One move...

[Soxfest]

What if the Sox signed Abreu and McCann and traded Santiago and something for Lawrie. How would the team stack up at that point? As bad as this team seems, a couple of hitters, guys like Viciedo, Garcia and/or Beckham stepping up, and they are a pretty good team again.

Beckham is as good as he will ever be unfortunately. That ship has sailed.

[witesoxfan]

Holy f***, Viciedo and Beckham are NOT stepping up. They are awful baseball players.

 

Viciedo actually showed justifiable improvement in the second half. His power increased (Iso from .151 to .175), patience increased (BB rate from 4.8% to 5.4%), and control of the zone (K-Rate from 21.4% to 19.8%). He hit .291, compared to .246 in the first half. And, compared to last year, he swung at fewer pitches outside the zone (38.9% to 38.1%) and swung at more pitches in the zone (63.7% to 72.2%). He is still young and talented enough to actually become a productive member of a baseball team.

 

I could care less what they do with Beckham though. I think it's time to give Semien an opportunity there.

[GoGoSox2k2]

What if the Sox signed Abreu and McCann and traded Santiago and something for Lawrie. How would the team stack up at that point? As bad as this team seems, a couple of hitters, guys like Viciedo, Garcia and/or Beckham stepping up, and they are a pretty good team again.

 

 

that would be my dream scenario. along with moving ramirez alexei.

 

 

A line up something like below would give us a nice resemblance of some youth and hope I think

 

CF - De Aza

3B - Lawrie

RF - Garcia

C - McCann

DH - Dunn

LF - Tank

1B - Abreu

SS - Semien

2B - Beckham

[GGajewski18]

What if the Sox signed Abreu and McCann and traded Santiago and something for Lawrie. How would the team stack up at that point? As bad as this team seems, a couple of hitters, guys like Viciedo, Garcia and/or Beckham stepping up, and they are a pretty good team again.

 

Completely agree with this. Although I see Viciedo improving with the right hitting coach the most. He's still only 23 and has raw talent is still there.

 

Yes I know the power numbers weren't there, and doesn't walk often but he still hit 266. Next year if he can hit 265 with 25 HRs and 80 RBIs that would be great. And I could see Sox trading Beckham so Semein could start at 2B.

[GGajewski18]

Viciedo actually showed justifiable improvement in the second half. His power increased (Iso from .151 to .175), patience increased (BB rate from 4.8% to 5.4%), and control of the zone (K-Rate from 21.4% to 19.8%). He hit .291, compared to .246 in the first half. And, compared to last year, he swung at fewer pitches outside the zone (38.9% to 38.1%) and swung at more pitches in the zone (63.7% to 72.2%). He is still young and talented enough to actually become a productive member of a baseball team.

 

I could care less what they do with Beckham though. I think it's time to give Semien an opportunity there.

 

We basically just said the same thing. You just gave stats and I completely agree

[Buehrle>Wood]

Trading Santiago weakens your pitching staff to the point where it is no longer a strength. It doesn't make sense. You'd have Sale, Q and then a bunch of guys who may or may not be able to stick in a MLB rotation. Not to mention it kills depth which everyone watching this year should know you need. We lost 60% of our opening day rotation this season. Floyd and Peavy to injury (then Peavy traded) and Axelrod to ineffectiveness. No one should ever go into a season with just two known quantities in the rotation and expect to compete.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Buehrle>Wood

[almagest]

Do you look at the numbers? Gillaspie more than held his own against right handed pitching and actually provided positive value this year, albeit a small amount. The White Sox got negative overall production out of 1B, and Konerko was among the worst players in the majors.

 

1B is by far the biggest hole on this team. Yes, 3B can be upgraded upon, as can a lot of positions, but if you get someone in who provides value of 3.0 WAR at 1B and you limit Dunn's ABs against LHP pitching, you are already talking about adding 6 wins to the team.

 

Personally, I think the position Semien needs to play this year is 2B. I'm done with Beckham.

Holy crap Gillaspie was BAD against LHP - .159/.197/.254/.451. RHP was significantly better - .261/.324/.414/.738. Not great, but acceptable if Keppinger/Semien can provide ~ the same output against LHP. Probably Semien, as Keppinger couldn't hit from either side of the plate last year.

 

Those numbers against LHP were in only 66 PAs, though, so it seems like Ventura knew not to expect much from him.

