Marty34 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 I think getting better production from the outfield is a key in how quickly this turnaround can happen. Say they got rid of even just $20M more in salary. That would bring their payroll down to ~$45M. A guy like Andre Eithier would be an interesting possibility at that point. I know he's over 30 (which I don't like), but he gets on base and is a left-handed hitter. If the Dodgers were willing to eat $10M-$15M (big if) next year's payroll would be under $60M and the OF would be De Aza in left, Garcia in center, and Eithier in right. Viciedo to first or available in a deal. Anyway, just thinking off the top of my head . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Our OF is the strength of our team, other than SS. I'm happy to increase production there, but I don't like Ethier. He's basically a LH Rios who makes more money and has fewer tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Ethier is a platoon player now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 4, 2013 -> 05:29 PM) Our OF is the strength of our team, other than SS. I'm happy to increase production there, but I don't like Ethier. He's basically a LH Rios who makes more money and has fewer tools. Probably the first time all year strength and Alexei were used in the same sentence. When Travis Wood has the same amount of home runs as your double play combination, you are in definite need of an increase in production at those positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 I think getting better production from the outfield is a key in how quickly this turnaround can happen. Say they got rid of even just $20M more in salary. That would bring their payroll down to ~$45M. A guy like Andre Eithier would be an interesting possibility at that point. I know he's over 30 (which I don't like), but he gets on base and is a left-handed hitter. If the Dodgers were willing to eat $10M-$15M (big if) next year's payroll would be under $60M and the OF would be De Aza in left, Garcia in center, and Eithier in right. Viciedo to first or available in a deal. Anyway, just thinking off the top of my head . . . Right size, wrong shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 4, 2013 -> 12:27 PM) I think getting better production from the outfield is a key in how quickly this turnaround can happen. Say they got rid of even just $20M more in salary. That would bring their payroll down to ~$45M. A guy like Andre Eithier would be an interesting possibility at that point. I know he's over 30 (which I don't like), but he gets on base and is a left-handed hitter. If the Dodgers were willing to eat $10M-$15M (big if) next year's payroll would be under $60M and the OF would be De Aza in left, Garcia in center, and Eithier in right. Viciedo to first or available in a deal. Anyway, just thinking off the top of my head . . . What? Have you seen our infield this year? We have 14 HRs between Gillapsie, Ramirez, Beckham, & Keppinger. We've also had a corpse at 1B when Dunn isn't playing. They're without question the problem. If we can get a superstar OF in free agency, then sure go for the upgrade. Otherwise, we can field a solid to good OF between De Aza, Viciedo, Garcia, & Rios next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 4, 2013 -> 12:39 PM) Probably the first time all year strength and Alexei were used in the same sentence. When Travis Wood has the same amount of home runs as your double play combination, you are in definite need of an increase in production at those positions. I'm talking about overall value. Not only does Alexei lead us in WAR, he ranks 13th in WAR among all MLB SS. No other position on our team ranks in the top half. 18th in wRC+, which is pretty good on our team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 4, 2013 -> 12:43 PM) I'm talking about overall value. Not only does Alexei lead us in WAR, he ranks 13th in WAR among all MLB SS. No other position on our team ranks in the top half. 18th in wRC+, which is pretty good on our team. You keep citing Alexei's WAR but don't acknowledge it's entirely based on his defense, since he's been a negative value hitter. Defensive metrics are still way too sketchy IMO and his overall value is likely inflated as a result. That's not to say he's a bad player, but let's not use WAR as gospel, especially when we're talking about a defensive-oriented player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 4, 2013 -> 12:51 PM) You keep citing Alexei's WAR but don't acknowledge it's entirely based on his defense, since he's been a negative value hitter. Defensive metrics are still way too sketchy IMO and his overall value is likely inflated as a result. That's not to say he's a bad player, but let's not use WAR as gospel, especially when we're talking about a defensive-oriented player. I cited his offense too which is not a