GT 8/23: The Return of Alex & Anthony

[2nd_city_saint787]

either that, or a troll

 

I'll give the man some credit and say he's just hung up on 2005. He thinks we could have contended with AJ on our team, yet doesn't think we can compete at all next year. He thinks we lack power yet he hates Adam Dunn and loves PK. His love for Ozzie is also well documented.

 

He's just gotta move on.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

1 more immediately ruled Ground Rule Doubles, this one going in to the ivy at Wrigley.

 

http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=18716879&c_id=mlb

 

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

If the plan was to compete this year, not signing AJ was f***ing hystericaly awful move. That said he wouldn't make a difference for this year.

 

I don't think the plan was ever to compete this year, hence no real major signings or trade upgrades. I think we will see a similar offseason this winter as well.

[Noonskadoodle]

Amateur MLB Umps even though ACTUAL MLB Umps need to be replaced by TECHNOLOGY have the final say in ANYTHING regarding Umps because they know the supposed "RULES" even in a judgement call situation.

 

I raise my white flag.

 

You win.

[greg775]

But he played on the only chicago championship baseball team in 85 some odd years!!! and he can catch the ball!!! that has to be worth a 2 year deal!!!

How bout a one-year deal at 2-3 million a year? He might bounce back. I won't cry if he leaves, I'm just predicting he doesn't want to retire after a season like this. Like I said before, he's not at the point where Carlton Fisk was and HAD to retire. When Fisk couldn't see the ball anymore. Konerko is not an embarrasment at first base. Maybe he's finished at the plate. But it won't cost the Sox much to find out.

 

I'll give the man some credit and say he's just hung up on 2005. He thinks we could have contended with AJ on our team, yet doesn't think we can compete at all next year. He thinks we lack power yet he hates Adam Dunn and loves PK. His love for Ozzie is also well documented.

He's just gotta move on.

 

If you remember all this about me, maybe you secretly are challenged by my posts and like my posts. Were you never taught that a dissenting opinion is not always bad? It would be stupid if everybody agreed with everybody all the time.

I also never said for sure we could have contended with AJ. I presented the possibility, that yes, the long stretch of losing starting with getting swept by the Cubs MIGHT have been avoided. Maybe the horrible defense and baserunning mistakes could have been nipped earlier with a guy like AJP around. We'll never know.

We do lack power. Dunn has 28 home runs. Great. He's still not a productive hitter. Nobody can say he's a productive hitter and be correct.

Why do I have to move on? Because I disagree with you? Great.

[IlliniKrush]

Amateur MLB Umps even though ACTUAL MLB Umps need to be replaced by TECHNOLOGY have the final say in ANYTHING regarding Umps because they know the supposed "RULES" even in a judgement call situation.

 

I raise my white flag.

 

You win.

Haha, this is comedic gold right here.

 

I'm still waiting for you to spell out exactly how the umpire erred, using everything you've learned by being an umpire and going to umpire school. Let me know.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Yeah, you're completely lost. It's fine.

 

Rules mean nothing to you. OK then.

 

 

OK, so if we're not MLB umpires we shouldn't talk about it. But hey, Johnny Sox fan knows 100x more about rules than an actual umpire. Got it.

 

This isn't a ground rule, second of all, it is a rule book rule.

 

If he throws his arms up and walks away, and the umpire rules it a lodged ball, yes, batter-runner goes to 2nd. It doesn't matter if every guy goes all the way around the bases (and they should, always make umpires put you back), they'll get placed back.

 

It's on Tank to make a call. If he can't find it, or he thinks it's lodged, he needs to throw his arms up, and walk away. It's not a situation, down the line, where the umpire will just rule it dead without being right on top of it, or without waiting to see how the player reacts - does he go play it (Tank did), or does he throw his arms up and walk away (he did not).

 

Is it always an easy call for the fielder at that point? No, but he needed to do one or the other. He basically tried to do both. But the bottom line is that he went for the ball and got it. There's no umpire ruling when that happens, it's just a normal live ball.

We can talk about it without you trying to flaunt your authority because your not an authority in a major league game or in that park.You know more about the rules I'll give you that. It's a unique situation and you can be civil instead of sarcastic. We're arguing for the same reason Robin was arguing. There's no way a ball thats in the park should be an inside the park HR ever unless the ball is being chased down because it bounces away or outfielders collide. And in those instances the ball is clearly visible. Common sense would tell you thats a ground rule double . To the fielder it's like the ball bouncing into the stands . He can't make a play on it when it goes into the stands just as he couldn't make a play on a ball he can't see because of his view was obstructed by park factors other than being blinded by lights. When its out of play the ump immediately calls it as such. Just because the ball was on top of a hose and moving freely until it rolled to a stop under there does not mean it was in play . It should've been ruled a fair ball and out of play

Edited August 24, 2013 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Buehrle>Wood]

I don't think the plan was ever to compete this year, hence no real major signings or trade upgrades. I think we will see a similar offseason this winter as well.

