, trading Santiago makes no sense. Your best hope is a prospect turns out as good as him and he's far from peaked. If you can get a young impact bat for Santiago or Quintana, that's a trade that would make a whole lot of sense for the Sox. However, any trade like that would likely take place during the offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 01:01 PM) If balance in the rotation was more important than being good at pitching, Axelrod would be in the rotation instead of Santiago. I did not say it was more important, the reason you deal him is to get some offense back. I am just saying of the four LHP's he makes the most sense to deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 07:01 PM) If balance in the rotation was more important than being good at pitching, Axelrod would be in the rotation instead of Santiago. . We would be estastic if we could trade anyone on the roster this side of Sale for a young, cost controlled pitcher who would go on to post a 2.85 ERA and strikes guys out at an elite level. Probably meant we got a Top ten prospect in all of MLB back. Oh wait that is Santiago. I just dont see how we could possibly get fair value for him. If he can learn to keep his pitch count down with a little more development, he will become an ace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 02:12 PM) . We would be estastic if we could trade anyone on the roster this side of Sale for a young, cost controlled pitcher who would go on to post a 2.85 ERA and strikes guys out at an elite level. Probably meant we got a Top ten prospect in all of MLB back. Oh wait that is Santiago. I just dont see how we could possibly get fair value for him. If he can learn to keep his pitch count down with a little more development, he will become an ace. Same thing with Quintana. Both of these guys are young, high-ceiling, LH starting pitchers who could literally be a year away from leading a team's rotation to the playoffs. These guys ought to cost a fortune if someone wants them. I'd listen if someone was willing to offer a fortune, but their price ought to be set by "what their ceiling in a year or two could be". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 12:39 PM) I think the Sox could walk away with Owings or Davidson, probably not both. A deal with one of them plus Holmberg, Trahan, and Drury would seem about right. It seems the Sox would be wise to clear one of the leftys from the rotation, and Santiago makes the most sense from a value perspective. If they can't acquire Owins AND Davidson, plus another piece, then no trade would be done. Both Santiago and Quintana are cost controlled for the next 4 seasons beyond this, and they are great pitchers, 2's or 3's, and they are still very young, unlike De Aza, who is a bit older than your normal cost controlled player. Also, there's no need to clear a lefty from the rotation. Yeah, you'd like balance, but a good pitcher is a good pitcher, regardless of what hand he happens to throw with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 01:21 PM) This is so stupid. Why sell low? I think this season of recovery for John will be great moving forward. When his fastball moves up a couple ticks next year he'll be a sub 4 ERA lefty pitching around 200 IP barring any new setbacks. Fun fact: For starting pitchers throwing more than 60 innings, John Danks is second in BB/9 only to Adam Wainright. That is better than the ultra hyped strike machine Bartolo Colon. Better than Jordan Zimmermann who has had his coming out party this season. Danks will make you eat your words next year. With the fastball gaining velocity, the curveball becoming a useful pitch for him and having had to pitch without his best stuff all of this year, John's stock is on the ups. I hope you're right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 07:21 PM) This is so stupid. Why sell low? I think this seasonneecovactua for John will be great moving forward. When his fastball moves up a couple ticks next year he'll be a sub 4 ERA lefty pitching around 200 IP barring any new setbacks. Fun fact: For starting pitchers throwing more than 60 innings, John Danks is second in BB/9 only to Adam Wainright. That is better than the ultra hyped strike machine Bartolo Colon. Better than Jordan Zimmermann who has had his coming out party this season. Danks will make you eat your words next year. With the fastball gaining velocity, the curveball becoming a useful pitch for him and having had to pitch without his best stuff all of this year, John's stock is on the ups. That's fine but it is still a risk to see if he can return to form. 14.5 million dollars per year is a lot to risk on that. He won't necessarily hurt you but you dump him if you can (you can't and there's a good reason for that). Even if he returns to form he is market value at the absolute best case scenario. Dumping him would allow the Sox to enter 2014 with a great rotation for the cost of about 20 million dollars. That would be huge if they do actually try and compete. They could then go out and make it rain at the free agent positional player club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 03:02 PM) That's fine but it is still a risk to see if he can return to form. 14.5 million dollars per year is a lot to risk on that. He won't necessarily hurt you but you dump him if you can (you can't and there's a good reason for that). Even if he returns to form he is market value at the absolute best case scenario. Dumping him would allow the Sox to enter 2014 with a great rotation for the cost of about 20 million dollars. That would be huge if they do actually try and compete. They could then go out and make it rain at the free agent positional player club. What is the point of having a $20M rotation? Trying to compete with the Marlins? Danks is pretty damn good and it is pretty well established that pitchers dont get all the way back until the year after they return from an arm injury. There is no need to dump payroll from this roster with what is coming off the books already and additional money coming in. Its not like the Sox are going to be a Mecca for free agents. This organization has had a real tough time attracting quality free agents over the years and that doesn't look to change as long as JR is in charge given his affinity for Scott Boras. If this team is going to improve it will need to do so through the trade market, and that means giving up quality to get quality, not dumping salary to take on spare parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 23, 2013 -> 03:28 PM) What is the point of having a $20M rotation? Trying to compete with the Marlins? Danks is pretty damn good and it is pretty well established that pitchers dont get all the way back until the year after they return from an arm injury. There is no need to dump payroll from this roster with what is coming off the books already and additional money coming in. Its not like the Sox are going to be a Mecca for free agents. This organization has had a real tough time attracting quality free agents over the years and that doesn't look to change as long as JR is in charge given his affinity for Scott Boras. If this team is going to improve it will need to do so through the trade market, and that means giving up quality to get quality, not dumping salary to take on spare parts. Uhh, if you can limit your spending somewhere, you can spend more elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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