Texsox Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 The question I keep wishing someone would answer is why didn't the clean players rise up? Why didn't the guys who were getting screwed by not taking PEDs not go public in a big way? Absent of any solid information that I can find my answer is that they were intimidated by MLB Inc. That they didn't want to bite the hands that fed them. Now, MLB Inc. decides to clean up the players. I can see a backlash against MLB and empathy for players in all this. It must be infuriating when your employer basically rewards you for rules breaking then suddenly adopts a holier than thou attitude. It sickens me that the game was basically taken over by cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 7, 2013 -> 11:17 AM) The question I keep wishing someone would answer is why didn't the clean players rise up? Why didn't the guys who were getting screwed by not taking PEDs not go public in a big way? Absent of any solid information that I can find my answer is that they were intimidated by MLB Inc. That they didn't want to bite the hands that fed them. Now, MLB Inc. decides to clean up the players. I can see a backlash against MLB and empathy for players in all this. It must be infuriating when your employer basically rewards you for rules breaking then suddenly adopts a holier than thou attitude. It sickens me that the game was basically taken over by cheating. The MLBPA kept them on a leash. Don't you remember when Frank Thomas tried to organize a union defiance so that the clubhouse had to be tested for PEDs, only to have the MLBPA quash it? The MLB and MLBPA were both a part of protecting the users. There would be no uprising Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 7, 2013 Author Share Posted December 7, 2013 QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 7, 2013 -> 12:17 PM) The question I keep wishing someone would answer is why didn't the clean players rise up? Why didn't the guys who were getting screwed by not taking PEDs not go public in a big way? Absent of any solid information that I can find my answer is that they were intimidated by MLB Inc. That they didn't want to bite the hands that fed them. Now, MLB Inc. decides to clean up the players. I can see a backlash against MLB and empathy for players in all this. It must be infuriating when your employer basically rewards you for rules breaking then suddenly adopts a holier than thou attitude. It sickens me that the game was basically taken over by cheating. That "Locker room culture/everyone does it" aspect plays in there also. When McGwire's bottle of Andro was found in his locker by a reporter, the big complaint from baseball people was violating the privacy in the locker room, not the guy having a PED sitting in his locker. It's one reason why I hold Frank and the 03 White Sox in such high regard...for actually being willing to do the right thing despite that no-snitching culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Andro hardly did anything and was legal at the time. I would guess that McGwire was using actual steroids and had the Andro around as a distraction as if to say "I got huge like this legally" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 7, 2013 -> 11:33 AM) Andro hardly did anything and was legal at the time. I would guess that McGwire was using actual steroids and had the Andro around as a distraction as if to say "I got huge like this legally" I think around that time McGwire was the Bill Romanowski of baseball in terms of juicing. If it could be taken, it was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 7, 2013 -> 11:33 AM) Andro hardly did anything and was legal at the time. I would guess that McGwire was using actual steroids and had the Andro around as a distraction as if to say "I got huge like this legally" I'm pretty sure I made that same argument years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 I'm sure that basically every clean player in that era WANTED to bring it to light. Not sure of the exact pressures on them to not do so, but it had to be an overwhelming and just disheartening feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Frank Thomas was probably the only player that had enough sway yet cared little enough about the respect of his peers to bring it up. He knew that his legacy was being damaged and that was all that mattered to him. Griffey was another player that could have spoken up, but unlike Frank I think he was very concerned with the way he was viewed by peers, having grown up in an MLB clubhouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 QUOTE (Middle Buffalo @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 05:50 PM) I doubt it took 10-12 years in an athletic environment for athletes, trainers, and medical professionals to figure out PEDs were rampant in the clubhouses. If someone at my job, your job, any job is up to something, word spreads pretty quickly. That could be affairs, drug use, alcoholism - you name it. People like to talk. There were 10-12 years of teams and reporters ignoring the information available. The fans were a little slower to catch on because the fans were fed improved technology, smaller ballparks, tighter winding of the baseballs, etc. Propaganda in other words. That said, count me among those who think ARod is a victim of a witch hunt, and a part of me wants to see him get off just to stick it to the Yankees and MLB. And I'm not an ARod fan. And I'm one of the old school fans who loves baseball a little less because PEDs ruined the stats that I grew up memorizing. When I was working in the league in the late 80's and early 90's there wasn't really much proof. We all suspected but never saw anyone do anything. It was hidden pretty well. The worst case I ever saw was in football. This was when I first recognized the "steriod body"When I was with the Packers in 88 or 89 they drafted Tony Manadarich. The first day he was in camp he just looked different and you could tell something wasn't right. He got busted twice in training camp, at the time drug results were not made public. He was just too blatant with it. He went from 320 lbs. to about 285 early in the season. This case is what really made sports aware of the problem and really peaked my interest in the phenomenon of PEDs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2013 -> 11:25 AM) That "Locker room culture/everyone does it" aspect plays in there also. When McGwire's bottle of Andro was found in his locker by a reporter, the big complaint from baseball people was violating the privacy in the