Official 2013-2014 College Hoops Thread

[Brian]

I'm just sayin, if I was an Admin, the March Madness folder would be up and going. Just sayin.

[IlliniKrush]

When a team shoots ~70% from 3 on 20+ attempts it usually means its a blowout.

Exactly, not that hard to understand.

[Brian]

My buddies and I are trying to get a massive bracket pool going. We had 70 last year and trying to see if we can crack that again this year.

 

Sign up or regret it for eternity.

 

https://tournament.fantasysports.yahoo.com/...ket/group/16026

[Buehrle>Wood]

Exactly, not that hard to understand.

I didn't say it was hard to understand. We we played awful and we're not prepared in the least bit. It was a historically bad loss. Inexcusable.

[Boogua]

I didn't say it was hard to understand. We we played awful and we're not prepared in the least bit. It was a historically bad loss. Inexcusable.

It seems like you're making the loss out to be more than it is. What's the difference between losing by 15 points and 30 points? A blowout is a blowout.

 

It was a historically bad loss in terms of point differential, but so what? Losses to teams like miami (ohio), tennessee state, UIC (in chicago), and bradley over the years were worse in my opionion. The program is still headed in the right direction.

 

The only difference between this time today and this time yesterday is that the crazy hope of sneaking into the tournament is gone, outside of winning the BTT.

 

[Kyyle23]

at what point do you guys think you will have a true read on Groce? End of year 3?

[Boogua]

at what point do you guys think you will have a true read on Groce? End of year 3?

I think so. If the Illini don't make the tournament next year, for whatever reason, it will be hard to defend him. I don't think that will be an issue though. The pattern we've seen thus far is good out of conference, hits a rough patch mid season, and then hits stride late in the season. Last night sucked, but the Illini had just beaten teams like Minnesota and MSU on the road.

 

 

[Rowand44]

Just in general I think after year 3 is a fair time frame to at least start judging where the coach/program are at.

[gatnom]

at what point do you guys think you will have a true read on Groce? End of year 3?

 

I think we kind of already have a pretty good read on Groce. A good if not great recruiter who needs more success to truly pull in 5 star talent from the likes of Chicago. He preaches defensive intensity and a pretty unimaginative offense (which is seemingly designed for inefficiency), but as of this point has recruited enough talent to win with his schemes as long as he can find somebody to tie it all together at the PG position.

 

What remains to be seen for me is if his teams continue to underachieve during the regular season but overachieve come tournament time.

 

 

[Buehrle>Wood]

It seems like you're making the loss out to be more than it is. What's the difference between losing by 15 points and 30 points? A blowout is a blowout.

 

It was a historically bad loss in terms of point differential, but so what? Losses to teams like miami (ohio), tennessee state, UIC (in chicago), and bradley over the years were worse in my opionion. The program is still headed in the right direction.

 

The only difference between this time today and this time yesterday is that the crazy hope of sneaking into the tournament is gone, outside of winning the BTT.

We lost by 30 percent more than we ever have on that floor. That's insane considering the hundreds and hundreds of games there. I just want to be competitive again at home. Hopefully that comes with the renovations.

[IlliniKrush]

I didn't say it was hard to understand. We we played awful and we're not prepared in the least bit. It was a historically bad loss. Inexcusable.

They made every 3 that went up. Shot historically well.

 

Yeah, trying to make this worse than it really is.

 

 

[Buehrle>Wood]

They made every 3 that went up. s***'s historically well.

 

Yeah, trying to make this worse than it really is.

We lost by 30 percent more than we ever have at Assembly Hall. I'm not trying to make it worse than it is. It was just that bad.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Buehrle>Wood

[IlliniKrush]

We lost by 30 percent more than we ever have at Assembly Hall. I'm not trying to make it worse than it is. It was just that bad.

Because they shot 70% from 3. 70%. They normally shoot 40.

[Jenksismyhero]

I think we kind of already have a pretty good read on Groce. A good if not great recruiter who needs more success to truly pull in 5 star talent from the likes of Chicago. He preaches defensive intensity and a pretty unimaginative offense (which is seemingly designed for inefficiency), but as of this point has recruited enough talent to win with his schemes as long as he can find somebody to tie it all together at the PG position.

 

What remains to be seen for me is if his teams continue to underachieve during the regular season but overachieve come tournament time.

 

The biggest mistake this season was continuing to keep Nunn and Hill on the bench. Make that change 4-5 weeks earlier and this is a tournament team or at least a bubble team. They don't lose those games against NW, Purdue, OSU, etc. Glad he finally realized his mistake and made the change though. I was concerned he would be a stubborn "these are my guys" type coach like Weber was.

 

My main concern going forward is how well he can coach basic basketball skills. It's a little unfair to him and the coaching staff because he did inherit a lot of the veterans on the team, but i've never seen a team miss more open layups/bunnies near the basket. I've never see a dumber team (bad shot selection, terrible passing, unforced turnovers, etc.). These are things that are pretty basic to basketball and don't require a ton of stars next to your name. And that's why they've lost. You can overcome being a bad offensive team (OSU is awful but still wins bad games). They've beaten themselves too many times, and that happened last year as well.

