Flowers to have shoulder surgery

[Jake]

Phegley has had a much different developmental track. He was sidetracked from the get-go with the autoimmune disease, which was followed by aggressive promotions as well as another orthopedic injury. This year in AAA was the first time he has ever repeated a level.

 

That isn't to say Phegley is going to be great or even better than Flowers, but looking at minor league numbers for Phegley is going to be fairly non-informative. This was basically his first time repeating a level this year, which I mentioned. Beyond that, he was consistently being promoted before reaching any decent measure of success due to his having lost a year to disease. We tried to promote him to age-appropriate levels regardless of production, which is not unheard of for our system.

[southsider2k5]

I don't know about anyone else, but I flat out have no idea what we have in Phegley and Flowers at catcher, after hearing of

Flowers injury.

[witesoxfan]

I don't know about anyone else, but I flat out have no idea what we have in Phegley and Flowers at catcher, after hearing of

Flowers injury.

 

I have no problem upgrading from either of them.

[southsider2k5]

I have no problem upgrading from either of them.

 

The thing is if you can get major league production out of either of them, that saves you a huge contract that can be spent somewhere else. And if you aren't planning on competing in 2014, those are the kinds of things you need to figure out.

[fathom]

I don't know about anyone else, but I flat out have no idea what we have in Phegley and Flowers at catcher, after hearing of

Flowers injury.

 

I despise Flowers' guess approach at the plate. That might be able to work in the minors, but in the majors, it's badly exposed his batting eye. Personally, if you want to contend, neither Phegley or Flowers is starting caliber IMO. Both would make a good back-up catcher to a strong lefty hitting catcher.

[witesoxfan]

I despise Flowers' guess approach at the plate. That might be able to work in the minors, but in the majors, it's badly exposed his batting eye. Personally, if you want to contend, neither Phegley or Flowers is starting caliber IMO. Both would make a good back-up catcher to a strong lefty hitting catcher.

 

I honestly agree with this, and I think Phegley may be a guy you can groom into the every day job. Still, McCann isn't the the most attractive option in the world either being a fat catcher with injury concerns.

[Eminor3rd]

I have no problem upgrading from either of them.

 

Thinking about those two just makes McCann sound like a better idea. I would hate it if he had to be a C the whole time, but assuming Konerko retires soon and Dunn walks after next year, signing McCann sound like a great move for 2015/2016 even. And the meatballs would be satisfied during 2014.

[TaylorStSox]

We're all familiar with Phegley's history. That was no normal spike though. That was like a Brady Anderson lite spike.

 

As far as Flowers' approach. It's not that he's guessing as much as he's not aggressive early in the count. He's constantly falling behind in the count and doesn't have the bat speed to fight off pitches consistently.

[witesoxfan]

We're all familiar with Phegley's history. That was no normal spike though. That was like a Brady Anderson lite spike.

 

As far as Flowers' approach. It's not that he's guessing as much as he's not aggressive early in the count. He's constantly falling behind in the count and doesn't have the bat speed to fight off pitches consistently.

 

Yep, players have a tendency to spike. You'd think if he were still using - considering the tests in the minors are just as hard, if not harder - he'd have an OPS better than .550.

 

Guys get hot. The best thing to do would be to hope that he can pick it up and continue.

[Eminor3rd]

Yep, players have a tendency to spike. You'd think if he were still using - considering the tests in the minors are just as hard, if not harder - he'd have an OPS better than .550.

 

Guys get hot. The best thing to do would be to hope that he can pick it up and continue.

 

This ^

 

It's much more likely that he just played way over his head for a bit and the Sox tried to catch lightning in a bottle than it is he has been on steroids. He was all but a lost cause before it, remember, so it makes sense the Sox would promote him to see if he could stay afloat. It's not like Flowers was making a case otherwise.

[fathom]

We're all familiar with Phegley's history. That was no normal spike though. That was like a Brady Anderson lite spike.

 

As far as Flowers' approach. It's not that he's guessing as much as he's not aggressive early in the count. He's constantly falling behind in the count and doesn't have the bat speed to fight off pitches consistently.

 

He takes a ton of called 3rd strikes on center-cut pitches.

[Dick Allen]

He takes a ton of called 3rd strikes on center-cut pitches.

He also check swung, but too far and he gone, at a pitch at a game I was at a couple of weeks ago that bounced 4 feet in front of home plate. It barely cleared the grass. Watching him swing at that and , like you stated take so many right down the middle, has zero to do with his shoulder. He is not a good hitter. There may be a time he gets hot and hits you some homers, but I don't see Flowers having sustained success with the bat. IMO, he is perfectly fine as a back up. Pick his spots and he could be a little more dangerous.

[TaylorStSox]

He takes a ton of called 3rd strikes on center-cut pitches.

Good point.

[Eminor3rd]

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...&position=C

 

Not sure about sequencing at all, of course, but it's interesting that he actually takes fewer pitches in the zone than league average -- the trouble is that he makes much less contact on those pitches than average. He also swings at a ton more pitches out of the zone of course.

[Balta1701]

He also check swung, but too far and he gone, at a pitch at a game I was at a couple of weeks ago that bounced 4 feet in front of home plate. It barely cleared the grass. Watching him swing at that and , like you stated take so many right down the middle, has zero to do with his shoulder. He is not a good hitter. There may be a time he gets hot and hits you some homers, but I don't see Flowers having sustained success with the bat. IMO, he is perfectly fine as a back up. Pick his spots and he could be a little more dangerous.

Isn't it possible that having an injured shoulder could screw with your approach? If your shoulder hurts when you're starting your swing, you're going to start your swing earlier and have a tougher time recognizing pitches and holding back on things.

[southsider2k5]

Isn't it possible that having an injured shoulder could screw with your approach? If your shoulder hurts when you're starting your swing, you're going to start your swing earlier and have a tougher time recognizing pitches and holding back on things.

 

Could also lead to changes in swing plane depending on where in the swing it hurts.