Official 2013-2014 College Hoops Thread

[RockRaines]

And it's also funny saying teams are overrated when they lose in conference. News flash, nobody is getting through the Big Ten undefeated.

[Buehrle>Wood]

And it's also funny saying teams are overrated when they lose in conference. News flash, nobody is getting through the Big Ten undefeated.

Illinois was overrated when they were ranked and lost to Northwestern. f*** that s***.

[Dick Allen]

And it's also funny saying teams are overrated when they lose in conference. News flash, nobody is getting through the Big Ten undefeated.

And on the road in the Big Ten, almost every game, the road team probably has a legit beef about how the game was called. If you win road games against the top half of the conference, it's gravy.

[Soxbadger]

If you win at home and dont massively screw up against a bad team on the road you have a shot at the Big10 title. Big10 is a deep league with a ton of talent, not to mention most home arenas have pretty great environments.

[farmteam]

Wait. How is IU devoid of talent with the best recruiting classes EVAR???

Neither I nor He Gawn ever argued that IU is currently (within the past 3 seasons) devoid of talent. I was merely responding to SB saying "Even at their lowest Indiana is full of players that are supposedly more talented than Wisconsin." That's it. I pointed out IU's three worst years (08-09, 09-10, 10-11) in the middle of the streak to show that his statement was absurd on its face. But he kept babbling about Zeller and moving the goalposts.

 

If you're talking about right now, IU might be more talented (definitely more athletic) than Wisconsin, but its raw. Still a young team that will continue to have its ups and downs, and certainly frustrate me as the year goes on.

[farmteam]

And apparently this board wasn't the only place discussing court storming.

 

Eamonn Brennan: IU students don't care about your rules. Mostly lines up with B>W's thinking.

[He_Gawn]

Neither I nor He Gawn ever argued that IU is currently (within the past 3 seasons) devoid of talent. I was merely responding to SB saying "Even at their lowest Indiana is full of players that are supposedly more talented than Wisconsin." That's it. I pointed out IU's three worst years (08-09, 09-10, 10-11) in the middle of the streak to show that his statement was absurd on its face. But he kept babbling about Zeller and moving the goalposts.

 

If you're talking about right now, IU might be more talented (definitely more athletic) than Wisconsin, but its raw. Still a young team that will continue to have its ups and downs, and certainly frustrate me as the year goes on.

 

Spot on.

[Soxbadger]

Neither I nor He Gawn ever argued that IU is currently (within the past 3 seasons) devoid of talent. I was merely responding to SB saying "Even at their lowest Indiana is full of players that are supposedly more talented than Wisconsin." That's it. I pointed out IU's three worst years (08-09, 09-10, 10-11) in the middle of the streak to show that his statement was absurd on its face. But he kept babbling about Zeller and moving the goalposts.

 

Its called hyperbole. Over the last 10 years Im sure that Wisconsin has had 1-2 teams that may have been more talented. Maybe not by recruiting stars though.

 

If Im actually making a factual comment I wouldnt use the qualifier "supposedly".

[RockRaines]

And apparently this board wasn't the only place discussing court storming.

 

Eamonn Brennan: IU students don't care about your rules. Mostly lines up with B>W's thinking.

Alot of those students are young and their best experience as a fan and student was Crean cutting down the nets in an empty stadium after a loss. I dont fault them for thinking it was a big win. Not that many of them were alive when IU was a perennial power.

[RockRaines]

Neither I nor He Gawn ever argued that IU is currently (within the past 3 seasons) devoid of talent. I was merely responding to SB saying "Even at their lowest Indiana is full of players that are supposedly more talented than Wisconsin." That's it. I pointed out IU's three worst years (08-09, 09-10, 10-11) in the middle of the streak to show that his statement was absurd on its face. But he kept babbling about Zeller and moving the goalposts.

 

If you're talking about right now, IU might be more talented (definitely more athletic) than Wisconsin, but its raw. Still a young team that will continue to have its ups and downs, and certainly frustrate me as the year goes on.

Since 2007 IU has had 4 top 10 classes. In 2007 they recruited 3 top 100 players. In 2009 they had 4 top 100 players. In that timeframe Wisconsin has had zero top ten classes.

 

Youth is not really a handicap in college ball when you bring in blue chip players.

[farmteam]

Its called hyperbole. Over the last 10 years Im sure that Wisconsin has had 1-2 teams that may have been more talented. Maybe not by recruiting stars though.

 

If Im actually making a factual comment I wouldnt use the qualifier "supposedly".

If this were actually the case you could have walked it back immediately instead of trying to talk about Zeller and Oladipo being first rounders. But I digress.

[farmteam]

Since 2007 IU has had 4 top 10 classes. In 2007 they recruited 3 top 100 players. In 2009 they had 4 top 100 players. In that timeframe Wisconsin has had zero top ten classes.

