Andy the Clown Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 And guys with longer arms and legs are going to be able to catch more balls at first base. Without data, I'm not buying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 QUOTE (scs787 @ Aug 2, 2013 -> 02:20 PM) Chances are Dunn is the DH with Tank at 1B. Dunn has been really good for 2 months now, when are you haters gonna cut him some slack. We want obp on this team right? his obp the last 2 months has been in the .390s. He's one of the last guys I could complain about in this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Aug 2, 2013 -> 10:25 PM) Again, who would want him? What would you expect him to bring in a trade? He's an average-at-best hitter with no defensive position... We're stuck with him for the foreseeable future, so let's hope he can show some improvement. Sounds like the perfect White Sox. I think he is a victim of being over hyped when he was in the minors. Another guy who can't catch a baseball. Should be be so eager to give up on him since this year's theme is underachievement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Aug 3, 2013 -> 06:20 PM) Without data, I'm not buying it. So where is your data? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Viciedo needs to learn consistency at the plate and pitch selection. It appears he swings has hard as he can and hopes for the best, which isn't much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 So where is your data? You're the one making the argument that height matters. The burden of proof is on you. I don't have to prove the null hypothesis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Aug 4, 2013 -> 10:30 AM) You're the one making the argument that height matters. The burden of proof is on you. I don't have to prove the null hypothesis. You're the one arguing that it doesn't despite the change to the taller 1B, in an era where statistical analysis has become prevalent in making those types of decisions. It doesn't really make sense that this one spot `where teams didn't use analysis. The reality is you are arguing a logical fallacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Logic tells us that taller people will have more reach. How large an impact that reach makes is unknown to me, but you often see plays where you might think, "that throw would be an error if the first baseman were shorter." I don't know how many throws that comes into play, but it certainly matters sometimes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 4, 2013 -> 12:01 PM) You're the one arguing that it doesn't despite the change to the taller 1B, in an era where statistical analysis has become prevalent in making those types of decisions. It doesn't really make sense that this one spot `where teams didn't use analysis. The reality is you are arguing a logical fallacy. You are wrong in this regard, the burden of proof is on you that height makes that much of a difference......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Aug 4, 2013 -> 12:10 PM) You are wrong in this regard, the burden of proof is on you that height makes that much of a difference......... If you are going to argue something that flies both in the face of logic and of modern trends in baseball, I would say the burden of proof belongs with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 You are wrong in this regard, the burden of proof is on you that height makes that much of a difference......... Logically, he is the one that needs to provide evidence, but he can't wrap his head around that. That's why he's such a great mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 I say that in order to have a real argument, you actually have to be on topic instead of just discussing semantics and the idea of who should argue first and about what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 4, 2013 -> 12:13 PM) If you are going to argue something that flies both in the face of logic and of modern trends in baseball, I would say the burden of proof belongs with you. Logically thinking about it, it makes sense the majority of 1B are huge guys that really don't have the quickness to play other positions and 1B is the best spot to hide them. Also if anything it seems more throws to 1B are in the dirt rather than being too high, so yes a tall person has a little extra reach but hardly enough to make a noticeable difference.... I could be wrong... but the argument is Viciedo isn't tall enough to play 1B in this modern era of baseball, which to me seems like the burden of proof is on you. His argument being there were plenty of 1B in the 5'11 height range in the past so what is the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Logically, the argument shouldn't be about height, but rather standing reach. That doesn't really help Viciedo's case as he appears to have alligator arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I think we can make a safe assumption that taller people will have longer arms and greater reach. I don't know whether the difference would be significant, but I think suggesting otherwise is silly. Take basketball for instance - a guy that's 6'8 is going to have an easier time dunking than a guy who is 6'4. It doesn't mean a guy who is 6'4 can't dunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 09:09 AM) Take basketball for instance - a guy that's 6'8 is going to have an easier time dunking than a guy who is 6'4. It doesn't mean a guy who is 6'4 can't dunk. But can he dunk off both legs and does he declare himself 110%? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 09:09 AM) I think we can make a safe assumption that taller people will have longer arms and greater reach. I don't know whether the difference would be significant, but I think suggesting otherwise is silly. Take basketball for instance - a guy that's 6'8 is going to have an easier time dunking than a guy who is 6'4. It doesn't mean a guy who is 6'4 can't dunk. There are big differences in basketball though. Wingspan is just as important as height. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 06:37 AM) Logically, the argument shouldn't be about height, but rather standing reach. That doesn't really help Viciedo's case as he appears to have alligator arms. Correct and logically the taller you are the longer your reach is. And I don't see how anyone can state that having a longer reach doesn't make a noticeable difference. . How often do we see a 1st baseman jump losing cotact with the bag and the runner safe ? . How often do we see a 1st baseman stretch towards the incoming throw barely catching it before the runner touches the base ? How bout throws off to the side ? How about catching the low throw before it hits the dirt because of that reach ? How many extra bases will runners advance because the shorter guy cant reach the ball and it becomes a wild throw ? This should be common sense to people .If having a taller guy gets you 10 extra outs a year I'll take the taller guy. Not getting outs when you could leads to big innings and adds runs to the other team . Big innings lead to loses . Any loss can be the difference in making the playoffs and having a chance to win it all. Any advantage is a good advantage. Edited August 6, 2013 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Dayan Vicideo sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 10:21 AM) Dayan Vicideo sucks. An illustrative, detailed, well thought out post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 09:27 AM) An illustrative, detailed, well thought out post. Yet entirely accurate. He can't hit. He can't field. He strikes out too much. He's injured. He flat out sucks and he's getting worse. Edited August 6, 2013 by Steve9347 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 07:27 AM) An illustrative, detailed, well thought out post. But the one that got your attention instead of the detailed well thought one just before it . Face it the shorter and snottier the post the more attention it gets. #soundbytes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 07:20 AM) Correct and logically the taller you are the longer your reach is. And I don't see how anyone can state that having a longer reach doesn't make a noticeable difference. . How often do we see a 1st baseman jump losing cotact with the bag and the runner safe ? . How often do we see a 1st baseman stretch towards the incoming throw barely catching it before the runner touches the base ? How bout throws off to the side ? How about catching the low throw before it hits the dirt because of that reach ? How many extra bases will runners advance because the shorter guy cant reach the ball and it becomes a wild throw ? This should be common sense to people .If having a taller guy gets you 10 extra outs a year I'll take the taller guy. Not getting outs when you could leads to big innings and adds runs to the other team . Big innings lead to loses . Any loss can be the difference in making the playoffs and having a chance to win it all. Any advantage is a good advantage. Well, I dunno...all I care about is who is able to make the most plays. Many times that may be the taller player, but maybe the more athletic guy is better at digging balls out or moves laterally better. I honestly don't know, but I don't think the player's range (wingspan) should be the sole consideration. Edited August 6, 2013 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I don't see how there can be any doubt that, all other things equal, a taller (and longer reach) 1B is better than shorter with less reach. More lateral space to get throws while still on the bag. But all else is never equal. And if you are talking about someone whose reach might be a few inches different, I think the overall impact of that is very small. Probably within measurement error type small. So I woudn't be concerned about, unless you are talking about a midget versus a giant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 02:21 PM) Dayan Vicideo sucks. Finally, a post that's worth reading in this cesspool of a thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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