locker room, not the guy having a PED sitting in his locker. It's one reason why I hold Frank and the 03 White Sox in such high regard...for actually being willing to do the right thing despite that no-snitching culture. Totaly agree. Most of the Sox were clean and were trying to skew the tests to create enough positives to make testing mandatory. Although some (an RF who remsins nameless) did it because he was using PEDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 I also want A-Rods money to remain on the Yankees books. They've benefited from him, why should they be exempt from punishment of his downfall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 7, 2013 -> 11:33 AM) Andro hardly did anything and was legal at the time. I would guess that McGwire was using actual steroids and had the Andro around as a distraction as if to say "I got huge like this legally" Part of the murkyness early for him was that weight lifting in baseball really didn't get going until the mid-80's. Until then weight lifting was considered wrong for players because it caused them to lose flexibility. This is also when steriods started to appear as well. So some of the difficulty was what is the benefits of weights and what was PEDS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 7, 2013 -> 01:49 PM) I also want A-Rods money to remain on the Yankees books. They've benefited from him, why should they be exempt from punishment of his downfall? Because it's not their job to police the sport. Players and teams will always cheat to get an advantage. Not every team or player but many will especially when this much money is involved. That's why the commisioner's office and the union need to work together for the "good of the game." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 7, 2013 -> 01:51 PM) Part of the murkyness early for him was that weight lifting in baseball really didn't get going until the mid-80's. Until then weight lifting was considered wrong for players because it caused them to lose flexibility. This is also when steriods started to appear as well. So some of the difficulty was what is the benefits of weights and what was PEDS. It is interesting how weight lifting in all sports came into the spotlight in the 1980s. When I was running in the late 70s and early 80s my coaches would have shot any middle and distance runners they caught lifting weights. Then by the late 1980s milers had some muscle mass in the upper body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 7, 2013 -> 09:20 PM) It is interesting how weight lifting in all sports came into the spotlight in the 1980s. When I was running in the late 70s and early 80s my coaches would have shot any middle and distance runners they caught lifting weights. Then by the late 1980s milers had some muscle mass in the upper body. Same here. That's when I started running competitively as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 7, 2013 -> 11:17 AM) The question I keep wishing someone would answer is why didn't the clean players rise up? Why didn't the guys who were getting screwed by not taking PEDs not go public in a big way? Absent of any solid information that I can find my answer is that they were intimidated by MLB Inc. That they didn't want to bite the hands that fed them. Now, MLB Inc. decides to clean up the players. I can see a backlash against MLB and empathy for players in all this. It must be infuriating when your employer basically rewards you for rules breaking then suddenly adopts a holier than thou attitude. It sickens me that the game was basically taken over by cheating. How many workplace insurrections have you been through? Most people prefer the silent exit, versus making a scene. Heck in sports it is worse, where the first thing that is said is that it "needs to stay in the lockerroom". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 A brief history of PED reporting by reporters. It is interesting. http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/102616...ing-steroid-era Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2014 -> 01:22 PM) A brief history of PED reporting by reporters. It is interesting. http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/102616...ing-steroid-era I purusued it earlier at work, so please put me straight if I missed something, I just feel it just ignores so many issues. Yes, this covers, basically, newspaper/investigative reporting, but I just feel it completely whiffs that ESPN was a major business partner with MLB over this time and that's kind of ignored. They like to say they're a news outlet, so they were just completely not a part of this type of story? I always thought Gammons got off easy. He was considered the dean of baseball reporters over this stretch. Also, two guys who now work for ESPN, come out as superstars in this, I'll retract that if it's made clear that both are now employed by ESPN. I get the "hindsight is 20/20" when I rag on baseball reporters, except it wasn't hindsight. It was extremely obvious what was going on and any trainer with his certificate for 5 minutes could have told you what was going on was basically impossible with out PEDs and it really was discussed a lot during the time. I don't know, I'm probably biased as I hate ESPN and not the biggest fan of Grantland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Per the Twiitterverse, A-Rod officially suspended 162 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 A rod suspended for all of 2014. Espn reporting this as breaking news so I assume this means a reduced suspension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jan 11, 2014 -> 11:54 AM) A rod suspended for all of 2014. Espn reporting this as breaking news so I assume this means a reduced suspension Puts the Yankees $27 million beneath the Luxury tax line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 And presumably now the real legal fight starts when the Yankees see if they can get out of the contract completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 Oh, and I for one...won't miss him one bit. See ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Good riddance. I'm glad by and large the arbitrator held this up. Bad news is the Yankees can now really front load a deal with Tanaka and throw a lot of coin without being too worried about luxury tax payments this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 ARoid's statement denies PED use, says he will take his case to federal court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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