NorthSideSox72 Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 02:43 PM) I don't think building a team through free agency is the way to go, SS2K5. No one is suggesting that. Drop the straw man. Acquiring free agents will need to be PART of the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 02:43 PM) I don't think building a team through free agency is the way to go, SS2K5. I don't think building a team by buying someone else's failed free agents is the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 02:46 PM) I don't think building a team by buying someone else's failed free agents is the way to go. Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 02:32 PM) No I want one more young hitter in addition to the possibility of Abreau. That could be Viciedo or Semien too. Maybe it's Mat Gamel. Rather than attempting to acquire prospects for $30 mill, I think the Sox just need to take more chances on waivers and on failed prospects in general (as well as young prospects who haven't reached the majors). For every Matt LaPorta, Dallas McPherson, and Joe Borchard you get the occasional Jayson Werth or Chris Davis. Travis Snider is a guy I think the Sox could acquire for cheap who absolutely destroyed minor league pitching but hasn't done anything in the majors. Find the next Carlos Quentin. There are guys out there that can be had for cheaper. I don't think putting all of your eggs in one basket is the right idea. I think you narrow your search down to about 10 guys you feel can be impact bats at the MLB level and then you do what you can to acquire them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 02:51 PM) That could be Viciedo or Semien too. Maybe it's Mat Gamel. Rather than attempting to acquire prospects for $30 mill, I think the Sox just need to take more chances on waivers and on failed prospects in general (as well as young prospects who haven't reached the majors). For every Matt LaPorta, Dallas McPherson, and Joe Borchard you get the occasional Jayson Werth or Chris Davis. Travis Snider is a guy I think the Sox could acquire for cheap who absolutely destroyed minor league pitching but hasn't done anything in the majors. Find the next Carlos Quentin. There are guys out there that can be had for cheaper. I don't think putting all of your eggs in one basket is the right idea. I think you narrow your search down to about 10 guys you feel can be impact bats at the MLB level and then you do what you can to acquire them. Which based on anecdotal evidence so far, is exactly what Rick Hahn is doing now. He is targeting specific guys who he believes can help the team now and in the future. Avi Garcia is example #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 02:56 PM) Which based on anecdotal evidence so far, is exactly what Rick Hahn is doing now. He is targeting specific guys who he believes can help the team now and in the future. Avi Garcia is example #1. I agree, and taking chances on raw talent like Brandon Jacobs in a deal for a guy they were never going to resign is a great move too. Really, in almost the same situation with the teams reversed last year, the White Sox got Kevin Youkilis for Zach Stewart and Brent Lillibridge with the Red Sox eating most of the salary. Those two didn't even make it to the end of the season with the Red Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 03:20 PM) I agree. Look at the A's with Donaldson, Moss and to a lesser extent Jed Lowrie. If you move down the division, you see a guy in David Murphy who has been on the Rangers roster forever - he was acquired in a deal for Eric Gagne, who had signed a 1 year deal with the Rangers. And they gave Marlon Byrd a chance after it seemed like his career was done, and he's been a pretty damn good player and had a great resurgent year. Guys figure it out and get lost all the time. Stockpiling talent is the best way to combat guys who simply lose it. BTW, Brett Anderson is only going to be 26 next year. He is worth a flyer if he wants to sign. Maybe he can be a lefty reliever. Edited October 2, 2013 by witesoxfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 02:51 PM) That could be Viciedo or Semien too. Maybe it's Mat Gamel. Rather than attempting to acquire prospects for $30 mill, I think the Sox just need to take more chances on waivers and on failed prospects in general (as well as young prospects who haven't reached the majors). For every Matt LaPorta, Dallas McPherson, and Joe Borchard you get the occasional Jayson Werth or Chris Davis. Travis Snider is a guy I think the Sox could acquire for cheap who absolutely destroyed minor league pitching but hasn't done anything in the majors. Find the next Carlos Quentin. There are guys out there that can be had for cheaper. I don't think putting all of your eggs in one basket is the right idea. I think you narrow your search down to about 10 guys you feel can be impact bats at the MLB level and then you do what you can to acquire them. They should be getting these guys in addition to trying to get another top young hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 03:42 PM) They should be getting these guys in addition to trying to get another top young hitter. Of course they should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 03:42 PM) They should be getting these guys in addition to trying to get another top young hitter. Yes, but the point is, you don't have to take on $30 million in bad contracts for a shot at it. You can find these guys by signing players to 1 year deals and shipping them off if/when out of contention, claiming guys off waivers, signing minor league free agents, and making miscellaneous trades otherwise. About the only other way you are going to get that kind of young bat right now is by trading a pitcher, and while I'm OK with that, the organization has to be 100% sure it's the right guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 03:51 PM) Yes, but the point is, you don't have to take on $30 million in bad contracts for a shot at it. You can find these guys by signing players to 1 year deals and shipping them off if/when out of contention, claiming guys off waivers, signing minor league free agents, and making miscellaneous trades otherwise. About the only other way you are going to get that kind of young bat right now is by trading a pitcher, and while I'm OK with that, the organization has to be 100% sure it's the right guy. If they are offered the right prospect why not, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 03:57 PM) If they are offered the right prospect why not, right? Because that prospect doesn't exist. Right now that prospect would have to be Byron Buxton, Taijuan Walker, or Miguel Sano - someone in that class - and teams simply will not give up prospects of that caliber for mere payroll flexibility. Any prospects of lesser quality are not worth the inherent risk and can likely be acquired for other assets. It's not reasonable Marty. Get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 03:57 PM) If they are offered the right prospect why not, right? But who would offer a prospect to the White Sox for taking on a bad contract anyway? Let alone the ype of guy that would make this worthwhile -- we're talking like Taillon or Buxton or some other untouchable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 04:05 PM) But who would offer a prospect to the White Sox for taking on a bad contract anyway? Let alone the ype of guy that would make this worthwhile -- we're talking like Taillon or Buxton or some other untouchable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 04:06 PM) lol we've been doing that a lot lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 04:05 PM) But who would offer a prospect to the White Sox for taking on a bad contract anyway? Let alone the ype of guy that would make this worthwhile -- we're talking like Taillon or Buxton or some other untouchable. Why is it that only an untouchable prospect would be worth $30M? You won't even be able to get Abreau for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 04:14 PM) Why is it that only an untouchable prospect would be worth $30M? You won't even be able to get Abreau for that. Abreu is 26, whoever pays up for him will be doing so because they see him as a Major Leaguer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 04:14 PM) Why is it that only an untouchable prospect would be worth $30M? You won't even be able to get Abreau for that. Because Abreu is a free agent. Teams are less willing to part with these players who can be elite because of what elite players can do for a franchise. Andrew McCutchen has been the focal point of the Pirates turn around. Buster Posey has been the best player on World Series winning teams. The effect players like that have on a team are monumental and teams just don't give them up. So, because Byron Buxton is already under contract with Minnesota, they aren't going to let him go for really anything. Dealing him for Trout doesn't make sense because he could be just as good as Trout but Trout is already that close to free agency and about to get very, very expensive. If he's not and he's only a .300/.370/.450 type hitter, then oh well, they made a mistake. I guarantee if Buxton or Sano or Taillon or Walker or Taveras were free agents right now, they'd sign contracts in the $30-40 million range. Teams aren't going to give them up for that though when they are very cheap for at least the first 2 years and are paid below market value for the next 3-4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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