southsider2k5 Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 24, 2013 -> 05:09 PM) They pointed out which guy to hit after seeing the wad he pulled out of his pocket to pay for parking. Sweet home Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 22, 2013 -> 11:43 PM) Why does Robin all of a sudden want to manage forever? If his stance has completely changed, my guess is he'll sign that multi-year extension if it's offered again this offseason. If we suck defensively and on the basepaths again next year, Robin should be on the hotseat. He probably won't be, though, cause Sox are not going to be in the news much next season if we are out of it in May. My guess is attendance also will take a big hit this time if we suck a second consecutive season. Next season? What, pray tell, has he done to keep his job after this season? If his name weren't Robin Ventura, he'd out a week from yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 12:32 AM) Next season? What, pray tell, has he done to keep his job after this season? If his name weren't Robin Ventura, he'd out a week from yesterday. Bravo!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 We changed managers and didn't make the playoffs. Now we'll change players, and if that doesn't work, we'll start changing the manager again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Jake @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 01:03 AM) We changed managers and didn't make the playoffs. Now we'll change players, and if that doesn't work, we'll start changing the manager again. Great post. Well, if there are any Scioscia lovers out there, he's going to be available. I'm more a Francona guy than Scioscia, but do we want to wait and pass on a guy like Scioscia? I really don't want some unproven bench coach as Sox next manager. I'd prefer more of an experienced manager next time. I think LaRussa's stupid for not wanting to manage the Sox, as long as his health is good. What's he doing in retirement that's more fun than spending every day at the ballpark? Edited September 25, 2013 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 24, 2013 -> 10:10 PM) Great post. Well, if there are any Scioscia lovers out there, he's going to be available. I'm more a Francona guy than Scioscia, but do we want to wait and pass on a guy like Scioscia? I really don't want some unproven bench coach as Sox next manager. I'd prefer more of an experienced manager next time. I think LaRussa's stupid for not wanting to manage the Sox, as long as his health is good. What's he doing in retirement that's more fun than spending every day at the ballpark? FYI Franconas winning percentage before coming to Boston was .438, he had 2 90 loss teams in 4 years....He then took over a team who won 90 games 2 years in a row....I think you're overrating Francona here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 24, 2013 -> 10:10 PM) Great post. Well, if there are any Scioscia lovers out there, he's going to be available. I'm more a Francona guy than Scioscia, but do we want to wait and pass on a guy like Scioscia? I really don't want some unproven bench coach as Sox next manager. I'd prefer more of an experienced manager next time. I think LaRussa's stupid for not wanting to manage the Sox, as long as his health is good. What's he doing in retirement that's more fun than spending every day at the ballpark? I'd be fine with Scioscia actually. It's a bit off topic but I think the Cubs are about to make some news by firing Sveum and getting Girardi to manage the Cubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 07:22 AM) I'd be fine with Scioscia actually. It's a bit off topic but I think the Cubs are about to make some news by firing Sveum and getting Girardi to manage the Cubs. Why would Girardi leave the ultimate managing job in baseball to work for a perennial loser? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 09:16 AM) Why would Girardi leave the ultimate managing job in baseball to work for a perennial loser? Isn't his contract up? The Yankees may be at the "go another direction" point. For all I know they might be wanting to throw money at Scioscia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 08:21 AM) Isn't his contract up? The Yankees may be at the "go another direction" point. For all I know they might be wanting to throw money at Scioscia. Yes it does. Frankly though, letting go of Girardi would be a silly move for them, as he has been a great manager. I know I don't put much stock into managerial effect on teams, but given all the injuries and drama surrounding that team, it's a damn near miracle that team is above .500 at all given the strength of that division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 12:09 AM) FYI Franconas winning percentage before coming to Boston was .438, he had 2 90 loss teams in 4 years....He then took over a team who won 90 games 2 years in a row....I think you're overrating Francona here. And he also managed one of the biggest collapses in MLB history. Scioscia hasn't made the playoffs in 4 straight seasons with plenty of talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 12:09 AM) FYI Franconas winning percentage before coming to Boston was .438, he had 2 90 loss teams in 4 years....He then took over a team who won 90 games 2 years in a row....I think you're overrating Francona here. Look at Joe Torre pre-Yankees. Did Ron Gardenhire forget how to manage these last couple of years? Being a manager is more than your W/L record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 (edited) Lou Piniella was known as a great manager before he came to the Cubs. Leo Mazzone was known as a great pitching coach, then he went to Baltimore and then couldn't find a job. Rudy Jaramillo was the hitting guru. I remember reading on this very board that he was such a genius, the Sox needed to hire his "assistant". He then went to the Cubs, and is now unemployed, at least at the major league level. People pin way too much of the results on coaches and managers. They can make a difference, but not a 20-30 game difference. People think Ventura needs to go, yet they also say all these players need to go. If the Sox lost because of the manager, shouldn't they keep the players? If the players are bad, how do you blame the losing on the manager? No manager wins with bad players. No coaches make Cy Young award winners or MVP candidates out of bad players. Edited September 25, 2013 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 10:37 AM) Lou Piniella was known as a great manager before he came to the Cubs. Leo Mazzone was known as a great pitching coach, then he went to Baltimore and then couldn't find a job. Rudy Jaramillo was the hitting guru. I remember reading on this very board that he was such a genius, the Sox needed to hire his "assistant". He then