Sox turn down trade offer for Alexei from Cardinals

[hogan873]

Heyman is reporting that the Sox did NOT turn down this trade. Apparently Martinez was not offered.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I've seen Beckham make enough plays at 2B to both his left and his right to think he'd be more than fine at SS. At the very least he'd be better than Peralta and we've seen how far a team can go with him at SS.

 

Martinez for Lexi is just to good to be true.

[GreatScott82]

Heyman is reporting that the Sox did NOT turn down this trade. Apparently Martinez was not offered.

Yikes. This makes Gonzalez look like a tool box!

[hogan873]

Yikes. This makes Gonzalez look like a tool box!

Yeah, he's not saying what the deal was, just that Martinez was not part of it. Makes a little more sense why the Sox didn't agree.

[southsider2k5]

Heyman is reporting that the Sox did NOT turn down this trade. Apparently Martinez was not offered.

 

It makes me wonder if this was intentionally leaked to try to drive market value for Alexei. The Chicago guys rarely break stories like this, and the timing is peculiar to say the least.

[iamshack]

It makes me wonder if this was intentionally leaked to try to drive market value for Alexei. The Chicago guys rarely break stories like this, and the timing is peculiar to say the least.

Yeah, that's what 90% of this stuff is.

 

You have to ask yourself, who is leaking this info and why? Anyone who gives info to a national reporter is doing so for a reason, otherwise, they would be risking their own jobs.

 

I usually take their rumors as posturing by the Clubs.

[witesoxfan]

I had posted this elsewhere, but every review of Gordon's shortstop defense from college all the way through the minors said he had everything you need to be a shortstop -- plenty of range, plenty of arm, athleticism, etc. Their only question was his hands and I think we can see at 2B that he actually has exceptional hands

 

Except that those reports are outdated. I agree that I'd like to see him given a shot, but I really think he is stretched to the limit at 2B.

 

Here are his fielding metrics career wise at 2B

 

DpR- 5.5

RngR- -4

ErrR- 1.3

 

And here are the fan ratings from last year (using one year sample size given the idea that players will improve and fans can see this, which is flawed but this is going to support him the most anyways)

 

Instincts - 76

First step - 68

Speed - 59

Hands - 77

Release - 77

Arm Strength - 61

Accuracy - 77

OVERALL - 71

 

Compare that to Ramirez, who consistently shows good RngR's (a range (PUN) of 4.1-7.4) and that is backed by fan's ratings of him

 

Instincts - 77

First step - 79

Speed - 66

Hands - 70

Release - 72

Arm Strength - 77

Accuracy - 68

OVERALL - 73

 

 

(fan rankings are from 2012)

 

As I've said, I'd like to see Beckham at SS the rest of the way, but I think 2B is going to ultimately be his best position.

 

 

Heyman is reporting that the Sox did NOT turn down this trade. Apparently Martinez was not offered.

 

Heyman's source said the Sox did not turn down the trade. This is one of the great misinformation times of the year.

[flavum]

Looks like we've entered the annoying Fake or Incomplete Rumors portion of the trade deadline period.

[TaylorStSox]

Beckham at SS would be a disaster. Jesus.

[beck72]

Basically, Alexei is right at the top of the list of "guys who, if we trade, makes it inevitable that 2014 is a rebuilding season". He's about the most difficult guy on our roster to replace next year.

 

That means the price for Alexei should be high, with enough return to warrant "Throwing in the towel for next year despite a solid pitching staff".

i dont think the Sox are throwing in the towel for 2014. that's why unless the sox get a replacement SS who can start next year, or are completely blown away by an offer for Alexei, I don't see him being traded.

[Marty34]

Beckham at SS would be a disaster. Jesus.

 

He's not the long-term answer, but neither is Ramirez.

[Marty34]

i dont think the Sox are throwing in the towel for 2014. that's why unless the sox get a replacement SS who can start next year, or are completely blown away by an offer for Alexei, I don't see him being traded.

 

If the rest of the Sox team is good enough next year to win (highly doubtful), I'm sure they'd find a SS to approximate Ramirez production. Besides, it's not like they haven't given away playoff opportunities before to develop players. See Viciedo as opposed to Quentin in LF last year.

[hogan873]

If the rest of the Sox team is good enough next year to win (highly doubtful), I'm sure they'd find a SS to approximate Ramirez production. Besides, it's not like they haven't given away playoff opportunities before to develop players. See Viciedo as opposed to Quentin in LF last year.

Christ, here we go again.

[mike65]

Cardinals GM Mozeliak just said "that no such offer was made" referring, of course, to the Martinez - Ramirez rumor.

 

Now, the Cardinals GM chooses his words carefully. Interpreting, Mozeliak just said that it wasn't a two player offer.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

Christ, here we go again.

It's not over till Marty says it's over.

