8/14/2013 White Sox vs. Tigers

[Eminor3rd]

True, but I also would prefer we sign Jose Abreu and Grandy and AJ and voila, we gots a very good team again (on paper). And that's not even talking about the MLB Draft.

 

If that would actually work, then we would all want that to happen. As it is, if everything broke our way, that would give us a .500 team that we would have to watch get gradually worse for 4 years until the contracts all expire and we can try to make serious moves again. Or, we can do it the right way now, and get a chance to compete some time this decade.

[Eminor3rd]

No problem. I can handle it. My point is a lot of people repeat themselves over and over, not just me. I may stress my disdain for Dunn and Rios and love for Paulie; others repeat themselves on other topics as well.

 

This is true -- unfortunately there's just not a lot to talk about when the teams is embarrassing every night and we're past trade season.

[greg775]

Yes, but to maximize your value for a prospect you have to try and get closest to the #1 pick as possible. There is quite a large fall off after the top half of the first round when you talk about over value of a prospect. If you make those moves that you mention (which has no bearing on our record this year) and also grab the best pick as possible you are maximizing your investment in players and prospects.

You dont seem to understand that having a first round pick is not the same as having a top pick. IN fact they are quite a bit different.

I understand that. But a devil's advocate would say, hey, TROUT was available way down the line. Didn't have to take him No. 1, 2 or 3. He was there, folks.

 

I recommend this article when anyone wants to discuss the value of prospects acquired through the draft.

 

If you are a fan of your team you want them to maximize this if possible, especially when rebuilding

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4368

I'll read it tonight.

 

If that would actually work, then we would all want that to happen. As it is, if everything broke our way, that would give us a .500 team that we would have to watch get gradually worse for 4 years until the contracts all expire and we can try to make serious moves again. Or, we can do it the right way now, and get a chance to compete some time this decade.

Why would that give us a .500 team only? With the Sox pitching? I thought pretty much all we had to do was fix the everyday lineup and the Sox are golden cause of the current pitching. My simple suggestion there could work wonders and the draft is just a bonanza. And we could substitute some other catcher for AJP on the free agent market if u want to go younger there.

[greg775]

Has A. Garcia drawn any walks with the Sox yet? Not gonna help his on base percentage in the future. Like Kenny said, we got to improve OBP. I think we need to work with these guys all winter on approach. Would I prefer a new hitting coach? Yes. Or at least add the man who knew how to draw a walk and still HIT, FRANK THOMAS.

[Marty34]

I'll be very unhappy if he signs somewhere for like $80 million and that place is not the Chicago White Sox.

 

I'll be less annoyed if someone offers him 9 figures.

 

$80M is too much. $50M-$60M range would be on the edge of acceptable. Concerns of a slider-speed bat. I have visions of a guy like Viciedo swinging through 91-92 mph fastballs.

[RockRaines]

I understand that. But a devil's advocate would say, hey, TROUT was available way down the line. Didn't have to take him No. 1, 2 or 3. He was there, folks.

 

 

IMy simple suggestion there could work wonders and the draft is just a bonanza.

The draft is not just a bonanza. After the first half of the first round your odds at getting an impact player drop significantly. The higher you go the better your odds.

 

 

Heres another for you greg

 

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2013/6/25...are-draft-picks

 

easier to read.

Edited August 14, 2013 by RockRaines

[Balta1701]

$80M is too much. $50M-$60M range would be on the edge of acceptable. Concerns of a slider-speed bat. I have visions of a guy like Viciedo swinging through 91-92 mph fastballs.

LOL, that's timing and pitch recognition, not bat speed.

 

I'm not sure I can think of anyone on the White Sox with better "bat speed" than Viciedo.

[Eminor3rd]

Why would that give us a .500 team only? With the Sox pitching? I thought pretty much all we had to do was fix the everyday lineup and the Sox are golden cause of the current pitching. My simple suggestion there could work wonders and the draft is just a bonanza. And we could substitute some other catcher for AJP on the free agent market if u want to go younger there.

