Hillary

[pettie4sox]

Imagine if politicians did their job. I bet money that it would be raining money and problems albeit not every would be solved at a greater rate.

[Reddy]

And now you are on the opposite side of the coin. You were upset about it, and now are hand-waving away drone strikes on American citizens.

what?? i dont know where you get this s*** from, honestly.

 

upset about what? and how am i hand waving away drone strikes? the GOP ability to misdirect and change the subject is staggering. haha

[southsider2k5]

what?? i dont know where you get this s*** from, honestly.

 

upset about what? and how am i hand waving away drone strikes? the GOP ability to misdirect and change the subject is staggering. haha

 

So you changed the topic from drone strikes to Bush and the patriot act, and I am the misdirector and subject changer for calling you out on your flip flop?

[EvilMonkey]

So you changed the topic from drone strikes to Bush and the patriot act, and I am the misdirector and subject changer for calling you out on your flip flop?

yes

[Reddy]

So you changed the topic from drone strikes to Bush and the patriot act, and I am the misdirector and subject changer for calling you out on your flip flop?

 

ok let me see if i can clarify this...

 

Nuke was b****ing about drone strikes, and I brought up the patriot act because most republicans who NOW b**** about drone strikes SUPPORTED the patriot act, of which these drone strikes are an expansion! that's not misdirecting or changing the subject in the least bit.

[Reddy]

So you changed the topic from drone strikes to Bush and the patriot act, and I am the misdirector and subject changer for calling you out on your flip flop?

i'll try to use really small sentences from now on so you'll be sure to follow. my apologies.

[DukeNukeEm]

ok let me see if i can clarify this...

 

Nuke was b****ing about drone strikes, and I brought up the patriot act because most republicans who NOW b**** about drone strikes SUPPORTED the patriot act, of which these drone strikes are an expansion! that's not misdirecting or changing the subject in the least bit.

The policies that enabled the drone problem are not limited to the Patriot Act. They go back a very long time.

 

The funny thing is back in the days of the OSS/earlier CIA they kind just did whatever they wanted and nobody knew about it. Then people found out and got pissed so they just passed a bunch of laws enabling them to do a lot of the same s*** but this time with legislative approval. I dont know which I'd prefer, a complicit government or an ignorant one?

[Reddy]

The policies that enabled the drone problem are not limited to the Patriot Act. They go back a very long time.

 

The funny thing is back in the days of the OSS/earlier CIA they kind just did whatever they wanted and nobody knew about it. Then people found out and got pissed so they just passed a bunch of laws enabling them to do a lot of the same s*** but this time with legislative approval. I dont know which I'd prefer, a complicit government or an ignorant one?

 

Yep, exactly. Of course the policies aren't limited to the Patriot Act, and of course SS is right that many similar policies have been in effect for a long, long time. But like I said the Patriot Act was a public endorsement of these policies and as such, were supported by the right and panned by the left. Since then, the flip flop among the GOP is incredibly hypocritical, but such is American politics.

[Soxbadger]

Imagine if politicians did their job. I bet money that it would be raining money and problems albeit not every would be solved at a greater rate.

 

Eh politicians are people. People have the profound ability to want to argue instead of finding common ground.

 

IE

 

It seems that people dont like patriot act/drone strikes. Yet instead of going "Hey we both think this is bad, lets stop it", they instead fight about which side is worse.

 

[southsider2k5]

ok let me see if i can clarify this...

 

Nuke was b****ing about drone strikes, and I brought up the patriot act because most republicans who NOW b**** about drone strikes SUPPORTED the patriot act, of which these drone strikes are an expansion! that's not misdirecting or changing the subject in the least bit.

 

So how is that different than me bringing up the Alien and Sedition Act? All of the policies of targeting American citizens for being "disloyal" can pretty much be traced back to there.

[southsider2k5]

i'll try to use really small sentences from now on so you'll be sure to follow. my apologies.

 

You could do that, or you could not be a hypocrite. But the first is easier for you for sure.

