2013 White Sox Grades

[thxfrthmmrs]

Because the pitching staff has been pretty damn good this year?

 

No one is talking about one group of player here. We are on pace to lose 100 games and have the 5th worst run differential in the league, something's got to give.

 

The pitching was definitely the stronger area this year, but like I said, Peavy and Crain missed too much time to be that high. There is no way Thornton should be higher than a C and Donnie Veal gets better than a D. Guys like Kepp, Konerko, Axe, and Floyd should all get an F, and Danks would be a D in my book as well.

 

 

[Rowand44]

Keppinger certainly deserves an F. Axelrod I would say does not, he was a serviceable starter for about 2 months this year and for that I'd rate him a tad over failing.

[witesoxfan]

No one is talking about one group of player here. We are on pace to lose 100 games and have the 5th worst run differential in the league, something's got to give.

 

The pitching was definitely the stronger area this year, but like I said, Peavy and Crain missed too much time to be that high. There is no way Thornton should be higher than a C and Donnie Veal gets better than a D. Guys like Kepp, Konerko, Axe, and Floyd should all get an F, and Danks would be a D in my book as well.

 

He had one offensive player with a grade over a C and that was Ramirez. Everyone on the offensive side was "average" or worse.

 

 

[ILMOU]

The consensus averages here look to be pretty accurate. Keppinger, in any universe, has to be an F, or F- if that's possible.

 

Axe really shouldn't be in MLB, but yeah, he gets an F as well, along with Paulie.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Stan Bahnsen

[Dick Allen]

Because the pitching staff has been pretty damn good this year?

The pitching staff's performance was pretty average in the AL. Of course you could make a point the defense will make their overall numbers look not as good as they should have been, and it would be hard to argue, and they dumped Thornton, Peavy and Crain, but they are pretty much in the middle of the pack in most of the big categories.

 

The other parts of the team performed so poorly, even an average-like performance seems spectacular.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Dick Allen

[LittleHurt05]

Jesus Christ, are people still using wins as a measurement in 2013?

 

On one hand people say Sale deserves Cy Young recognition even though he's below .500, on the other Axe gets a pass for earning a whopping 4 wins as a minor league level pitcher. Sounds like double standard to me.

 

Axe definitely gets an F in my books. He has just been god awful since May, with an ERA over 7. His overall ERA and FIP is also in the mid 5, which won't cut it at any level. Let's just say that I don't think the Sox expect opponent to hit over .300 against him.

 

Also, Fathom's grades are WAY too generous. How can a 100 loss team has more A's and B's than D's and F's? How can Crain and Peavy's contribution to the team be graded as A and B, respectively, when they both missed significant time?

 

You are taking my four wins comment too literally. Axelrod has no place on a MLB roster, yet a few times as a starter he put the Sox in a position to win the game. Considering his talent level, that's great. So I give him a D for overachieving. The front office gets an F for rostering him all year.

[Chicago White Sox]

The pitching staff's performance was pretty average in the AL. Of course you could make a point the defense will make their overall numbers look not as good as they should have been, and it would be hard to argue, and they dumped Thornton, Peavy and Crain, but they are pretty much in the middle of the pack in most of the big categories.

 

The other parts of the team performed so poorly, even an average-like performance seems spectacular.

What are you basing this on? If you're looking at something like runs allowed, then even an average ranking would be incredible given we play half of our games at the Cell. The Sox's staff has definitely better than average this year.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I'm gonna bust out some elaborate grades to help me kill some time. Gonna give every starter a numeric grade by month, F-1, D-2, C-3, B-4, A-5, then average them out to get my grade.

