Rios pulled from game

[chw42]

Rios hurt the team. Not Ventura. Every GM in baseball knows what they are getting in Rios. .... Can you say, selfish?

 

The organization shouldn't really care if the team wins for the rest of the year or not. Rios not running out a ground ball that cost the Sox 1 run in a more or less meaningless game isn't a huge deal. What is a big deal is Robin Ventura telling everyone he benched Rios because he didn't run out a ball hard. Now you might be stuck with Rios because nobody else wants him. How does that help the future of this team? Ventura blew up a non-issue.

 

If you're Robin Ventura, you probably shouldn't care about what kind of baseball player Alex Rios is at this point. He's going to get traded. But it's so f***ing stupid to degrade the guy's value right before he's going to get traded.

 

You're not seeing the big picture here Greg. Losing one run during a game in a lost season is meaningless. Losing out on a better prospect who can help the team in the long run is meaningful. I know you hate Alex Rios, but that doesn't mean you have to hate what he's going to get traded for too.

Edited July 20, 2013 by chw42

[chw42]

I am on board with those who say Rios isn't the only guy who loafs to first on a hard hit ball to the SS. 99.9% of the time that is an easy DP. Rio knew that and put his head down in disgust.....Can't remember how many times we've seen our captain PK do the exact same thing.

 

I don't think RV handled correctly.

 

PK's great at doing that.

 

[oldsox]

When Rios was removed, was it when the team was still on the field or at the end of the inning?

[Balta1701]

When Rios was removed, was it when the team was still on the field or at the end of the inning?

It was between innings.

 

After he loafed into the double play he went straight to RF without going to the dugout. He fielded that half inning, did not come up during the home side, and then Wells took over RF the next time out.

[Dick Allen]

The organization shouldn't really care if the team wins for the rest of the year or not. Rios not running out a ground ball that cost the Sox 1 run in a more or less meaningless game isn't a huge deal. What is a big deal is Robin Ventura telling everyone he benched Rios because he didn't run out a ball hard. Now you might be stuck with Rios because nobody else wants him. How does that help the future of this team? Ventura blew up a non-issue.

 

If you're Robin Ventura, you probably shouldn't care about what kind of baseball player Alex Rios is at this point. He's going to get traded. But it's so f***ing stupid to degrade the guy's value right before he's going to get traded.

 

You're not seeing the big picture here Greg. Losing one run during a game in a lost season is meaningless. Losing out on a better prospect who can help the team in the long run is meaningful. I know you hate Alex Rios, but that doesn't mean you have to hate what he's going to get traded for too.

Again, it is no secret Rios dogged it. He even admitted it. Ventura did nothing wrong. He held Rios accountable and put the White Sox, not Rios' feelings, first. Maybe it woke Rios up a little bit.

 

Big picture is the White Sox future. Chances are, Rios is going to be around for a while.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Dick Allen

[oldsox]

It was between innings.

 

After he loafed into the double play he went straight to RF without going to the dugout. He fielded that half inning, did not come up during the home side, and then Wells took over RF the next time out.

Did not see it, but that's the way I thought it was. Only twice have I ever seen a Mgr. pull a player out of a game from the field for disciplinary reasons. One was when Billy Martin pulled Reggie Jackson out of right field, and they almost got into it in the dugout. The other was when Bobby Cox pulled Andru Jones out of center field for dogging it both in the field and on the bases. Takes guts for the Mgr. to do it; don't see why it doesn't happen more often.

[LittleHurt05]

I would question if this was going to hurt the clubhouse, but they have played all year like a broken team anyways. Hopefully Rios hits 4 homers today.

 

How about a 4-run homer?

[chw42]

Again, it is no secret Rios dogged it. He even admitted it. Ventura did nothing wrong. He held Rios accountable and put the White Sox, not Rios' feelings, first. Maybe it woke Rios up a little bit.

 

Big picture is the White Sox future. Chances are, Rios is going to be around for a while.

 

Rios is gone after 2014.

 

If the team really wants to rebuild, there is no reason for them to keep Rios.

 

[greg775]

The organization shouldn't really care if the team wins for the rest of the year or not. Rios not running out a ground ball that cost the Sox 1 run in a more or less meaningless game isn't a huge deal. What is a big deal is Robin Ventura telling everyone he benched Rios because he didn't run out a ball hard. Now you might be stuck with Rios because nobody else wants him. How does that help the future of this team? Ventura blew up a non-issue.