[StrangeSox]

There is a massive chasm between our use of drones internationally and the proposal of using them domestically within our borders that you just kind of shrug off.

 

I think they are both very serious issues worthy of concern.

 

But, again, I've no reason to believe that Rand Paul etc. would be less-bad on even the domestic issue:

 

I’ve never argued against any technology being used when you have an imminent threat, an active crime going on. If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and fifty dollars in cash, I don’t care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him…

 

If there’s a killer on the loose in a neighborhood, I’m not against drones being used to search them out, heat-seeking devices being used, I’m all for law enforcement. I’m just not for surveillance when there’s not probable cause that there’s a crime being committed.

 

[Reddy]

You could do that, or you could not be a hypocrite. But the first is easier for you for sure.

 

show me where I was being hypocritical please. I support neither the Patriot Act nor drone strikes.

[StrangeSox]

The funny part is that the last damage to her approval rating was done during the Democratic primaries. Those were her lowest numbers since Bill's impeachment.

Yeah, I noted that when I posted the Gallup poll. Probably a bunch of Obama-supporting Democrats who were in the middle of the primary struggle.

[Reddy]

So how is that different than me bringing up the Alien and Sedition Act? All of the policies of targeting American citizens for being "disloyal" can pretty much be traced back to there.

it isn't. did you bring up the Alien and Sedition act, and did I miss it? Did you support it when it was put in place? How old does that make you?

[StrangeSox]

So how is that different than me bringing up the Alien and Sedition Act? All of the policies of targeting American citizens for being "disloyal" can pretty much be traced back to there.

Sure, but it's not exactly relevant if we're talking about 21st century US politics and what sort of policies a given party supports.

[pettie4sox]

Eh politicians are people. People have the profound ability to want to argue instead of finding common ground.

 

IE

 

It seems that people dont like patriot act/drone strikes. Yet instead of going "Hey we both think this is bad, lets stop it", they instead fight about which side is worse.

 

QFT. I think it's hilarious how people argue that one party is better than the other. It's like the special olympics. Republicans and Democrats are all one breed, politicians!

[StrangeSox]

QFT. I think it's hilarious how people argue that one party is better than the other. It's like the special olympics. Republicans and Democrats are all one breed, politicians!

Both parties being very far from perfect doesn't mean that one isn't demonstrably worse on basically every major policy area.

[pettie4sox]

Both parties being very far from perfect doesn't mean that one isn't demonstrably worse on basically every major policy area.

 

True, it's a generalization. Seriously, they don't really do anything to help the people of this country. They all just pretend to care when it comes to election time.

Edited August 26, 2013 by pettie4sox

[southsider2k5]

Sure, but it's not exactly relevant if we're talking about 21st century US politics and what sort of policies a given party supports.

 

Again, an arbitrary line in the sand designed for party politics. Apparently nothing happened under Bill Clinton?

[southsider2k5]

show me where I was being hypocritical please. I support neither the Patriot Act nor drone strikes.

 

Yet, back there you were defending it by saying it was only an extension of another policy.

[Reddy]

Both parties being very far from perfect doesn't mean that one isn't demonstrably worse on basically every major policy area.

 

while you may be right about that, it all comes down to the overarching conceptual aspects for me. nope, neither party is perfect in practice, but one party generally supports helping people in need and encouraging equality - in other words, has ALL of its peoples' best interest in mind, not just the 1% (again, this is ideal and conceptual but sometimes fails in practice), and the other party does the opposite. that is the fundamental difference between the two.

 

when you get to things like foreign policy and the like, the two are nearly identical.

[Reddy]

Yet, back there you were defending it by saying it was only an extension of another policy.

how is calling it an extension of another policy a defense of that policy? please elaborate.

[StrangeSox]

Again, an arbitrary line in the sand designed for party politics. Apparently nothing happened under Bill Clinton?

 

I didn't say that, did I? Both parties are pretty much s*** on this issue.

[southsider2k5]

I didn't say that, did I? Both parties are pretty much s*** on this issue.

 

But your subconscious did by making the line Bush. Or at least that is what you would say if this was about race.