One move...

[Soxfest]

Not even close -- he was a +3.5 runner by UBR (EDIT: which is a stat that factors everything, including taking extra bases on singles and the like), an above average figure that was third best on the team behind Ramirez and Rios. That includes 20 SB at 71% success rate, which is just above the line for positive value added in SB/CS.

How many times did De Aza get thrown out being stupid this year or doubled off a base. He is 30 years old and very replaceable.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Soxfest

[greg775]

Good, hopefully you don't post in the time period. Your boy PK is far more of the reason why this team racked up L after L after L. I mean really, your boy hit .210 with 6 HRs at home this year, whereas Dunn hit .222 with 21 bombs. I mean seriously, c'mon.

 

Lol @ another part of your post where you say you expect him to hit 30 HRs and drive in 90 like that's a bad thing.

 

Thanks for the support and kind words. Why the venom? Like Dick Allen pointed out, I was right on many occasions this year.

[GGajewski18]

I'd want to know how the lineup was going to work, I don't like giving up de Aza or Viciedo for nothing.

 

I would definitely trade De Aza before Tank but to who I don't know.

 

Line up:

CF Ellsbury

SS Alexei

C McCann

RF Garcia

DH Dunn

C Salty

1B Abrue

LF Viciedo

2B Beckham

[southsider2k5]

Not even close -- he was a +3.5 runner by UBR (EDIT: which is a stat that factors everything, including taking extra bases on singles and the like), an above average figure that was third best on the team behind Ramirez and Rios. That includes 20 SB at 71% success rate, which is just above the line for positive value added in SB/CS.

 

Any stat that has De Aza as a plus baserunner has to be flawed.

[southsider2k5]

How many times did De Aza get thrown out being stupid this year or doubled off a base. He is 30 years old and very replaceable.

 

As many bad CFs as we had over the years, I wouldn't call him "very replaceable". I would love to see him replaced, but I don't know with what or how.

[witesoxfan]

On a 99 loss team and WORST baserunner in the league. Goodbye ADA

 

I'm guessing you're just saying bye to him for the season because, barring the Sox getting good trade value for him, he's gonna be back next year.

 

Not even close -- he was a +3.5 runner by UBR (EDIT: which is a stat that factors everything, including taking extra bases on singles and the like), an above average figure that was third best on the team behind Ramirez and Rios. That includes 20 SB at 71% success rate, which is just above the line for positive value added in SB/CS.

 

Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument, come on man, everyone knows that. LOL

 

Beckham has it made because he's a former No. 1 draft pick, eighth overall. Sox PROBABLY will let him be mediocre a SIXTH straight season maybe even give him a 7th before finally dumping him. I mean there's probably a small chance he might emerge (it took Alex Gordon a while), but for sure Beckham gets a break cause the Sox made a big mistake in drafting him that high. Another overvalued college hitting star who couldn't adjust.

 

There is no logic in most of this. He's probably going to get a 6th chance because the Sox drafted him high and no high draft pick has ever flamed out and he might come through but he probably won't so let's give him just one more because it's not like they have anyone better to go to even though they do.

 

I'd give Beckham a 10% chance at coming back, and that's only because he's a good clubhouse presence and seems to be in the good graces of a few fans.

 

Yes and Dunn is a big reason we lose games. He stunk to begin the season again as we lost game after game. He is buzzkill. What'd he wind up with, 33 homers? That's like Babe Ruth on our pathetic team, but I agree with those who say he's just buzzkill, a bad influence with his horrific batting style of trying to pull everything that he happens to make contact with. No reason to discuss it ... no team will take Dunn off the Sox hands so one more year of the big fella. I'd expect .210, zillions of strikeouts, 30-36 homers, 90 ribbies.

 

KONERKO WAS THE BIGGEST REASON THE WHITE SOX LOST GAMES THIS YEAR. Forget your agenda about Dunn, look at things objectively and you will see that the two biggest reasons the White Sox lost games this year was because of Paul Konerko and Jeff Keppinger. Adam Dunn is so far down that list that it's not even worth having this debate, yet White Sox fans need some sort of scape goat and "no way could it be Paully, he hit that home run in the World Series almost 10 f'ing years ago, he can play every year for as long as he wants and he'll never be at fault for anything!"