negative value, it is 18th among shortstops that have 250 PA or more. Also, UZR is not sketchy, particularly with Alexei who has been playing for several years and thus has a suitable sample from which to judge. His defense is extremely valuable and your eyes as well as the statistics bear that out. While today's blunder probably pisses you off, his speed on the bases along with his basestealing adds to his value as well. Our infield is the problem and it is not solved by removing the best infielder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted August 4, 2013 Author Share Posted August 4, 2013 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 4, 2013 -> 12:42 PM) What? Have you seen our infield this year? We have 14 HRs between Gillapsie, Ramirez, Beckham, & Keppinger. We've also had a corpse at 1B when Dunn isn't playing. They're without question the problem. If we can get a superstar OF in free agency, then sure go for the upgrade. Otherwise, we can field a solid to good OF between De Aza, Viciedo, Garcia, & Rios next year. The middle infield next year will more than likely be Beckham/Semien with Gillaspie as part of a platoon at third. Garcia will take one outfield spot, so that leaves an outfield spot and 1B as the other places to upgrade offensively. I'd rather take on a contract than sign a free-agent as I think the few guys who are on the market this year will get grossly overpaid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 4, 2013 -> 12:59 PM) The middle infield next year will more than likely be Beckham/Semien with Gillaspie as part of a platoon at third. Garcia will take one outfield spot, so that leaves an outfield spot and 1B as the other places to upgrade offensively. I'd rather take on a contract than sign a free-agent as I think the few guys who are on the market this year will get grossly overpaid. Dumb organizations trade for Andre Ethier. Andre Ethier will not be on the White Sox next playoff team. Besides, LF with power are easy to find. You have always told us so, and the Sox need to maximize Viciedo so they must mov ehim to RF. I' m sure you have several better candidates than Ethier to take over LF. Edited August 4, 2013 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 4, 2013 -> 12:59 PM) The middle infield next year will more than likely be Beckham/Semien with Gillaspie as part of a platoon at third. Garcia will take one outfield spot, so that leaves an outfield spot and 1B as the other places to upgrade offensively. I'd rather take on a contract than sign a free-agent as I think the few guys who are on the market this year will get grossly overpaid. Since you're assuming Rios is gone, it makes more sense to leave Tank in LF and find a 1B that can bop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 We need better production from every position. In order to get there, we need to start developing prospects. I think Hahn realizes that. The days of spending big in free agency will be on hold at least until 2015. I expect them to be just as bad in 2014 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Even if we were in a mad dash to compete in 2014, it doesn't seem to me that the 2014 class of FA suits our needs well. If I was trying to make big investments to improve this team quickly, I'd be buying a 1B, 3B, and C. There's pretty much 1 1B, 1 C, and no 3B in this class of FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 4, 2013 -> 06:59 PM) The middle infield next year will more than likely be Beckham/Semien with Gillaspie as part of a platoon at third. Garcia will take one outfield spot, so that leaves an outfield spot and 1B as the other places to upgrade offensively. I'd rather take on a contract than sign a free-agent as I think the few guys who are on the market this year will get grossly overpaid. I can't argue against what you are saying. But, the weakness in the OF is Viciedo and I am not sure this year is just a slump or not. Rios is most likely gone so do they keep De Aza and move him to a corner spot? Or keep Viciedo in the OF hoping he improves wiht the bat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 4, 2013 -> 01:30 PM) I can't argue against what you are saying. But, the weakness in the OF is Viciedo and I am not sure this year is just a slump or not. Rios is most likely gone so do they keep De Aza and move him to a corner spot? Or keep Viciedo in the OF hoping he improves wiht the bat? If Rios is gone, they will almost certainly leave Tank in the OF. If he does not make a clear step forward next year, he'll be playing somewhere else in 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 4, 2013 -> 12:43 PM) I'm talking about overall value. Not only does Alexei lead us in WAR, he ranks 13th in WAR among all MLB SS. No other position on our team ranks in the top half. 18th in wRC+, which is pretty good on our team. From 2012 until now, Rios