[GGajewski18]

Trading Santiago weakens your pitching staff to the point where it is no longer a strength. It doesn't make sense. You'd have Sale, Q and then a bunch of guys who may or may not be able to stick in a MLB rotation. Not to mention it kills depth which everyone watching this year should know you need. We lost 60% of our opening day rotation this season. Floyd and Peavy to injury (then Peavy traded) and Axelrod to ineffectiveness. No one should ever go into a season with just two known quantities in the rotation and expect to compete.

 

Danks will be the #3 then and Johnson all but put himself into the rotation for next year. I could see the Sox signing someone like a Josh Johnson or a Tommy Hanson.

 

If they do trade Santiago, I could see the Sox going pitcher with the #3 pick to add depth

[Eminor3rd]

Trading Santiago weakens your pitching staff to the point where it is no longer a strength. It doesn't make sense. You'd have Sale, Q and then a bunch of guys who may or may not be able to stick in a MLB rotation. Not to mention it kills depth which everyone watching this year should know you need. We lost 60% of our opening day rotation this season. Floyd and Peavy to injury (then Peavy traded) and Axelrod to ineffectiveness. No one should ever go into a season with just two known quantities in the rotation and expect to compete.

 

Trading Peavy did that -- I'm not sure that Santiago is that big of a deal. He had a nice ERA, but his peripherals suggest he's more of a 4.25 ERA guy, and if that's what we have to move to upgrade somewhere else, we shouldn't hesitate.

 

Another way to look at it -- the pitching was a strength all year, and we lost 100 games. I'll take a more average staff if it means not having a league worst-esque offense and defense.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Holy crap Gillaspie was BAD against LHP - .159/.197/.254/.451. RHP was significantly better - .261/.324/.414/.738. Not great, but acceptable if Keppinger/Semien can provide ~ the same output against LHP. Probably Semien, as Keppinger couldn't hit from either side of the plate last year.

 

Those numbers against LHP were in only 66 PAs, though, so it seems like Ventura knew not to expect much from him.

If Keppinger could hit again in a true platoon, third base wouldn't be a problem

[Dick Allen]

Trading Peavy did that -- I'm not sure that Santiago is that big of a deal. He had a nice ERA, but his peripherals suggest he's more of a 4.25 ERA guy, and if that's what we have to move to upgrade somewhere else, we shouldn't hesitate.

 

Another way to look at it -- the pitching was a strength all year, and we lost 100 games. I'll take a more average staff if it means not having a league worst-esque offense and defense.

I really don't think the White Sox think Santiago is that big of a deal. No inside knowledge, just putting 2 and 2 together.

[southsider2k5]

Trading Santiago weakens your pitching staff to the point where it is no longer a strength. It doesn't make sense. You'd have Sale, Q and then a bunch of guys who may or may not be able to stick in a MLB rotation. Not to mention it kills depth which everyone watching this year should know you need. We lost 60% of our opening day rotation this season. Floyd and Peavy to injury (then Peavy traded) and Axelrod to ineffectiveness. No one should ever go into a season with just two known quantities in the rotation and expect to compete.

 

Santiago has so much work to do to realize his potential, I'm just not sure if it is possible or not. He can be such a bullpen destroyer at times. About 1 in 3 of his starts he threw 100 or more pitches without making it 6 full innings. In about 1 in 4 of his starts he didn't make it into the sixth inning, including starts of 2.1, 3.1, 3.2, and 4.0 IP. And it isn't like the Sox are skewing those numbers by holding his pitch counts down or anything. In only 5 of his starts did he not make it to 100 pitches, two of which happened at the end of the year when they were capping his work.

 

A lot of the periphs point to a guy who got lucky to put up his numbers this year. We'll see I suppose.

[Balta1701]

We can probably forget about the Sox signing high-profile free agents, including Abreu. The Sox are going to have to make smart trades, smaller free agent signings, and gasp, actually draft and develop some position players. Garcia and Semien look to be a good start at rebuilding the offense, but this is probably going to take a few years to get back to contention.

If the white sox don't sign any high profile free agents then were talking about going into next season with a payroll of $60 million or less. Even if you factor in the higher draft slot spending that's a 40% payroll cut. That's borderline embarrassing on its own even before you think about the extra tv dollars.

[southsider2k5]

If the white sox don't sign any high profile free agents then were talking about going into next season with a payroll of $60 million or less. Even if you factor in the higher draft slot spending that's a 40% payroll cut. That's borderline embarrassing on its own even before you think about the extra tv dollars.

 

A good chunk of revenue was also gone this year. Lower ticket prices, lower attendance, and you can bet there will be fewer local advertising dollars as ratings plunged too.

[greg775]

Beckham is as good as he will ever be unfortunately. That ship has sailed.

