Does anybody think The Plan is to be this left-handed in 2014?

[TaylorStSox]

I don't think I ever said he isn't valuable. He is. But I don't think he's a top 10 pitcher, I think he's hit his peak, we'd be selling high if we trade him as we other teams will also see his value, and I would prefer not to have these same clowns in the field supporting our pitchers next year. Just my opinion.

How can you say he's reached his peak in light if the progress he's made this season? He's raised his velocity considerably since being called up and his change has been downright nasty, at times, over his last few starts.

[lasttriptotulsa]

How can you say he's reached his peak in light if the progress he's made this season? He's raised his velocity considerably since being called up and his change has been downright nasty, at times, over his last few starts.

 

GreenSox has spoken. If he says Quintana has peaked, Quintana has peaked. It doesn't matter that his WHIP, H/9, K/9 and BB/9 rates have all been better this year than last, Quintana has peaked at the ripe old age of 23.

[Jerksticks]

GreenSox has spoken. If he says Quintana has peaked, Quintana has peaked. It doesn't matter that his WHIP, H/9, K/9 and BB/9 rates have all been better this year than last, Quintana has peaked at the ripe old age of 23.

 

Lol. So if Peavy gets us a couple SP prospects then we should no doubt have the depth to trade a Q or Santiago for a ransom of position players. That's how the quick rebuild is done.

[Balta1701]

Lol. So if Peavy gets us a couple SP prospects then we should no doubt have the depth to trade a Q or Santiago for a ransom of position players. That's how the quick rebuild is done.

Heck, I'd be willing to trade Quintana or Santiago for the right price regardless of what happens with Peavy...but the key is "The right price".

 

I think the right price is higher than anyone would reasonably pay.

[Balta1701]

I can honestly see a deal like Santiago for Lawrie + low level prospect. Or Santiago for Ackley + prospects. Not these deals exactly but something along the lines of these.

 

For some reason I just feel like the Sox are aware they can make SP and equally aware they cannot make hitters.

Haven't both of those guys had their stocks fall considerably?

[GreenSox]

I can honestly see a deal like Santiago for Lawrie + low level prospect. Or Santiago for Ackley + prospects. Not these deals exactly but something along the lines of these.

 

For some reason I just feel like the Sox are aware they can make SP and equally aware they cannot make hitters.

What?

Santiago is just coming into his own and is pitching at a high level. People on here want top prospects for Quintana? Santiago's better.

So we want to dump him for a 3B with zero power and a mediocre OBP?

Then we should take the Middlebrooks deal with Boston.

It does scare me that Ventura seems to think he's a middle reliever, so we may give him away like this.

Santiago's getting better....that's not who we need to trade

Edited July 29, 2013 by GreenSox

[TaylorStSox]

What?

Santiago is just coming into his own and is pitching at a high level. People on here want top prospects for Quintana? Santiago's better.

So we want to dump him for a 3B with zero power and a mediocre OBP?

It does scare me that Ventura seems to think he's a middle reliever, so we may give him away like this.

Santiago misses more bats. Quintana has had much better results. As of today, Quintana > Santiago.

[Balta1701]

Sure, but it is not out of the ordinary for teams to buy low. Perhaps I should have said I could see the FO dangling Santiago (maybe Quintana but I feel Santiago) for positional talent this off season.

Like I said, I could certainly see such a thing happening, but again, I think the comp is something like the Matt Latos trade. The Padres got 2 prospects in the top 50 in MLB, give or take, in addition to a major league starting pitcher with a ton of talent (Volquez) and a nearly MLB ready reliever in Brad Boxberger. If someone's willing to offer something similar, a 4 for 1 deal with 4 MLB ready guys, 1 of whom is a guy whose stock has dropped and 3 other legit pieces, then we can talk.

 

I just don't know that I foresee teams doing such a deal.

[GreenSox]

Santiago misses more bats. Quintana has had much better results. As of today, Quintana > Santiago.

Better but not that much better.

Santiago's also getting better. We would be more likely to get full value for Quintana than Santiago. Both are good young pitchers...Peavy's the one we need to trade. We don't need more past their prime veterans or Ozzie-style low obp hitters.

[TaylorStSox]

Better but not that much better.

Santiago's also getting better. We would be more likely to get full value for Quintana than Santiago. Both are good young pitchers...Peavy's the one we need to trade. We don't need more past their prime veterans or Ozzie-style low obp hitters.

Quintana's getting better as well and has a better track record. You might be able to project Santiago to have a higher ceiling because he throws about 1 mph harder, but Quintana is the better pitcher.

[GreenSox]

Quintana's getting better as well and has a better track record. You might be able to project Santiago to have a higher ceiling because he throws about 1 mph harder, but Quintana is the better pitcher.

Santiago has more out-pitches. He's been a starter less than 1/2 a season. He needs to get his control fixed.

Selling him low would be asinine.

If anyone needs to be sold low it's Peavy. Save payroll, get younger.

And for sure we don't need more low obp hitters.

[TaylorStSox]

Santiago has more out-pitches. He's been a starter less than 1/2 a season. He needs to get his control fixed.