[harfman77]

If the rest of the Sox team is good enough next year to win (highly doubtful), I'm sure they'd find a SS to approximate Ramirez production. Besides, it's not like they haven't given away playoff opportunities before to develop players. See Viciedo as opposed to Quentin in LF last year.

 

Teams dont trade SS's with production like Ramirez because they are too difficult to replace. SS is largely a defensive position and getting a guy that can add solid offense from that position is a gold mine. In theory in works, but in practice there just aren't guys out there that you can acquire that fit the bill.

[sircaffey]

Teams dont trade SS's with production like Ramirez because they are too difficult to replace. SS is largely a defensive position and getting a guy that can add solid offense from that position is a gold mine. In theory in works, but in practice there just aren't guys out there that you can acquire that fit the bill.

Define solid offense? A .650 OPS is solid? Alexei's production is so replaceable it's not even funny. Even a worst case scenario, going from a .650 OPS to a .550 OPS at SS is a negligible drop, especially if you are getting a potential true impact player.

[Balta1701]

Define solid offense? A .650 OPS is solid? Alexei's production is so replaceable it's not even funny. Even a worst case scenario, going from a .650 OPS to a .550 OPS at SS is a negligible drop, especially if you are getting a potential true impact player.

If you really think Alexei is easily replaceable, just remember that the Red Sox gave Stephen Drew $9.5 million this year after he put up a .657 OPS last year while playing only 79 games. He's hitting .228 this year with a .712 OPS for that money.

 

If we don't trade for one, finding a major league quality shortstop on the free agent market, even a 1 year, stopgap measure, is going to be incredibly pricey. That's why I think trading Alexei is the "Throw in the towel" move for next year...you can spend the money to replace Rios, you already have players to replace Peavy, but replacing Alexei will be very difficult if that replacement has to be found through free agency.

[beck72]

You don't have to sign a shortstop. I would be OK with trading Quintana or Santiago for a great shortstop prospect, and that is one of only areas I'm ok with dealing either one of those two.

after all this deadline silliness is over, the sox, even with a few very good additions, will still have big holes to fill. I'm all on board for trading Santiago in the offseason-whether it's SS, or elsewhere-to help net a position player or two.

[Paulstar]

Beckham at SS would be a disaster. Jesus.

There is no reason why Beckham should not be given a shot at SS if/when Alexei is traded. He is so much more valuable to this team if he can prove to be a solid defensive SS (no reason to think he can't be as he has all the tools to be at least solid and make all the routine plays) as opposed to being a very good defensive 2B.

 

If he proves he can't cut it at SS, fine. But to completely write him off as a SS without seeing him play more than 2 innings there is silly.

[Eminor3rd]

Teams dont trade SS's with production like Ramirez because they are too difficult to replace. SS is largely a defensive position and getting a guy that can add solid offense from that position is a gold mine. In theory in works, but in practice there just aren't guys out there that you can acquire that fit the bill.

 

You mean CONTENDING teams don't trade SS like that. Some of you people are acting like we don;t have the worst record in baseball outside of the Marlins and Astors, two teams not even trying to SEEM like they are trying to win. There are rebuilding teams with better records than us. This team is not good enough to win, Alexei is 32 and getting worse quickly -- he's got to go.

[harfman77]

You mean CONTENDING teams don't trade SS like that. Some of you people are acting like we don;t have the worst record in baseball outside of the Marlins and Astors, two teams not even trying to SEEM like they are trying to win. There are rebuilding teams with better records than us. This team is not good enough to win, Alexei is 32 and getting worse quickly -- he's got to go.

 

Yes, contending teams or teams in the off season. I am not saying we should keep him, I am saying that production at that position, even with the decline he has had the last couple seasons, is hard to replace. Teams aren't going to line up to trade a player like that in the off season.

[Chisoxfn]

IF we could get something valuable for Ramirez, hells yeah. I love the missile but its time to move on. I also have zero problem trying Beck's at short. Key is he's going to have to hit like he did the past month or so to stay there, otherwise Sox will have to find someone else. But s***, I am not concerned about not having a shortstop during a rebuilding year. Sox would have a whole off-season to potentially fill that void.

[Eminor3rd]

Yes, contending teams or teams in the off season. I am not saying we should keep him, I am saying that production at that position, even with the decline he has had the last couple seasons, is hard to replace. Teams aren't going to line up to trade a player like that in the off season.

 

Agreed.

[Wanne]

IF we could get something valuable for Ramirez, hells yeah. I love the missile but its time to move on. I also have zero problem trying Beck's at short. Key is he's going to have to hit like he did the past month or so to stay there, otherwise Sox will have to find someone else. But s***, I am not concerned about not having a shortstop during a rebuilding year. Sox would have a whole off-season to potentially fill that void.

 

I'm getting sick of moving Gordo around...but that's not to say it's not necessary to move him over there when Lexi gets' moved...but I just don't think he's a MLB quality SS. That's why I'm more inclined to get into bed with Arizona to pry Owings away than STL for a Wong deal.