 

Dayan- D- (2.67, made him a minus for his D)

Beckham- D+ (2.8, people forget that he was a .300 hitter the first 3 months)

De Aza- D (2.8, see Tank grade)

Dunn- C- (3.1)

Flowers- F (1.1)

Garcia- 8 (4.5)

Gillaspie D- (2)

Kepp- D (2.3 He actually had 3 "good" months)

Konerko- F (1.5)

Phegley- F (1.3)

Ramirez- C (3)

 

Axelrod- F (1.5)

Danks- D (1.6, upped his grade because he's coming off an injury)

Quintana- C+ (3.8, a "bad" June kept him from a B)

Sale- B+ (4.8...pretty much impossible to get an A in this scale)

Santiago- C (3.5)

Rienzo- C- (2, didn't count his start in July so I'll up him a grade for that, and the fact that he's a rookie)

 

Jones- D (2.5)

Reed- C (3.1)

 

 

[Dick Allen]

What are you basing this on? If you're looking at something like runs allowed, then even an average ranking would be incredible given we play half of our games at the Cell. The Sox's staff has definitely better than average this year.

Runs, walks, strikeouts, hits allowed, ERA. They are all around average. Also, White Sox pitchers historically have pitched better at home than on the road, so I kind of blow off park factor.

[Balta1701]

Runs, walks, strikeouts, hits allowed, ERA. They are all around average. Also, White Sox pitchers historically have pitched better at home than on the road, so I kind of blow off park factor.

They're 6th in MLB in fWAR out of their pitchers however. Considering that they traded away 2 relievers and a starter on top of that, that's still pretty good.

 

They're 8th in MLB in ERA+.

[witesoxfan]

The pitching staff's performance was pretty average in the AL. Of course you could make a point the defense will make their overall numbers look not as good as they should have been, and it would be hard to argue, and they dumped Thornton, Peavy and Crain, but they are pretty much in the middle of the pack in most of the big categories.

 

The other parts of the team performed so poorly, even an average-like performance seems spectacular.

 

That is including Dylan Axelrod and his 5.68 ERA over 128 innings as well as a few other guys who were absolutely terrible in their time up. They will not be in the team's long term plans.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

That is including Dylan Axelrod and his 5.68 ERA over 128 innings as well as a few other guys who were absolutely terrible in their time up. They will not be in the team's long term plans.

No, but other bad pitchers will be with the team every year. It's almost impossible to avoid.

[BigEdWalsh]

I'm gonna bust out some elaborate grades to help me kill some time. Gonna give every starter a numeric grade by month, F-1, D-2, C-3, B-4, A-5, then average them out to get my grade.

 

Dayan- D- (2.67, made him a minus for his D)

Beckham- D+ (2.8, people forget that he was a .300 hitter the first 3 months)

De Aza- D (2.8, see Tank grade)

Dunn- C- (3.1)

Flowers- F (1.1)

Garcia- 8 (4.5)

Gillaspie D- (2)

Kepp- D (2.3 He actually had 3 "good" months)

Konerko- F (1.5)

Phegley- F (1.3)

Ramirez- C (3)

 

Axelrod- F (1.5)

Danks- D (1.6, upped his grade because he's coming off an injury)

Quintana- C+ (3.8, a "bad" June kept him from a B)

Sale- B+ (4.8...pretty much impossible to get an A in this scale)

Santiago- C (3.5)

Rienzo- C- (2, didn't count his start in July so I'll up him a grade for that, and the fact that he's a rookie)

 

Jones- D (2.5)

Reed- C (3.1)

I like how you came up with the grades and as far as Keppinger goes, that's exactly what I was talking about. Because of those months where he hit .300 or better, he does not deserve an F. I think too many here on Soxtalk are blinded by their hatred for him.

[Eminor3rd]

I like how you came up with the grades and as far as Keppinger goes, that's exactly what I was talking about. Because of those months where he hit .300 or better, he does not deserve an F. I think too many here on Soxtalk are blinded by their hatred for him.

 

I'm blinded by his stat line: .253/.283/.317, 59 wRC+, -4.9 defensive runs, -3.7 UBR, -1.6 fWAR. I mean, holy s***.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Eminor3rd

[southsider2k5]

Runs, walks, strikeouts, hits allowed, ERA. They are all around average. Also, White Sox pitchers historically have pitched better at home than on the road, so I kind of blow off park factor.

 

I will say one thing for you. You are contrarian's contrarian. Take one exception to the rule and the rule doesn't count apparently.