 

Youth is not really a handicap in college ball when you bring in blue chip players.

Again, this was all stated in the context of responding to Badger about IU's low years. All of the 2007 recruits you refer to were gone by the following year (08-09). And those 4 top 100 2009 players still won a grand total of 7 Big Ten games their first two years. And the other top classes were the past 3 years, where, again yes, IU was just as talented if not moreso than Wisconsin.

 

I agree it's not a handicap when they're blue chips (but I consider blue chips to be top 25 guys, not top 100). For example, this year Vonleh only just turned 18 in August, but yeah he's probably more presently talented than anyone on Wisconsin, despite his youth.

[Soxbadger]

You posted about Olidapo being raw, I asked if he was a 1st round draft pick. The point being, I said "supposedly more talented" the reason being, I didnt believe Indiana was more talented, I just was always being told by Indiana fans how great every player that went to Indiana was.

 

That was the joke/hyperbole, that every year Indiana fans say how much more talent they have than Wisconsin (hell Hulls was better rated than most Wisconsin player) and then when they lose they say how little talent they have.

 

No need to backtrack, Im not the one saying Indiana is a better more talented program than Wisconsin over the last 10 years. That would be Indiana fans.

 

(edit)

 

In so many words you proved my point.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Soxbadger

[farmteam]

You posted about Olidapo being raw, I asked if he was a 1st round draft pick. The point being, I said "supposedly more talented" the reason being, I didnt believe Indiana was more talented, I just was always being told by Indiana fans how great every player that went to Indiana was.

 

That was the joke/hyperbole, that every year Indiana fans say how much more talent they have than Wisconsin (hell Hulls was better rated than most Wisconsin player) and then when they lose they say how little talent they have.

 

No need to backtrack, Im not the one saying Indiana is a better more talented program than Wisconsin over the last 10 years. That would be Indiana fans.

 

(edit)

 

In so many words you proved my point.

Better =/= more talented. And for the time I was talking about, 10-11 (Oladipo's freshman year), Wisconsin WAS more talented. And better. Like I've said, many times.

 

I would think it's adorable you think I proved your point, but you've tried to make so many points and moved the goal posts so many times I don't even know which point you think I proved.

 

And now I'm just mad at myself for letting myself get dragged into one of your pissing matches.

 

EDIT: And as to: "No need to backtrack, Im not the one saying Indiana is a better more talented program than Wisconsin over the last 10 years. That would be Indiana fans."

 

No. That would be you saying Indiana fans say that. Maybe some do. They're dumb. But it wasn't even brought up until you mentioned your "joke/hyperbole" comment.

Edited January 15, 2014 by farmteam

[RockRaines]

Again, this was all stated in the context of responding to Badger about IU's low years. All of the 2007 recruits you refer to were gone by the following year (08-09). And those 4 top 100 2009 players still won a grand total of 7 Big Ten games their first two years. And the other top classes were the past 3 years, where, again yes, IU was just as talented if not moreso than Wisconsin.

 

I agree it's not a handicap when they're blue chips (but I consider blue chips to be top 25 guys, not top 100). For example, this year Vonleh only just turned 18 in August, but yeah he's probably more presently talented than anyone on Wisconsin, despite his youth.

Results after recruiting those much more talented players actually shows coaching and program deficiencies if anything. Since the beginning of your "low year" spectrum IU has always had higher rated players. And that has continued to today. IU should have won a majority of those games over the years, but of course the difference has been Bo Ryan.

[farmteam]

Results after recruiting those much more talented players actually shows coaching and program deficiencies if anything. Since the beginning of your "low year" spectrum IU has always had higher rated players. And that has continued to today. IU should have won a majority of those games over the years, but of course the difference has been Bo Ryan.

Under what metric in 2008-09 did IU have higher rated players? That's simply not true.

 

And of course Bo Ryan is a better coach than Crean. Duh. That's why I was so pissed Crean called that time out after Yogi hit the free throws to put us up 3 with 15 seconds left when Wisconsin had zero timeouts. All it did was give Ryan a chance to outcoach him. Crean's the better recruiter, Ryan's the better coach. Simple.

[Soxbadger]

Better =/= more talented. And for the time I was talking about, 10-11 (Oladipo's freshman year), Wisconsin WAS more talented. And better. Like I've said, many times.

 

I would think it's adorable you think I proved your point, but you've tried to make so many points and moved the goal posts so many times I don't even know which point you think I proved.

 

And now I'm just mad at myself for letting myself get dragged into one of your pissing matches.

 

99.9% of this conversation wasnt directed at you, its just a conversation of the nonsense He_Gawn has been spouting over the last X years.

 

Youre a reasonable poster, you call it how you see it, I have no problem with your arguments.

 

The point I was making is that Wisconsin over the tenure of Bo Ryan is at least as good as Indiana. Not many Indiana fans are willing to admit Wisconsin was better even for 1 year, its always an excuse.