 

Yes, I think the ship has sailed on Beckham, Viciedo and DeAza. Replace all 3 please. Beckham is as bad as Getz IMO. Five home runs? What a head case. Seemed like Gordon had talent, but he and his many different batting stances are done.

[Balta1701]

Trading Santiago weakens your pitching staff to the point where it is no longer a strength. It doesn't make sense. You'd have Sale, Q and then a bunch of guys who may or may not be able to stick in a MLB rotation. Not to mention it kills depth which everyone watching this year should know you need. We lost 60% of our opening day rotation this season. Floyd and Peavy to injury (then Peavy traded) and Axelrod to ineffectiveness. No one should ever go into a season with just two known quantities in the rotation and expect to compete.

Saying te pitching would no longer be a strength after a trade is just wrong. They're not highly touted but Bassitt and Snodgress will be starting off at Charlotte next year and both could be legit major league contributors. And if that's not good enough, Beck is on the same path EJ was on this year and we should definitely expect him to be pušing Charlotte by the middle of next year. And that's on top of any signing they might do for depth like Floyd could be.

[Balta1701]

A good chunk of revenue was also gone this year. Lower ticket prices, lower attendance, and you can bet there will be fewer local advertising dollars as ratings plunged too.

And the Sox also saved money this year by dumping 3 contracts mid year.

[witesoxfan]

Yes, I think the ship has sailed on Beckham, Viciedo and DeAza. Replace all 3 please. Beckham is as bad as Getz IMO. Five home runs? What a head case. Seemed like Gordon had talent, but he and his many different batting stances are done.

 

Beckham is the only player I think the Sox should replace, and that's simply because they have a player that I believe is a better option. If they keep Beckham and Semien opens the year at SS or 3B or even in the minors, I wouldn't mind.

 

Oh, and Getz is one of the worst hitters in the major leagues. In 1546 career plate appearances at the MLB level, Getz has career splits of .251/.310/.309/.619 with 3 home runs. Seriously Greg, look at the f***ing numbers before you make ridiculous assertions like this.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I'm kinda surprised there isn't anyone giving Beckham the benefit of the doubt. I mean he was batting in the .320s before his wrist flared up in July.

 

I'm not saying I'm not down with replacing him with Semien I'm just surprised to see no one make this point. There's certainly a case to be made for Gordons return.

[Rowand44]

I'm kinda surprised there isn't anyone giving Beckham the benefit of the doubt. I mean he was batting in the .320s before his wrist flared up in July.

 

I'm not saying I'm not down with replacing him with Semien I'm just surprised to see no one make this point. There's certainly a case to be made for Gordons return.

I think we're all done giving Gordon the benefit of the doubt. He's been around for a good amount of time now and besides his initial season, he's been terrible at the plate.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Saying te pitching woAverage no longer be a strength after ahypothetical is just wrong. They're not highly touted but Bassitt and Snodgress will be starting off at Charlotte next year and both could be legit major league contributors. And if that's not good enough, Beck is on the same path EJ was on this year and we should definitely expect him to be pušing Charlotte by the middle of next year. And that's on top of any signing they might do for depth like Floyd could be.

If you are relying on those guys, then I'm likely right. The pitching is no longer a strength. Average at best. Yes, this is ignoring hypothetical signings.

[JoshPR]

Those were all good scenarios, and I enjoyed reading them keep it up guys!

 

I wouldn't be against McCann but I would hope he stayed healthy all year. If didn't have Dunn I would say let him catch and DH some so he doesn't get hurt. I agree on beckham and Viciedo just needs to realize he doesn't have to swing to break the seams off the ball, just stay quick and short and the ball will travel. But I really want a start over a change in philosophy from drafting and types of players they sign and draft get a certain attitude going, a brand whitesox baseball, that will eventually save money. I know 95% of the people here don't want that and that's cool, but I think in the long run it will keep us competitive for a long time. That said Lexi, Dunn, de aza, flowers don't fit the mould.

[JoshPR]

Sorry my grammar sucked on that last post...

[Eminor3rd]

I'm kinda surprised there isn't anyone giving Beckham the benefit of the doubt. I mean he was batting in the .320s before his wrist flared up in July.

 

I'm not saying I'm not down with replacing him with Semien I'm just surprised to see no one make this point. There's certainly a case to be made for Gordons return.

 

He's had 5 years. The guy is bound to have a hot month or two in there, but the trend is clear.

[spiderman]

Most obvious move ever is signing McCann

 

How old is McCain? How many years would be smart for a catcher? I'm hesitant to go crazy on a catcher, I'm more in the camp of signing somebody who can play defense.