[witesoxfan]

No, but other bad pitchers will be with the team every year. It's almost impossible to avoid.

 

I will let you believe that a rotation featuring Chris Sale, Hector Santiago, Jose Quintana, John Danks, and Erik Johnson is average. This is a petty argument.

[Eminor3rd]

I will let you believe that a rotation featuring Chris Sale, Hector Santiago, Jose Quintana, John Danks, and Erik Johnson is average. This is a petty argument.

 

It's above average, but let's be honest, it's not THAT far above average. Sale is elite, QUintana is very good, Santiago is solid, Johnson will probably be solid, and Danks is a disaster that may never recover. A lot of what makes the rotation valuable is the upside of Johnson and Santiago, which is real, but who knows when it will show up. Danks is far from a sure thing at this point.

[The Ginger Kid]

Danks is a disaster that may never recover.

I think he's come a long way since ST and the shoulder surgery. I also think he'll be even better next year.

[witesoxfan]

It's above average, but let's be honest, it's not THAT far above average. Sale is elite, QUintana is very good, Santiago is solid, Johnson will probably be solid, and Danks is a disaster that may never recover. A lot of what makes the rotation valuable is the upside of Johnson and Santiago, which is real, but who knows when it will show up. Danks is far from a sure thing at this point.

 

There are definitely rotations I'd take above the Sox - off hand, Texas, Oakland, and Detroit come to mind, with Boston and Tampa right around there - but it's a good foundation. I think Danks can be a 4.00 ERA guy again, but it's been a while since he threw this many innings.

[Marty34]

Runs, walks, strikeouts, hits allowed, ERA. They are all around average. Also, White Sox pitchers historically have pitched better at home than on the road, so I kind of blow off park factor.

 

Roger Bossard doesn't get enough credit for his ability to tailor a mound as he should.

[Eminor3rd]

There are definitely rotations I'd take above the Sox - off hand, Texas, Oakland, and Detroit come to mind, with Boston and Tampa right around there - but it's a good foundation. I think Danks can be a 4.00 ERA guy again, but it's been a while since he threw this many innings.

 

I agree with you on all that. I think Dick Allen is making a strong contrary case because we (all of us) have had to hang our hats on the quality of the rotation as the bright spot long enough that we are perhaps overrating it a bit.

[BigEdWalsh]

I'm blinded by his stat line: .253/.283/.317, 59 wRC+, -4.9 defensive runs, -3.7 UBR, -1.6 fWAR. I mean, holy s***.

BAD to be sure but all the same a guy who in two and a half months time hits .300 is doing SOMETHING right, therefore not deserving of an F. He had an absolutely horrendous start and I think his overall stats which you quoted are a wee bit clouded. Still, I agree he was bad. At the seasons start I hoped for a B or C type season from him not a D or an F.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I'm blinded by his stat line: .253/.283/.317, 59 wRC+, -4.9 defensive runs, -3.7 UBR, -1.6 fWAR. I mean, holy s***.

 

I think he deserves SOME credit for his June and August numbers.

 

June- .317/.388/.400

August- .316/.359/.474

 

Even if you wanna throw out his September (.307/.350/.417) due to only having 36 Abs.

 

The fact that he's played mostly 1B/3B/DH does put a damper on those numbers(namely the slugging%) but overall I'm fine giving him the D grade..Though I won't really argue with anyone giving him an F.

Edited September 26, 2013 by scs787

[witesoxfan]

I agree with you on all that. I think Dick Allen is making a strong contrary case because we (all of us) have had to hang our hats on the quality of the rotation as the bright spot long enough that we are perhaps overrating it a bit.

 

I think the idea that a team ERA of 3.99 can be 8th in the league screws with people a bit too. In our minds we still believe that to be good when in reality a league average pitcher is putting up a 4.00 ERA anymore.

[southsider2k5]

I think he's come a long way since ST and the shoulder surgery. I also think he'll be even better next year.

 

I think he will be much more like the old Danks next year. It is first year back and there isn't enough difference between his change and fastball. That difference should open back up even more next year as he gets back to more like 92-93 vs 89-90 for an average speed.