 

This isn't a beer league softball team, we have statistics that indicate who are the worst players in the league, and Paul Konerko was one of the worst players in the league. Adam Dunn is no where close to the bottom of that list. He's just incredibly out of place at 1B.

 

I am a Dunn hater, that is true. But to be fair to us Dunn haters, when we see Dunn we see the letter L - he's played on Sox teams that have suffered L after L after L the last full season and last month of the previous season. Again, he's going nowhere so I better plan on canceling my MLB subscription before it renews itself. I can renew it the following year when he's gone.

 

So you just admitted that you're incredibly biased. And that you remember history wrong, because this team was a monstrosity of a collapse away from going to the playoffs last year - and that was on EVERYBODY, though I'm sure you believe it just to be Dunn. Dunn was one of the few productive hitters on this year's team, yet you fail to see that and only see that they lost, even though Dunn did everything in his power to help the team win. There were about 20 other players on this team deserving of blame, but you are placing it on Dunn because "you see L after L" when in reality that's on Konerko and Keppinger and Axelrod and Beckham and Viciedo just as much if not more so than Dunn.

 

The worst thing is that I really don't even like Dunn that much any more. He's a platoon player at this point and should never play against lefties again. But, if this team has any shot to win next year, they absolutely need Dunn somewhere in the middle of the lineup 3-6...preferably 6, but he needs to be there. If/when they let him go after next season, cool, whatever, that's fine. If they have him there, and they lose next year, then I bet it's not because Adam Dunn "struck out and TOOK R JERBS" but instead because it's not a very good team. That's an incredibly provocative thought, isn't it?

[GGajewski18]

No 3B and no way we sign the top two catchers on the market.

 

Yeah my bad. I forgot. No McCann and it would be Gillaspie but not in the 3 spot

[knightni]

Trade John Danks for a better 3B.

[Balta1701]

Trade John Danks for a better 3B.

Can you give a name that makes sense for both sides?

 

Danks is about the one guy on the roster I'd actually trade for Headley but no idea why the Pads would take that on

[elrockinMT]

I think the Sox plans for 3B in 2014 is a platoon of Gillaspie and Semien. Not sure how that will play out though. So if the team thinks 3B is covered I think 1B needs to be dealt with. I want PK back but I am not sure if that will happen or not. I might also go for a real closer

[Balta1701]

My crazy sounding 3b move is Gillaspie and Santiago for Lawrie.

 

But I sincerely doubt Toronto has any desire to move him.

[greg775]

I think the Sox plans for 3B in 2014 is a platoon of Gillaspie and Semien. Not sure how that will play out though. So if the team thinks 3B is covered I think 1B needs to be dealt with. I want PK back but I am not sure if that will happen or not. I might also go for a real closer

 

I don't even know why Gillaspie is an option. He's just a body. He's not a good fielder and he's a blah hitter, mediocre at very best. Why is he a White Sox option for anything?

[Balta1701]

I don't even know why Gillaspie is an option. He's just a body. He's not a good fielder and he's a blah hitter, mediocre at very best. Why is he a White Sox option for anything?

It'd be nice to upgrade both spots, but given the choice of 3b and 1b upgrades, 1b is far more important. 1b was murder on this team this year, it killed te entire lineup. Our 1b hurt us far more than Gillaspie.

 

It only makes sense to make a 3b move if we find a real upgrade. A trained chimp would be an upgrade on our 1b slot after last year.

[witesoxfan]

I don't even know why Gillaspie is an option. He's just a body. He's not a good fielder and he's a blah hitter, mediocre at very best. Why is he a White Sox option for anything?