 

It's also a little upsetting that no one except the freshman really made much of a leap this year. Abrams is the same player as last year. Bertrand regressed. Egwu maybe improved more on defense, stopped fouling as much, and found a jumpshot, but he still doesn't fit into the offense at all except to set picks. Ekey was a bust as a transfer unfortunately. And Rice. Well, on the one hand he carried the team for a while. And then he completely disappeared, which was the main reason they lost those early games. I don't have much faith in him to be all that great considering he still makes terrible decisions. Add him to the top of the list next to Bertrand as one of the dumber players on the team.

 

I think the future looks bright with Nunn and Hill as some decent cornerstones. Black looks like a legit recruit. But with guys like Abrams and Rice still on the roster, they'll be limited. I hope next year Crosby/Starks can really shoot. If not, I can't see them being a tourney team.

[IlliniKrush]

The biggest mistake this season was continuing to keep Nunn and Hill on the bench. Make that change 4-5 weeks earlier and this is a tournament team or at least a bubble team. They don't lose those games against NW, Purdue, OSU, etc. Glad he finally realized his mistake and made the change though. I was concerned he would be a stubborn "these are my guys" type coach like Weber was.

 

My main concern going forward is how well he can coach basic basketball skills. It's a little unfair to him and the coaching staff because he did inherit a lot of the veterans on the team, but i've never seen a team miss more open layups/bunnies near the basket. I've never see a dumber team (bad shot selection, terrible passing, unforced turnovers, etc.). These are things that are pretty basic to basketball and don't require a ton of stars next to your name. And that's why they've lost. You can overcome being a bad offensive team (OSU is awful but still wins bad games). They've beaten themselves too many times, and that happened last year as well.

 

It's also a little upsetting that no one except the freshman really made much of a leap this year. Abrams is the same player as last year. Bertrand regressed. Egwu maybe improved more on defense, stopped fouling as much, and found a jumpshot, but he still doesn't fit into the offense at all except to set picks. Ekey was a bust as a transfer unfortunately. And Rice. Well, on the one hand he carried the team for a while. And then he completely disappeared, which was the main reason they lost those early games. I don't have much faith in him to be all that great considering he still makes terrible decisions. Add him to the top of the list next to Bertrand as one of the dumber players on the team.

 

I think the future looks bright with Nunn and Hill as some decent cornerstones. Black looks like a legit recruit. But with guys like Abrams and Rice still on the roster, they'll be limited. I hope next year Crosby/Starks can really shoot. If not, I can't see them being a tourney team.

He waited a bit too late, but the NW and Purdue games were the 4th and 5th games in the BT, when the team had a great non-conference and had 2 losses. No one said Nunn and Hill should start at that point. That wasn't really any sort of mistake. Those losses aren't on a lack of a different starting lineup.

 

Anyway, he's working with a pretty limited roster. Rice also was way different once he got hurt. Cost us the NW game by himself, and I'm not sure he was ever fully healthy in BT play. I think we're fine next year.

 

[Boogua]

The biggest mistake this season was continuing to keep Nunn and Hill on the bench. Make that change 4-5 weeks earlier and this is a tournament team or at least a bubble team. They don't lose those games against NW, Purdue, OSU, etc. Glad he finally realized his mistake and made the change though. I was concerned he would be a stubborn "these are my guys" type coach like Weber was.

 

My main concern going forward is how well he can coach basic basketball skills. It's a little unfair to him and the coaching staff because he did inherit a lot of the veterans on the team, but i've never seen a team miss more open layups/bunnies near the basket. I've never see a dumber team (bad shot selection, terrible passing, unforced turnovers, etc.). These are things that are pretty basic to basketball and don't require a ton of stars next to your name. And that's why they've lost. You can overcome being a bad offensive team (OSU is awful but still wins bad games). They've beaten themselves too many times, and that happened last year as well.

 

It's also a little upsetting that no one except the freshman really made much of a leap this year. Abrams is the same player as last year. Bertrand regressed. Egwu maybe improved more on defense, stopped fouling as much, and found a jumpshot, but he still doesn't fit into the offense at all except to set picks. Ekey was a bust as a transfer unfortunately. And Rice. Well, on the one hand he carried the team for a while. And then he completely disappeared, which was the main reason they lost those early games. I don't have much faith in him to be all that great considering he still makes terrible decisions. Add him to the top of the list next to Bertrand as one of the dumber players on the team.

 

I think the future looks bright with Nunn and Hill as some decent cornerstones. Black looks like a legit recruit. But with guys like Abrams and Rice still on the roster, they'll be limited. I hope next year Crosby/Starks can really shoot. If not, I can't see them being a tourney team.