 

Curtis Granderson would be a substantial defensive downgrade in the OF of a team that has been among the worst defensive teams in the Majors. At the plate, at this stage of his career, he is REMARKABLY similar to your favorite player Adam Dunn. Last year's numbers: .232/.319/.492 with a 28.5% strikeout rate, good for an identical 116 wRC+. Like Dunn, he would actually be best suited as a DH rather than be a -18.1 UZR CF for us, but we already have an Adam Dunn at DH. Unlike Dunn, he has been increasingly injury prone -- having both knee and wrist problems.

 

Brian McCann (who I'm using to replace AJP) is also injury prone, having spent substantial time on the DL in both of the last two years, and will need to spend increasing time at 1B/DH in order to stay in the lineup consistently now that he's approaching 30, where we already have Adam Dunn and hopefully Jose Abreu. Any at bats he gets outside of his part-time catching duty will be removing at bats from Abreu/Dunn, thus minimizing his overall value added by negating the value of the other best bats in the lineup.

 

And this is assuming that Jose Abreu is an immediate, impact contributor. If anything other than 90% of the best case scenario happens, either because he isn't as good as we hope or because he needs time to adjust, his contribution is mitigated further. Consider the playing time crunch, I'd guess the combined impact of McCann/Abreu, assuming both are healthy, would work out to be about the same as if we had a full, healthy productive season from Konerko this year.

 

So what do you have? 2013 White Sox except with worse defense and if Paul Konerko was his old self. Is that the difference between 100 losses and contention? This is also assuming Garcia is able to to recreate Rios' production and that Beckham's improvement is real, thus making up for the unlikely hot streak we enjoyed from Gillaspie while Beck was on the DL. Does that still seem like a prudent use of resources, considering that you'd be stuck with all those players for years as they get worse, Abreu notwithstanding?

[Marty34]

LOL, that's timing and pitch recognition, not bat speed.

 

I'm not sure I can think of anyone on the White Sox with better "bat speed" than Viciedo.

 

ROFL. One guy will swing through the pitch because he starts to late, the other guy because he starts too early. Does it matter?

[Eminor3rd]

Has A. Garcia drawn any walks with the Sox yet? Not gonna help his on base percentage in the future. Like Kenny said, we got to improve OBP. I think we need to work with these guys all winter on approach. Would I prefer a new hitting coach? Yes. Or at least add the man who knew how to draw a walk and still HIT, FRANK THOMAS.

 

He has drawn a couple, though his K and BB percentages have been about the same as always. This is an area where I agree with you wholeheartedly, though I don't have any idea if Frank Thomas would be a good coach just because he was na excellent hitter.

[Eminor3rd]

ROFL. One guy will swing through the pitch because he starts to late, the other guy because he starts too early. Does it matter?

 

In terms of results, no. But one of them has a much better chance to improve if coached correctly.

[Balta1701]

ROFL. One guy will swing through the pitch because he starts to late, the other guy because he starts too early. Does it matter?

As long as we're clear that every cuban has the wrong bat speed.

[Marty34]

As long as we're clear that every cuban has the wrong bat speed.

 

I don't think bat speed has much to do with ethnicity.

[Marty34]

In terms of results, no. But one of them has a much better chance to improve if coached correctly.

 

I'm not sure pitch recognition can be taught.

[witesoxfan]

I'm not sure pitch recognition can be taught.

 

So you are telling me that Frank Thomas exited his mother's womb and that very second knew what an 86 MPH slider looked like?

 

Obviously, I kid. But beyond my over exaggeration, of course you can teach it - to some extent. It's the same as bat speed as is the same with running the bases - you can teach certain things and train certain ways to improve, but at some point in time, natural talent is necessary and some guys simple don't possess it.

Edited August 15, 2013 by witesoxfan

[Marty34]

So you are telling me that Frank Thomas exited his mother's womb and that very second knew what an 86 MPH slider looked like?

 

Obviously, I kid. But beyond my over exaggeration, of course you can teach it - to some extent. It's the same as bat speed as is the same with running the bases - you can teach certain things and train certain ways to improve, but at some point in time, natural talent is necessary and some guys simple don't possess it.

 

I think pitch recognition is a skill that can be refined with repetition, but there is only so much improvement that can be made.