Yes, I'm not sure what our plan was or is. We will see.

[2nd_city_saint787]

How bout a one-year deal at 2-3 million a year? He might bounce back. I won't cry if he leaves, I'm just predicting he doesn't want to retire after a season like this. Like I said before, he's not at the point where Carlton Fisk was and HAD to retire. When Fisk couldn't see the ball anymore. Konerko is not an embarrasment at first base. Maybe he's finished at the plate. But it won't cost the Sox much to find out.

 

 

 

If you remember all this about me, maybe you secretly are challenged by my posts and like my posts. Were you never taught that a dissenting opinion is not always bad? It would be stupid if everybody agreed with everybody all the time.

I also never said for sure we could have contended with AJ. I presented the possibility, that yes, the long stretch of losing starting with getting swept by the Cubs MIGHT have been avoided. Maybe the horrible defense and baserunning mistakes could have been nipped earlier with a guy like AJP around. We'll never know.

We do lack power. Dunn has 28 home runs. Great. He's still not a productive hitter. Nobody can say he's a productive hitter and be correct.

Why do I have to move on? Because I disagree with you? Great.

 

 

No, I'm fine with you having an opinion, in fact they are highly entertaining in a frustrating 2013 White Sox kinda way. I just think they are often times outlandish and most of the times the common denominator too your foolishness seems to be your love for the 05 team. Which is great man, I love that team as much as you do but it's just not 2005 anymore.

 

If they wanna continue to suck and rack up another high draft pick, which you are so adamantly against, then sure bring back PK. Chances are you don't compete with him at 1B/DH because once his back, wrist, or whatever flames back up you're not going to get proper production from a position that is supposed to produce. First base isn't SS or CF where you can get by on having a defense first player thrown out there, and at this point PK isn't even that....You bring up the fact that the Sox suck at home a lot and the fact that it puzzles you... PK is batting .202/.284/.294 at home this year...there's your reason why we're losing at home.

Edited August 24, 2013 by scs787

[chw42]

either that, or a troll

 

If Greg was a troll, he'd be the greatest troll of all time. He's been doing this for years.

[LittleHurt05]

How bout a one-year deal at 2-3 million a year? He might bounce back. I won't cry if he leaves, I'm just predicting he doesn't want to retire after a season like this. Like I said before, he's not at the point where Carlton Fisk was and HAD to retire. When Fisk couldn't see the ball anymore. Konerko is not an embarrasment at first base. Maybe he's finished at the plate. But it won't cost the Sox much to find out.

 

 

 

If you remember all this about me, maybe you secretly are challenged by my posts and like my posts. Were you never taught that a dissenting opinion is not always bad? It would be stupid if everybody agreed with everybody all the time.

I also never said for sure we could have contended with AJ. I presented the possibility, that yes, the long stretch of losing starting with getting swept by the Cubs MIGHT have been avoided. Maybe the horrible defense and baserunning mistakes could have been nipped earlier with a guy like AJP around. We'll never know.

We do lack power. Dunn has 28 home runs. Great. He's still not a productive hitter. Nobody can say he's a productive hitter and be correct.

Why do I have to move on? Because I disagree with you? Great.

 

If AJP was so important in the clubhouse why did the 2012 Sox collapse? Why did the 2009-2010 Sox get embarrassed by the Twins. Why did the 2008 Sox get swept with the season on the line? Why didn't AJ nip that bad play?

[IlliniKrush]

We can talk about it without you trying to flaunt your authority because your not an authority in a major league game or in that park.You know more about the rules I'll give you that. It's a unique situation and you can be civil instead of sarcastic. We're arguing for the same reason Robin was arguing. There's no way a ball thats in the park should be an inside the park HR ever unless the ball is being chased down because it bounces away or outfielders collide. And in those instances the ball is clearly visible. Common sense would tell you thats a ground rule double . To the fielder it's like the ball bouncing into the stands . He can't make a play on it when it goes into the stands just as he couldn't make a play on a ball he can't see because of his view was obstructed by park factors other than being blinded by lights. When its out of play the ump immediately calls it as such. Just because the ball was on top of a hose and moving freely until it rolled to a stop under there does not mean it was in play . It should've been ruled a fair ball and out of play

First of all the major league and fed rules for lodged ball are the same. Second of all, to reiterate, it's not a ground rule, it's a rule book rule.