So put Nunn and Hill in 4 to 5 weeks earlier and it's a tournament team this year, but it isn't a tournament team next year with everyone back except Ekey (the bust) and Bertrand (who I think is even worse than Ekey). Weird.

 

Also, everything indicates that both Cosby and starks are very good shooters. Especially Cosby who did it in the big East.

[Jenksismyhero]

He waited a bit too late, but the NW and Purdue games were the 4th and 5th games in the BT, when the team had a great non-conference and had 2 losses. No one said Nunn and Hill should start at that point. That wasn't really any sort of mistake. Those losses aren't on a lack of a different starting lineup.

 

Anyway, he's working with a pretty limited roster. Rice also was way different once he got hurt. Cost us the NW game by himself, and I'm not sure he was ever fully healthy in BT play. I think we're fine next year.

 

They didn't have a great non-conference. They had one good win against Missouri that turned out to be OK. They lost to an awful Georgia Tech team despite having a late lead, and they lost to Oregon despite having a late lead. And there were other games, including the beginning of that conference losing stretch, where the freshman brought them back into the game and then Groce went to the seniors to close it out and they lost. I think it was Purdue at home when the upper classman played the last 8 minutes exclusively.

 

I just don't see how the expectations should be much different next year. They still don't have a quality PG. They still don't have much shooting. You can say Starks can be the 3-pt specialist but that was supposed to be Ekey this year and it didn't work out. I still think it's a team that's limited offensively.

[Jenksismyhero]

So put Nunn and Hill in 4 to 5 weeks earlier and it's a tournament team this year, but it isn't a tournament team next year with everyone back except Ekey (the bust) and Bertrand (who I think is even worse than Ekey). Weird.

 

Also, everything indicates that both Cosby and starks are very good shooters. Especially Cosby who did it in the big East.

 

This was a down year in the Big Ten. MSU was hurt all season. Indiana sucked. OSU sucked. They had a shot this year if they had won 3-4 more games. They could be a tournament team next year. I'm just saying I don't think they'll be better without question. They still have some major issues to overcome. And hoping that transfers pan out didn't really work this year, so it might not next year.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[RockRaines]

If anything this was one of the years to be competitive in conference since overall it was a bit down at the top.

[Brian]

I think by the time he's a senior, Darius Paul will be one of the best in the B1G but after watching him in high school, I think a year off could hinder him next year. May take him time to adjust to the conference play.

[IlliniKrush]

They didn't have a great non-conference. They had one good win against Missouri that turned out to be OK. They lost to an awful Georgia Tech team despite having a late lead, and they lost to Oregon despite having a late lead. And there were other games, including the beginning of that conference losing stretch, where the freshman brought them back into the game and then Groce went to the seniors to close it out and they lost. I think it was Purdue at home when the upper classman played the last 8 minutes exclusively.

 

I just don't see how the expectations should be much different next year. They still don't have a quality PG. They still don't have much shooting. You can say Starks can be the 3-pt specialist but that was supposed to be Ekey this year and it didn't work out. I still think it's a team that's limited offensively.

The non-conference is what had everyones expectations higher than when the season started. Only the GT loss was bad. It was a good non-conference overall.

 

Either way, no one was clamoring for Hill and Nunn after the Wisconsin loss. After all, they are freshman. You don't want to throw them into the fire too early either. Hindsight is 20/20. I think he waited too long when the stretch ran long, but the Nw and Purdue losses were happening. If they were later in the schedule, probably not.

[Boogua]

This was a down year in the Big Ten. MSU was hurt all season. Indiana sucked. OSU sucked. They had a shot this year if they had won 3-4 more games. They could be a tournament team next year. I'm just saying I don't think they'll be better without question. They still have some major issues to overcome. And hoping that transfers pan out didn't really work this year, so it might not next year.

If they aren't better, with the number of returning players (5 being freshmen) Groce will be gone.

 

Also, Cosby and starks are power conference transfers. Cosby had good games against final four teams like Louisville and Syracuse last year

[Rowand44]

Good job Heads!!!!

[Brian]

Court storming coming up in Winston-Salem

[caulfield12]

Nebraska definitely put themselves on the Bubble after winning at Indiana.

 

The question is whether they can beat Wisconsin at home this weekend...they do that, they're probably in the tournament with how well Wisconsin has been playing the last 2/3rd's of the BIG 10 schedule, as they would be 11-7 in conference (and Iowa and Ohio State would both be getting in at 10-8 or 9-9 in all likelihood).

 

Or perhaps they would need to win at least one game in the Big 10 tourney, which could be a challenge since they would end up with a 4 seed (just guessing, since I don't expect Iowa to win at Michigan State tmrw night) and have another big game after the bye with either Ohio State or Iowa on a neutral court.

 

 

Just looked up their Big 10 schedule....winners of 7 of their last 8, albeit mostly over softer competition, and the lone loss coming in Champaign. They won at Northwestern and of course at Michigan State, the huge one.

Edited March 6, 2014 by caulfield12