 

If you're Robin Ventura, you probably shouldn't care about what kind of baseball player Alex Rios is at this point. He's going to get traded. But it's so f***ing stupid to degrade the guy's value right before he's going to get traded.

 

You're not seeing the big picture here Greg. Losing one run during a game in a lost season is meaningless. Losing out on a better prospect who can help the team in the long run is meaningful. I know you hate Alex Rios, but that doesn't mean you have to hate what he's going to get traded for too.

 

First of all, Sox fans are being ripped on Twitter for being mad at Ventura, so I'm not the only one who feels the way I do.

Secondly, you and I disagree on Rios certainly being traded. I, for one, don't think anybody is going to a.) give up any real talent for Rios and b.) isn't going to take Rios without wanting significant dollars from the White Sox. I personally don't see the Sox giving a team a lot of money in the deal when the return will be very very fringe prospects. Now, the fact the Giants once acquired Jose Guillen from the Royals makes me aware some team MIGHT be willing to take the sometimes lazy Rios off the Sox hands. Guillen also loafed at times and the Royals were finally able to dump him. But I do believe that was in the LAST YEAR of Guillen's deal with KC. In other words, I think it's 40-60 that Rios actually even gets traded. I do believe he may remain a White Sox til that contract mercifully expires.

 

I don't really understand how Robin gets ripped in this Rios scenario. Rios is the guy who dogged it, do we agree on that? Robin did the only thing he could do to maintain respect in the game of baseball. Rios dogs it in the opening game of the second half of the season with the score tied for godsakes. If it was 8-2 Atlanta at the time, MAYBE you overlook Rios' stealing of a paycheck, but not in a 2-2 game. Robin's reputation was ON THE LINE, folks. Robin did the right thing and he has a new fan in me.

I want Robin to manage the team as long as he wants to, now.

Edited July 21, 2013 by greg775

[southsideirish71]

First of all, Sox fans are being ripped on Twitter for being mad at Ventura, so I'm not the only one who feels the way I do.

Secondly, you and I disagree on Rios certainly being traded. I, for one, don't think anybody is going to a.) give up any real talent for Rios and b.) isn't going to take Rios without wanting significant dollars from the White Sox. I personally don't see the Sox giving a team a lot of money in the deal when the return will be very very fringe prospects. Now, the fact the Giants once acquired Jose Guillen from the Royals makes me aware some team MIGHT be willing to take the sometimes lazy Rios off the Sox hands. Guillen also loafed at times and the Royals were finally able to dump him. But I do believe that was in the LAST YEAR of Guillen's deal with KC. In other words, I think it's 40-60 that Rios actually even gets traded. I do believe he may remain a White Sox til that contract mercifully expires.

 

I don't really understand how Robin gets ripped in this Rios scenario. Rios is the guy who dogged it, do we agree on that? Robin did the only thing he could do to maintain respect in the game of baseball. Rios dogs it in the opening game of the second half of the season with the score tied for godsakes. If it was 8-2 Atlanta at the time, MAYBE you overlook Rios' stealing of a paycheck, but not in a 2-2 game. Robin's reputation was ON THE LINE, folks. Robin did the right thing and he has a new fan in me.

I want Robin to manage the team as long as he wants to, now.

 

Did Rios piss on your Ozzie Guillen number 1 fan poster.

 

[2nd_city_saint787]

First of all, Sox fans are being ripped on Twitter for being mad at Ventura, so I'm not the only one who feels the way I do.

Secondly, you and I disagree on Rios certainly being traded. I, for one, don't think anybody is going to a.) give up any real talent for Rios and b.) isn't going to take Rios without wanting significant dollars from the White Sox. I personally don't see the Sox giving a team a lot of money in the deal when the return will be very very fringe prospects. Now, the fact the Giants once acquired Jose Guillen from the Royals makes me aware some team MIGHT be willing to take the sometimes lazy Rios off the Sox hands. Guillen also loafed at times and the Royals were finally able to dump him. But I do believe that was in the LAST YEAR of Guillen's deal with KC. In other words, I think it's 40-60 that Rios actually even gets traded. I do believe he may remain a White Sox til that contract mercifully expires.

 

I don't really understand how Robin gets ripped in this Rios scenario. Rios is the guy who dogged it, do we agree on that? Robin did the only thing he could do to maintain respect in the game of baseball. Rios dogs it in the opening game of the second half of the season with the score tied for godsakes. If it was 8-2 Atlanta at the time, MAYBE you overlook Rios' stealing of a paycheck, but not in a 2-2 game. Robin's reputation was ON THE LINE, folks. Robin did the right thing and he has a new fan in me.