 

You and the other guy keep missing the point. Essentially what you guys are coming up with is you think that based on where the ball was, it should be dead. The problem is, that point is irrelevant to what the umpire did. If I didn't see the play, from what you just posted, I would assume Tank threw his arms up, walked away, ump came out and ruled it a live ball, and as a result, a HR. As we all know, that's not what happened.

 

What you guys don't know is the rule book, but more importantly, umpire mechanics. When the ball is out there, and Dayan is looking, the ump is doing what is called "chasing," which you can see him doing in the replay. He's starting to jog out there to watch for fan interference, and get closer in case something like a lodged ball comes into play. You never rule a ball dead from afar unless it's completely out of play or you see it touched by a fan.

 

So, the umpire observes the play and the fielder. Essentially, he's waiting for the fielder to make a play. It is NOT the umpire's responsibility to rule the ball dead, from afar, without the player indicating that he believes that is the case (and even then, you don't rule it dead just because a player thinks so). The onus, per the case book, is on the fielder to do something, whether that's play it, or determine he can't find it/considers it lodged. Think about it - the umpire is not running out there calling a dead ball from 90 feet away and then the fielder picks up the ball since it wasn't lodged. Umpires don't kill plays unless something warrants it. In this case, umpires are taught to let this type of instance play itself out, and react to the fielders. He can always rule it a lodged ball after getting all the information, and place baserunners backwards. He can't kill the play, then all the sudden rule it a live ball and re-start or play imaginary baseball and place runners somewhere else.

 

If the fielder throws his arms up and walks away, that prompts a closer inspection. During this time, the ball is still live. Baserunners move. You don't rule it live/dead until you are AT the location of the ball. These types of plays happen at the outfield fence as well, and umpires have to go all the way out there before making a ruling.

 

If the fielder, at any point, goes into play the ball, the ball remains live, even if he can't get to it.

 

What happened here is that the ump was chasing and the fielder went and dug and found the ball. There was no ruling to be made, no dead ball call to be made, the play was business as usual based on the fielder's actions.

 

Dayan simply didn't know what to do in this situation.

Edited August 24, 2013 by IlliniKrush

[greg775]

No, I'm fine with you having an opinion, in fact they are highly entertaining in a frustrating 2013 White Sox kinda way. I just think they are often times outlandish and most of the times the common denominator too your foolishness seems to be your love for the 05 team. Which is great man, I love that team as much as you do but it's just not 2005 anymore.

 

If they wanna continue to suck and rack up another high draft pick, which you are so adamantly against, then sure bring back PK. Chances are you don't compete with him at 1B/DH because once his back, wrist, or whatever flames back up you're not going to get proper production from a position that is supposed to produce. First base isn't SS or CF where you can get by on having a defense first player thrown out there, and at this point PK isn't even that....You bring up the fact that the Sox suck at home a lot and the fact that it puzzles you... PK is batting .202/.284/.294 at home this year...there's your reason why we're losing at home.

Yeah, I won't sob if he doesn't come back. He's been a lousy hitter the last year and a half. But if he's truly finished, then no team will want to pick him up (except maybe the Sox for sentimental reasons, giving him one last chance to get it back). My guess is somebody decides he still has some pop in his bat and will give him a one-year deal. Maybe not. His power numbers are so far down his career may not continue a year or two more as Thome's did.

 

If AJP was so important in the clubhouse why did the 2012 Sox collapse? Why did the 2009-2010 Sox get embarrassed by the Twins. Why did the 2008 Sox get swept with the season on the line? Why didn't AJ nip that bad play?

 

You could be right. It might not have made a difference. He's portrayed as a guy who cares deeply about winning, thus I figured he might have been a reason for the team not to tank so early in the season.

[ron883]

Yeah, I won't sob if he doesn't come back. He's been a lousy hitter the last year and a half. But if he's truly finished, then no team will want to pick him up (except maybe the Sox for sentimental reasons, giving him one last chance to get it back). My guess is somebody decides he still has some pop in his bat and will give him a one-year deal. Maybe not. His power numbers are so far down his career may not continue a year or two more as Thome's did.

 

 

 

You could be right. It might not have made a difference. He's portrayed as a guy who cares deeply about winning, thus I figured he might have been a reason for the team not to tank so early in the season.

lol, you're a riot greg. truly.

Edited August 24, 2013 by ron883