is 5th in WAR among all RF's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Aug 4, 2013 -> 01:28 PM) We need better production from every position. In order to get there, we need to start developing prospects. I think Hahn realizes that. The days of spending big in free agency will be on hold at least until 2015. I expect them to be just as bad in 2014 as well. Great post. I would not surprised to see De Aza in LF, Garcia in CF, and Viciedo in RF next season. Beckham at 2B, Phegley at C. Gillaspie and Keppinger will both be here. Dunn will most likely be here. I think you give Andy Wilkins 1B next year. You have nothing to lose by doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 I don't mind your logic, but Ethier is really bad at this point. We'd be better of splurging in free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 The only worse idea I can come up with than Ethier is taking on Josh Hamilton right now. Fixing the outfield requires someone out of the 5-6 guys we have who can play the OF developing into hitters. We're in a position where we might well be forced to trade or move an OF to first base in the next 6 months because we have too many OF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 4, 2013 -> 02:30 PM) I can't argue against what you are saying. But, the weakness in the OF is Viciedo and I am not sure this year is just a slump or not. Rios is most likely gone so do they keep De Aza and move him to a corner spot? Or keep Viciedo in the OF hoping he improves wiht the bat? IMO, if nothing goes wrong, Trayce Thompson pencils in for a late 2014 or 2015 arrival and he's a legit CF who covers some serious ground out there. I have little issue using De Aza as a bridge to Trayce...if he outperforms, or gets better on defense, great. If not, we actually have talent coming up who can take over that position on defense. He'll need some serious work on offense to learn how to hit big league pitching, but we'll deal with that when the time comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted August 4, 2013 Author Share Posted August 4, 2013 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 4, 2013 -> 05:22 PM) I don't mind your logic, but Ethier is really bad at this point. We'd be better of splurging in free agency. Doesn't have to be Either. Taking on a bad contract may very well be cheaper and provide just as much production as signing a free agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt4life Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 4, 2013 -> 02:08 PM) Great post. I would not surprised to see De Aza in LF, Garcia in CF, and Viciedo in RF next season. Beckham at 2B, Phegley at C. Gillaspie and Keppinger will both be here. Dunn will most likely be here. I think you give Andy Wilkins 1B next year. You have nothing to lose by doing so. This Not saying I like it, but, unless there's a major overhaul this offseason (which I don't see happening) then we're in for a long 2014 as well. Give some of the kids a chance to show their stuff and look towards spending some $ for the 2015 season to fill in the gaps and replace the prospects who don't pan out. We'll also see Semien a lot next year too most likely. Probably in a role backing up Alexei and Gordon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 4, 2013 -> 05:52 PM) The only worse idea I can come up with than Ethier is taking on Josh Hamilton right now. Fixing the outfield requires someone out of the 5-6 guys we have who can play the OF developing into hitters. We're in a position where we might well be forced to trade or move an OF to first base in the next 6 months because we have too many OF. Outside of Garcia and Jacobs there are no potential hitters among our OF prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 4, 2013 -> 07:09 PM) Outside of Garcia and Jacobs there are no potential hitters among our OF prospects. Last time I checked, Brandon Jacob even has issues with the bat right now. Can he change that? Hopefully... but the only guy we have in the minors who is worthy of a promotion is Garcia. Assuming Rios is dealt this August or during the Hot Stove season during the off season, it will be very interesting to see a spring training OF competition between the likes of Thompson, Jacobs, Walker, Mitchell etc... All of these guys need improvements with the bat. If Viciedo is moved to 1B.... things may get interesting in the OF next year. I am predicting an OF of Thompson-LF, De Aza-CF, Garcia-RF. Rios will be dealt and Viciedo will split time at 1B/DH with Dunn. The best case scenario is Hahn aqcuirering a better option in LF over Thompson in a Rios trade. I still think the OF prospects that I mentioned have alot of work to do before they reach the bigs. Regardless, 2014 will also be a long season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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