I want Robin to manage the team as long as he wants to, now.

 

Lol man greg you are classic, the Ozzie Guillen of this message board no doubt.

 

What are your thoughts on PK famously dogging it to first ever so often when he hits a ground ball right at a guy? I believe soxtalk even started using the phrase "mean mugs and shoulder shrugs" (or something close to that, idk if we went all Nelly on him) at his lackadaisical-ness when it came to running to first. Now I know PK isn't the athlete Rios is so I can feed your rebuttal with that but still...Is he lazy? Is he stealing a paycheck?

 

It was a hard hit ground ball right at Simmons, who by the way was being praised for his D in todays game, that should have been as routine as it gets. I don't blame him for being frustrated with the ab, putting his head down, and basically becoming Paul Konerko for a second.

 

I'd venture to believe a good deal of major leaguers would have done the same.

[greg775]

Lol man greg you are classic, the Ozzie Guillen of this message board no doubt.

 

What are your thoughts on PK famously dogging it to first ever so often when he hits a ground ball right at a guy? I believe soxtalk even started using the phrase "mean mugs and shoulder shrugs" (or something close to that, idk if we went all Nelly on him) at his lackadaisical-ness when it came to running to first. Now I know PK isn't the athlete Rios is so I can feed your rebuttal with that but still...Is he lazy? Is he stealing a paycheck?

 

It was a hard hit ground ball right at Simmons, who by the way was being praised for his D in todays game, that should have been as routine as it gets. I don't blame him for being frustrated with the ab, putting his head down, and basically becoming Paul Konerko for a second.

 

I'd venture to believe a good deal of major leaguers would have done the same.

 

I think Paulie should be disciplined as well if he's obviously dogging it. He's so slow, however, it's hard to tell even with the shoulder shrug.

[Dick Allen]

Rios is gone after 2014.

 

If the team really wants to rebuild, there is no reason for them to keep Rios.

Rios' trade value isn't affected by Ventura sitting him. It is affected by Rios dogging it. My point is Rios' is probably as close to being traded as more than half the White Sox. The reports were the Sox were dissappointed in what was being discussed. Rosenthal even speculated the Sox would have to throw cash and/or a prospect to take him off their hands.

 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Rios' trade value isn't affected by Ventura sitting him. It is affected by Rios dogging it. My point is Rios' is probably as close to being traded as more than half the White Sox. The reports were the Sox were dissappointed in what was being discussed. Rosenthal even speculated the Sox would have to throw cash and/or a prospect to take him off their hands.

I think you completely misunderstood Rosenthal's point. He's not saying we can't move Rios, which is what your "take him off their hands" comment seems to imply. He's trying to say for the Sox to get what they want, which is near major league ready position prospects, they would have to throw in money or even some lower level prospects. A team won't take on his full salary and give us that type of return. Again, that doesn't mean Rosenthal thinks we can't move him or that Rios doesn't have value.

 

I think we all take these little twitter updates for way more than they're worth anyways. Who is leaking all this information to these writers in the first place? GMs and other front office personal with a motive to increase the demand for or hide their interest in certain players. Every one of these updates should be taken with a grain of salt, because they're all mostly bulls*** to begin with. Rather, it's better to look at supply & demand and historical deadline trends to set expectations.

[Jake]

Rios is gone after 2014.

 

If the team really wants to rebuild, there is no reason for them to keep Rios.

 

I'm pretty sure that "rebuild" in the White Sox FO means they will spend one year retooling/trying out young guys before making a push to win in 2015 followed by (hopefully) a World Series or two and then a half decade or so of near misses which will get fans to call for the firing of Hahn. Nothing major

[TaylorStSox]

Sox fans are a funny bunch. Nobody dogged it more than AJ. Seriously, he loafed, complained, and cried more than anybody, yet people put him on a pedestal. I guess you have to throw your bat to prove you care.

[Dick Allen]

I think you completely misunderstood Rosenthal's point. He's not saying we can't move Rios, which is what your "take him off their hands" comment seems to imply. He's trying to say for the Sox to get what they want, which is near major league ready position prospects, they would have to throw in money or even some lower level prospects. A team won't take on his full salary and give us that type of return. Again, that doesn't mean Rosenthal thinks we can't move him or that Rios doesn't have value.