[Boogua]

Illinois is somehow -6 against Purdue with rayvonte rice a game time decision. This looks like a gift from the heavens, as I would take Purdue even with rice playing here. Somehow the Illini will win by 7 because Vegas always knows...

[farmteam]

The point I was making is that Wisconsin over the tenure of Bo Ryan is at least as good as Indiana.

Probably better. During that time we had the Mike Davis Experiment (which admittedly did somehow involve a trip to the National Championship, plenty of talent to compete) and the Sampson Explosion and its aftermath. Crean's a great recruiter but not so much a coach.

 

What I'm curious to see is what happens when Ryan leaves in ~5 years (he is 66 after all). It'd be funny if all of a sudden Wisconsin starts playing at a breakneck pace.

[He_Gawn]

99.9% of this conversation wasnt directed at you, its just a conversation of the nonsense He_Gawn has been spouting over the last X years.

 

Youre a reasonable poster, you call it how you see it, I have no problem with your arguments.

 

The point I was making is that Wisconsin over the tenure of Bo Ryan is at least as good as Indiana. Not many Indiana fans are willing to admit Wisconsin was better even for 1 year, its always an excuse.

 

You keep saying how you barely know any Indiana fans, except on this board. Who's refusing to admit Wisconsin has been a better team of late? That whole "moving of the goal post" bulls*** you spewed keeps getting turned back on you, because you clearly have no idea what you're even arguing anymore. Wisconsin has kicked Indiana's ass for the last 5-6 years. You keep saying we're throwing out all these "excuses". Wisconsin has been very solid for years now. Is Indiana dying to be Wisconsin?

 

Hell. No.

 

And before the goal posts get moved again. That's not a slap in the face to Wisconsin. This is as good as Wisconsin has ever been as a program. Indiana fans, along with the program, just want more.

[farmteam]

Illinois is somehow -6 against Purdue with rayvonte rice a game time decision. This looks like a gift from the heavens, as I would take Purdue even with rice playing here. Somehow the Illini will win by 7 because Vegas always knows...

Eh, it's at home and I don't think Purdue is that good (not that an Indiana fan is biased in that regard or anything...). -6 or -7 sounds about right. And Vegas does always know, it's scary impressive. If you're ever looking at a line and think Vegas knows something you don't, you're right.

[He_Gawn]

Illinois is somehow -6 against Purdue with rayvonte rice a game time decision. This looks like a gift from the heavens, as I would take Purdue even with rice playing here. Somehow the Illini will win by 7 because Vegas always knows...

 

I hope Illinois wins by 50. And Rice better play!

[Soxbadger]

Probably better. During that time we had the Mike Davis Experiment (which admittedly did somehow involve a trip to the National Championship, plenty of talent to compete) and the Sampson Explosion and its aftermath. Crean's a great recruiter but not so much a coach.

 

What I'm curious to see is what happens when Ryan leaves in ~5 years (he is 66 after all). It'd be funny if all of a sudden Wisconsin starts playing at a breakneck pace.

 

I think that theyll have either Tony Bennett or Greg Gard take over.

 

 

You keep saying how you barely know any Indiana fans, except on this board. Who's refusing to admit Wisconsin has been a better team of late? That whole "moving of the goal post" bulls*** you spewed keeps getting turned back on you, because you clearly have no idea what you're even arguing anymore. Wisconsin has kicked Indiana's ass for the last 5-6 years. You keep saying we're throwing out all these "excuses". Wisconsin has been very solid for years now. Is Indiana dying to be Wisconsin?

 

Hell. No.

 

And before the goal posts get moved again. That's not a slap in the face to Wisconsin. This is as good as Wisconsin has ever been as a program. Indiana fans, along with the program, just want more.

 

I actually have no clue what you are talking about (whats new). In the X years ive seen you post here, this is probably the most complimentary thing youve ever said about Wisconsin.

 

So sure, if this is your opinion, then I have no reason why we are arguing. Its just that 1) youve never stated anything like this before and your back tracking now or 2) I completely zone out when I read your posts because I just presume that its nothing more than haterade.

 

I strongly suspect that its 1.

[He_Gawn]

I think that theyll have either Tony Bennett or Greg Gard take over.

 

 

 

 

I actually have no clue what you are talking about (whats new). In the X years ive seen you post here, this is probably the most complimentary thing youve ever said about Wisconsin.

 

So sure, if this is your opinion, then I have no reason why we are arguing. Its just that 1) youve never stated anything like this before and your back tracking now or 2) I completely zone out when I read your posts because I just presume that its nothing more than haterade.

 

I strongly suspect that its 1.

 

Mutual.

Edited January 15, 2014 by He_Gawn

[whitesoxfan99]

Nnanna Egwu is horrendous.