went to the Cubs, and is now unemployed, at least at the major league level. People pin way too much of the results on coaches and managers. They can make a difference, but not a 20-30 game difference. People think Ventura needs to go, yet they also say all these players need to go. If the Sox lost because of the manager, shouldn't they keep the players? If the players are bad, how do you blame the losing on the manager? No manager wins with bad players. No coaches make Cy Young award winners or MVP candidates out of bad players. Why can't we blame both the players and the manager? Why do we have to single out just one party? I've never understood this logic. Clearly when you go from almost making the playoffs to losing nearly 100 games a lot of things went wrong. Let's assign blame to all responsible parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Arte Moreno is crazy with his checkbook, but is he really crazy enough to pay Scioscia to go away after this season? IIRC he has like 15+mil left on his contract through 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 10:46 AM) Why can't we blame both the players and the manager? Why do we have to single out just one party? I've never understood this logic. Clearly when you go from almost making the playoffs to losing nearly 100 games a lot of things went wrong. Let's assign blame to all responsible parties. I agree, but clearly Ventura has some "talent" as a manager. This was the best fielding team and an overall good team just last year. If you make a knee-jerk reaction and trade or get rid of anybody that has a bad year, you are bound to be a bad team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Also, the answer is quite obviously getting rid of Adam Dunn. If they did just that and made no other moves, they'd win 108 games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 10:51 AM) Also, the answer is quite obviously getting rid of Adam Dunn. If they did just that and made no other moves, they'd win 108 games There will always be a punching bag, even if the team wins 100 games. Before he went on an historic role, in 2005 Soxtalk wanted Contreras traded in a package for AJ Burnett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 11:01 AM) There will always be a punching bag, even if the team wins 100 games. Before he went on an historic role, in 2005 Soxtalk wanted Contreras traded in a package for AJ Burnett. I genuinely do not believe anybody that says they liked Timo Perez. He had some epic moments (and that is not a word I use lightly), but he sucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 11:37 AM) People pin way too much of the results on coaches and managers. They can make a difference, but not a 20-30 game difference. People think Ventura needs to go, yet they also say all these players need to go. If the Sox lost because of the manager, shouldn't they keep the players? If the players are bad, how do you blame the losing on the manager? I would absolutely have agreed with you... Until I watched the 2012 White Sox follow up the 2011 White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 11:17 AM) I genuinely do not believe anybody that says they liked Timo Perez. He had some epic moments (and that is not a word I use lightly), but he sucked. I loved Timo. You're a poopy head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 12:13 PM) I loved Timo. You're a poopy head. You loved CMON TIMO and his 3 run single. You hated everything else. You cannot deny this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 11:13 AM) I loved Timo. You're a poopy head. Loved Craig Grebeck, Paco Martin, Warren The Deacon Newson (or was it Newsom?), Pablo Ozuna (the infamous safe while flying across 1B sign memories) and even Rodney McCray a lot more, haha. Even Willie Harris, for Greg's 2005 reasoning (just for his commentary about Brandon Backe during the World Series highlights video and his play by play from the dugout). Only one less loved was probably Esteban Beltre. Maybe Andy Gonzalez a close 2nd. Honestly, I see Balta's never-ending point about this season (and I agree, despite having ignored much of the 2nd half intentionally)...and also Dick Allen's. The truth has to be somewhere in between. Is it fair to give up on Ventura if we have another 60-65 win team next year? For whatever reason, and I'm with Fathom on this one, I simply don't think he's that great of a manager and we haven't seen a lot of signs of his evolution. I think down the stretch last year, he actually got worse....of course, it's easier to say "we choked" or "ran out of gas" than to blame the manager, but I'd argue he didn't help us much in the 2nd half of the season as the "Ozzie Effect" wore off and reality set in. I always liked Ventura as a player, but I'm not sure he's the right man for the job, futuristically-speaking. Do I blame him? 30-35-40% maybe. Do I blame KW.....well, that's a big 90% or more. And yet it's hard to lay 2011-12-13 side-by-side-by-side and not wonder how much of it was simply a factor of ANYONE NOT NAMED OZZIE in the dugout....and you wonder how many managers could have held off the Tigers down the stretch. It's easy to play this theoretical or hypothetical game, where greg would have LaRussa/Francona/Scioscia etc., leading us to the playoffs. I guess we all expected last year to be more like we ended up with this year....and for this year to be more like 2012 as the team and manager evolved under a new coaching regime. You wonder if his best managerial year will always be 2012 and it will be all downhill from his peak like it was with Ozzie past 2005. Sad to think Ventura might already have peaked as a manager, but something has gone terribly awry in the entire organization this year, from the minor leagues on up (or down). (And it's nice to see Viciedo and Garcia ending up as positives as the season winds down.) F--- the Indians! At least we screwed them over in 2005 with the Riske/Crede match-up and down the stretch as we mowed them down with scrubs three in a row. Edited September 25, 2013 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 11:26 AM) You loved CMON TIMO and his 3 run single. You hated everything else. You cannot deny this Was that the one off K-Rod? He has to have more than one highlight with the Sox. Even Orlando Hudson had a couple. Edited September 25, 2013 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 12:55 PM) Was that the one off K-Rod? He has to have more than one highlight with the Sox. Even Orlando Hudson had a couple. Yes. It was heading for the gap and Vlad cut it off well, but he bobbled it a little as Timo was retreating to 1B and he didn't have enough time to get a hustle double. I'm sure there were other memories of him too, those are just the two that stick out in my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.