 

I think we all take these little twitter updates for way more than they're worth anyways. Who is leaking all this information to these writers in the first place? GMs and other front office personal with a motive to increase the demand for or hide their interest in certain players. Every one of these updates should be taken with a grain of salt, because they're all mostly bulls*** to begin with. Rather, it's better to look at supply & demand and historical deadline trends to set expectations.

As I stated before, his value is not anywhere near what some think. The report that the Pirates wanted him and Alexei was great, the only problem is when have they ever picked up that kind of money, and why would the Sox send enough money to make the Pirates really interested? He isn't bringing the Sox a top of the line prospect. He isn't or at least wasn't "about to be traded" when he was correctly told to sit down the other night. Anyone who wants to put any blame on Ventura for Rios' " trade value" simply doesn't have any idea what they are talking about. There is a better chance Rios is a White Sox on 8/1 than not. Of course Rios can be traded if the Sox eat enough money, that's not unique.

[elrockinMT]

As I stated before, his value is not anywhere near what some think. The report that the Pirates wanted him and Alexei was great, the only problem is when have they ever picked up that kind of money, and why would the Sox send enough money to make the Pirates really interested? He isn't bringing the Sox a top of the line prospect. He isn't or at least wasn't "about to be traded" when he was correctly told to sit down the other night. Anyone who wants to put any blame on Ventura for Rios' " trade value" simply doesn't have any idea what they are talking about. There is a better chance Rios is a White Sox on 8/1 than not. Of course Rios can be traded if the Sox eat enough money, that's not unique.

 

I for one hope we do have Rios after the trade deadline and into next year. I think he is as good an OF'er and hitter with speed as anyone we have on the team and in our system. He is in demand, but the one that we should be discussing is Viciedo. What is up with that guy? He has an above average arm and it's exciting to see him throw out baserunners but where is his hitting? Where are the homers we saw in 2012? I sure don't want to see us give up Rios for some AA prospect and then throw in cash at the same time, if in fact he is traded. Rios offensively has contributed to the Sox in a positive manner. I don't see this team in a must trade situation where we tear everything down to rebuild. Tweaking works just fine for me

Edited July 21, 2013 by elrockinMT

[Dick Allen]

I for one hope we do have Rios after the trade deadline and into next year. I think he is as good an OF'er and hitter with speed as anyone we have on the team and in our system. He is in demand, but the one that we should be discussing is Viciedo. What is up with that guy? He has an above average arm and it's exciting to see him throw out baserunners but where is his hitting? Where are the homers we saw in 2012? I sure don't want to see us give up Rios for some AA prospect and then throw in cash at the same time, if in fact he is traded. Rios offensively has contributed to the Sox in a positive manner. I don't see this team in a must trade situation where we tear everything down to rebuild. Tweaking works just fine for me

I agree with you. Plus Rios is essentially playing for a contract next year, which should give him some extra incentive. If they are getting crappy offers for him, and wanting the Sox to pick up cash, keep him.

[Chicago White Sox]

I for one hope we do have Rios after the trade deadline and into next year. I think he is as good an OF'er and hitter with speed as anyone we have on the team and in our system. He is in demand, but the one that we should be discussing is Viciedo. What is up with that guy? He has an above average arm and it's exciting to see him throw out baserunners but where is his hitting? Where are the homers we saw in 2012? I sure don't want to see us give up Rios for some AA prospect and then throw in cash at the same time, if in fact he is traded. Rios offensively has contributed to the Sox in a positive manner. I don't see this team in a must trade situation where we tear everything down to rebuild. Tweaking works just fine for me

We have the 3rd worst record in baseball. Tweaking isn't going to solve our problems. You can keep avoiding this hard truth all you want, but thank god Rick Hahn doesn't share your optimism. Change is coming in the next 10 days and it is much needed.

 

Having said that, we have a championship caliber rotation in place, even if we move Peavy. That's a great starting point and provides us with an opportunity to become competitive again much sooner than some people realize. However, for that to happen, Hahn needs to cash in on some assets at the deadline and acquire a couple of young bats that can be part of the core going forward. If Hahn can accomplish that and acquire a couple bats in free agency over the next two years, I think 2015 is realistic to be legit playoff contenders again.

 

Again, the key here is acquiring two young bats that we can develop in 2014 along with Beckham, Viciedo, Phegley, & possibly Gillaspie. The sooner we have some young, cost-controlled hitters in the lineup that we can actually count on the sooner we will be competitive.