 

Because the White Sox have about 10 to 12 question marks throughout the team and he's one of the smaller question marks because we know he is adequate with the glove and that he has had some success against right handed pitching plus he's cost controlled and can be effective. If he actually progresses, like most young hitters do, and improves his approach all around next year, he is likely to put up .270/.330/.420/.750 against right handers and it's not out of the realm of possibility that he could put up .275/.350/.450/.800. If you pair that with Keppinger, and he gets back to being a .300/.350/.450 guy against lefties, you suddenly have a formidable platoon at 3B.

[knightni]

I still wonder if Zimmerman or Rondon would be available from Washington. Are they playing Rondon at 2B instead?

[witesoxfan]

I still wonder if Zimmerman or Rondon would be available from Washington. Are they playing Rondon at 2B instead?

 

Yes because Danny Espinosa sucks. Rendon performed pretty damn well there too in a small sample.

[Jerksticks]

I still wonder if Zimmerman or Rondon would be available from Washington. Are they playing Rondon at 2B instead?

What do you think of Arenado from the Rockies? That team annually needs pitching.

[Eminor3rd]

How many times did De Aza get thrown out being stupid this year or doubled off a base. He is 30 years old and very replaceable.

 

Not enough times to be a bad baserunner. He's not awesome, but if he's so replaceable, why is he our second best overall contributor on the position side? This team has several other players that need to be replaced first.

[toasty]

Beckham has been mediocre for four straight years now. It's time to move on if a guy like Semien is waiting right behind him.

 

Put Semien at 2B, improve C, 1B, 3B. CF and get a LH set up man.

 

Joe Crede says hello

[Dick Allen]

The one thing about De Aza is he didn't seem to be this stupid before 2013. He either suffered brain damage in the offseason, or it may be correctible. I think they would move him if they can get value for him, but if they give him away, it would be a mistake IMO.

[Soxfest]

Not enough times to be a bad baserunner. He's not awesome, but if he's so replaceable, why is he our second best overall contributor on the position side? This team has several other players that need to be replaced first.

When he gets denied arbitration this will show Sox do not value him either.

[winninguglyin83]

Dunn will make ... what, $15 million next season?

 

He's played three years and had about 6 good months out of 18 baseball months.

 

Not in shape.

 

Doen't contribute in the field or on the bases.

 

He's never been a winner anywhere he's played.

 

Until he goes, I don't believe the Sox will be any better than an average team (and I know that would be an improvement over this season).

 

 

[greg775]

Dunn will make ... what, $15 million next season?

 

He's played three years and had about 6 good months out of 18 baseball months.

 

Not in shape.

 

Doen't contribute in the field or on the bases.

 

He's never been a winner anywhere he's played.

 

Until he goes, I don't believe the Sox will be any better than an average team (and I know that would be an improvement over this season).

 

I do agree. But the Sox won't eat the 15 million and we'll have to endure him and the losing one more year. I do agree with the premise of your post, but he's here to stay.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Dunn will make ... what, $15 million next season?

 

He's played three years and had about 6 good months out of 18 baseball months.

 

Not in shape.

 

Doen't contribute in the field or on the bases.

 

He's never been a winner anywhere he's played.

 

Until he goes, I don't believe the Sox will be any better than an average team (and I know that would be an improvement over this season).

 

This is just silly to me. If you pair him with another good player or 2 there's no reason that team can't be good. 30+ HRs and 90+ ribs is nothing to scoff at no matter how many Ks he racks up. It'd be nice to add McCann and plug him into the 3 whole which then allows Dunn to hit lower in the lineup.

 

It's all about having those complimentary players around him. When both he and PK were doin work last year they were a playoff team. An oblique injury from him and a wrist injury from PK caused that team to fail. This year he really had no one around him. You pair him with the player we're all hoping Abreu is and that team can thrive much like last years team did. You throw McCann on top of that and you're in even better shape. You trade a SP for another key piece and you're in even better shape. You throw in a full year from Garcia and perhaps Semien and you're in even better shape.

Edited October 2, 2013 by scs787

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

What do you think of Arenado from the Rockies? That team annually needs pitching.

 

Headley, Arenado, Gyorko, Cabrera. I would think they would motivated to move one of those 4 for pitching.