Selling him low would be asinine.

If anyone needs to be sold low it's Peavy. Save payroll, get younger.

And for sure we don't need more low obp hitters.

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with my post. My point is simple. As of right now, Quintana is, and has been, a better pitcher. Nobody has suggested "selling low" on either.

[Buehrle>Wood]

If anyone needs to be sold low it's Danks. Save payroll, get younger.

.

Fixed. Of course that stock is so low right now that you can't even sell him but I will keep mentioning it until we try.

[GreenSox]

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with my post. My point is simple. As of right now, Quintana is, and has been, a better pitcher. Nobody has suggested "selling low" on either.

And all I was saying is that we shouldn't give Santiago away for a low OBP corner infielder with no power. We've got that already.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Hector Santiago in his first 18 career starts: 5-4, 2.94 ERA, 10.2 SO/9, 1.22 WHIP

 

 

I'd have to imagine you are talking about a top 25 prospect combined with another top 50 type and then more around that package to even think about trading him.

 

 

He should improve more than anyone with better defense, even if he strikes a lot of guys out. That is because his biggest problem right now is pitch count. It will also help when we actually groom him as a starter.

 

Edited July 29, 2013 by Buehrle>Wood

[GreenSox]

I don't know if that's comparable. Latos had two good full seasons under his belt when he was traded and even if they were in SD that's more of a track record than Hector. While I don't necessarily agree with it, one major sportswriter (cannot remember who) had compared a potential Sale return looking like the Latos return.

 

I think Sale would demand a much better return than Latos and Hector would demand a lesser return.

Quintana is your comp.

But if we dangle Santiago, all the sabre-metric teams will be over him, trying to get him at a discount (and that the Sox undervalue him worries me). That's why Oakland was on Peavy I think...they dig deeper than ERA.

Edited July 29, 2013 by GreenSox

[GreenSox]

Hector Santiago in his first 18 career starts: 5-4, 2.94 ERA, 10.2 SO/9, 1.22 WHIP

 

 

I'd have to imagine you are talking about a top 25 prospect combined with another top 50 type and then more around that package to even think about trading him.

 

 

He should improve more than anyone with better defense, even if he strikes a lot of guys out. That is because his biggest problem right now is pitch count. It will also help when we actually groom him as a starter.

The high pitch count is a result of being a strike-out pitcher and he walks too many batters. But experience might fix that and then we have a stud. He's got a high ceiling I think. He doesn't through insanely hard, but a lot of K pitchers don't.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Quintana is your comp.

But if we dangle Santiago, all conversatione sabre-metric teams will be over him, trying to get him at a discount (and that the Sox undervalue him worries me). That's why Oakland was on Peavy I think...they dig deeper than ERA.

His ERA is great though. I'm not sure why the Sox under value him but it does seem that way. And not that it matters to this conversation but he seems like one of the nicest athletes you'll ever come across. Hope he stays around

[Balta1701]

The high pitch count is a result of being a strike-out pitcher and he walks too many batters. But experience might fix that and then we have a stud. He's got a high ceiling I think. He doesn't through insanely hard, but a lot of K pitchers don't.

His average fastball this year so far is 1 mph slower than Sale's (and that's with having been jerked between the bullpen and the rotation).

[Buehrle>Wood]

The high pitch count is a result of being a strike-out pitcher and he walks too many batters. But experience might fix that and then we have a stud. He's got a high ceiling I think. He doesn't through insanely hard, but a lot of K pitchers don't.

For sure but it is the defense too. It has been awful for him, capped by the four error game a couple starts ago. That will jump anyone's pitch count

[GreenSox]

For sure but it is the defense too. It has been awful for him, capped by the four error game a couple starts ago. That will jump anyone's pitch count

For sure. I think it's safe to say all of our pitchers have been hurt by our defense, and it's well beyond unearned runs and errors.

 

48 hours from now, I'd take a B prospect for Rios, Alexei and De Aza. We can clear a lot of salary and get replacement level players who at least won't clown around like these 3. Could also get a defensive catcher too.

Edited July 29, 2013 by GreenSox

[Balta1701]

For sure. I think it's safe to say all of our pitchers have been hurt by our defense, and it's well beyond unearned runs.

 

48 hours from now, I'd take a B prospect for Rios, Alexei and De Aza. We can clear a lot of salary and get replacement level players who at least won't clown around like these 3. Could also get a defensive catcher too.

Moving De Aza really doesn't clear a lot of salary. He's worth more than a B prospect.

[GreenSox]

Moving De Aza really doesn't clear a lot of salary. He's worth more than a B prospect.

Is he?

He's a bad CF. We have no position for him, unless we give up on Viciedo.

I hope we can move one of those guys at least.

Edited July 29, 2013 by GreenSox

[Jerksticks]

Ackley?

 

I was thinking Q and Santiago would be worth major hauls. Am I crazy?

[Jerksticks]

That was off the top of my head and I said ++. The idea is that I can see the Sox entertaining moving Santiago/Quintana for MLB positional talent +.

 

Gotcha. Q is worth really good players.