[chw42]

Rios' trade value isn't affected by Ventura sitting him. It is affected by Rios dogging it. My point is Rios' is probably as close to being traded as more than half the White Sox. The reports were the Sox were dissappointed in what was being discussed. Rosenthal even speculated the Sox would have to throw cash and/or a prospect to take him off their hands.

 

Nobody would have cared about Rios dogging it if Ventura didn't pull him and mention it to the media.

 

But now it's a national story.

[Dick Allen]

We have the 3rd worst record in baseball. Tweaking isn't going to solve our problems. You can keep avoiding this hard truth all you want, but thank god Rick Hahn doesn't share your optimism. Change is coming in the next 10 days and it is much needed.

 

Having said that, we have a championship caliber rotation in place, even if we move Peavy. That's a great starting point and provides us with an opportunity to become competitive again much sooner than some people realize. However, for that to happen, Hahn needs to cash in on some assets at the deadline and acquire a couple of young bats that can be part of the core going forward. If Hahn can accomplish that and acquire a couple bats in free agency over the next two years, I think 2015 is realistic to be legit playoff contenders again.

 

Again, the key here is acquiring two young bats that we can develop in 2014 along with Beckham, Viciedo, Phegley, & possibly Gillaspie. The sooner we have some young, cost-controlled hitters in the lineup that we can actually count on the sooner we will be competitive.

Have you talked to Rick? Publicly he has been far more optimistic about the White Sox immediate future than anyone. Pitching is there, they need offense. The 1976 White Sox were one of the worst White Sox teams ever, the next year they were the Southside Hitmen. This year has been quite simialr to 2007, when for a decent part of the season, the Sox had the worst record in baseball. 2008, they were in the playoffs.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Dick Allen

[Chicago White Sox]

Have you talked to Rick? Publicly he has been far more optimistic about the White Sox immediate future than anyone. Pitching is there, they need offense. The 1976 White Sox were one of the worst White Sox teams ever, the next year they were the Southside Hitmen. This year has been quite simialr to 2007, when for a decent part of the season, the Sox had the worst record in baseball. 2008, they were in the playoffs.

Rick is paid to be a salesman, both in terms of selling players to opposing GMs and selling tickets to fans. He's never going to tell the full truth nor should he.

 

I know you watch this team on a daily basis and will admit the offense is horrific. We need some big changes (more OBP & better contact) before we can truly contend for a World Series and I don't see how Hahn can disagree with that. The good news is we have assets in Peavy & Crain (and possibly others) that we can use to help improve our offense. We should also have quite a bit of money to play with over the next two offseasons. If Hahn makes the right moves, he can turn things around pretty quickly. If not, it's going to take much longer because we don't have any prospects in our system who will likely be ready before the 2015 season and we can't fill all our needs in free agency.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I posted late last night in the game thread that this offense has been pretty good, and if the hole wasn't so big to crawl out of that I would share the same thoughts as rockin and sin....To that point here is what our offense has done over the last month.

 

taken from yahoo fantasy baseball..

 

Runs/HRs/RBI/SB/BA

 

De Aza 18 3 10 4 .333

 

Dunn 10 5 17 0 .293

 

Lexi 13 0 9 5 .321

 

Becks 11 2 10 3 .345

 

Rios 10 1 14 7 .258

 

Kepp 9 1 10 0 .317

 

Phegs 7 3 10 0 .278

 

Tank 5 3 9 0 .263

 

Conor9 2 7 0 .230

 

 

If the hole wasn't so big and they could replace Conor with a middle of the order bat they very well could have competed down the stretch...If the bats held up to what they were doing over the last month.

[ChiSox59]

I for one hope we do have Rios after the trade deadline and into next year. I think he is as good an OF'er and hitter with speed as anyone we have on the team and in our system. He is in demand, but the one that we should be discussing is Viciedo. What is up with that guy? He has an above average arm and it's exciting to see him throw out baserunners but where is his hitting? Where are the homers we saw in 2012? I sure don't want to see us give up Rios for some AA prospect and then throw in cash at the same time, if in fact he is traded. Rios offensively has contributed to the Sox in a positive manner. I don't see this team in a must trade situation where we tear everything down to rebuild. Tweaking works just fine for me

 

I have said it over, over, and over again. The SOX will NOT trade Rios (or Peavy) unless they get what they want.