One move...

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Signing Loney to a 3 year deal would be a horrible move. When you have arguably the worst offense in baseball, you don't sign a below-average offensive player to a multi-year deal to fill a position that is naturally offense-oriented. If you miss out on Abreu, Morales, and Hart then you might as well check the non-tender list or try to acquire a minor league that's blocked. I don't see any reason to go with James Loney unless it's a cheap, one year deal and even then I'd explore other options first.

I guess I could do this all day. When you have the worst offense in baseball and the worst defense and slow footed creatures all over the bases you don't look to hit HR's with your moves. You look to improve in all areas with every player you acquire. As usual all I keep hearing about is offense. Did Konerko hit .299. Did Konerko have the range of Loney ? Did Konerko run the bases with any speed ? Yes I want Abreu but failing that I want a better team in more areas than offense. I want improvement at positions , multiple positions. Don't like 3 years ? Have you looked at the dearth of quality 1st basemen around baseball lately ? You could do a lot worse than Loney by far. Don't act like you can get his kind of production out of just anyone. You don't pick guys up off the scrapheap who can hit field and run the bases at 1st the way he can. If he was good enough for TB in the playoffs he's good enough for the Sox .

Edited October 8, 2013 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Chicago White Sox]

I guess I could do this all day. When you have the worst offense in baseball and the worst defense and slow footed creatures all over the bases you don't look to hit HR's with your moves. You look to improve in all areas with every player you acquire. As usual all I keep hearing about is offense. Did Konerko hit .299. Did Konerko have the range of Loney ? Did Konerko run the bases with any speed ? Yes I want Abreu but failing that I want a better team in more areas than offense. I want improvement at positions , multiple positions. Don't like 3 years ? Have you looked at the dearth of quality 1st basemen around baseball lately ? You could do a lot worse than Loney by far. Don't act like you can get his kind of production out of just anyone. You don't pick guys up off the scrapheap you can hit field and run the bases at 1st the way he can. If he was good enough for TB in the playoffs he's good enough for the Sox .

I don't want a fast, defensive 1B when I play at the Cell. I want a guy that's going to hit a ton of HRs, especially given the lack of power with the rest of our infield. And if we can't acquire a better 1B than Loney this offseason, then we're better off accepting 2014 is a lost cause, because we aren't going to improve enough with him at a critical offensive position.

 

And what works for the Rays isn't automatically going to work for us. See Jeff Keppinger's numbers in 2012 and then take a look at Loney's this year. Both are clear outliers and I don't want get stuck with another mediocre player signed to a multi-year deal coming off a fluke year.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I don't want a fast, defensive 1B when I play at the Cell. I want a guy that's going to hit a ton of HRs, especially given the lack of power with the rest of our infield. And if we can't acquire a better 1B than Loney this offseason, then we're better off accepting 2014 is a lost cause, because we aren't going to improve enough with him at a critical offensive position.

 

And what works for the Rays isn't automatically going to work for us. See Jeff Keppinger's numbers in 2012 and then take a look at Loney's this year. Both are clear outliers and I don't want get stuck with another mediocre player signed to a multi-year deal coming off a fluke year.

Outlier? He had 1 bad year in 2012. The rest fof his career he's been rock steady. Who cares about lack of power from the rest of the infield . I'm looking to upgrade those too . One move for more power doesnt improve anything. All areas need improvement not just power. Ive' put myself out there with a plan to improve all facets of the Sox . What's your plan . Easy to snipe about one position . I want the pitchers happy . They are our bread and butter . Baseballs moving away from lumbering power inflated numbers. I'll take marked improvement in all areas of the game at multiple positions instead of some over the hill coming off injury HR quest that is the 1st base position in baseball now.

[chw42]

Loney is solid defensively but is not fast by any stretch.

 

 

Hart is 31 and 1 year removed from a season where his OPS was .841. That would be good for 1Bman 9th in baseball last year. Plus, that .841 was the lowest OPS he posted in his last seasons and he'd be moving to our ballpark.

 

Hart has upside. If Hart went 30/90 with a .275/.340/.515 slash nobody would be surprised.

 

Loney's career best at each of those statistics: 15/90 .299/.348/.434

 

Hart probably signs something like 1 yr 5 mil with incentives or 2 yr 8 mil.

 

Loney probably signs for much more than that.

 

I really like the idea of signing Corey Hart to a short term incentive laden deal. You really don't have much to lose, but a whole lot to gain.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Loney is solid defensively but is not fast by any stretch.

 

 

Hart is 31 and 1 year removed from a season where his OPS was .841. That would be good for 1Bman 9th in baseball last year. Plus, that .841 was the lowest OPS he posted in his last seasons and he'd be moving to our ballpark.

 

Hart has upside. If Hart went 30/90 with a .275/.340/.515 slash nobody would be surprised.

 

Loney's career best at each of those statistics: 15/90 .299/.348/.434

 

Hart probably signs something like 1 yr 5 mil with incentives or 2 yr 8 mil.

 

Loney probably signs for much more than that.

Hart will be 32 when the 2014 season starts and I would be surprised if he goes 30/90 with that slash line coming off 2 knee surgeries and missing a whole year+ counting the off season. You bolded "over the hill" but you can see that was my mini-rant about 1st base in general . The Texeira , Ryan Howard, Justin Moreau types while you should have bolded the injury part of the rant that applies to Hart. You're all acting like these things are no big deal. He injured one knee then while rehabbing , screwed the other one up . Taking his stats from 2012 and saying they'd be 9th in baseball in 2013 means nothing because he was injured for 2013 , the whole season. He will never be what he was physically before the injuries .The dude wants to be in Milwaukee if the Brewers say no that should tell you something. He's practically throwing himself at them ,begging them to take him back.

 

I don't understand why we all want Abreu , then if we don't get him for that high dollar amount then all of a sudden we go cheap at 1st base. Loney won't even end up getting half of what Abreu probably ends up with, maybe even 1/3 but I'll guess between 1/2 and 1/3. I wouldn't be unhappy getting Hart . I just think it's more likely for Loney to have a better season and he's more obtainable and he's lefthanded. It would be nice to have a few .290+ batting averages in the lineup to sustain rallies for once and not dread the lefty on lefty matchup instead of a bunch of .250 hitters like we had last year.

Edited October 9, 2013 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[lasttriptotulsa]

Where is the idea of James Loney being a good firstbasemen coming from? He has been a negative value defender his whole career. If I'm signing a first basemen thats going to have a .750 OPS and hit MAYBE 15 homers, he better be gold glove caliber. While I don't think Hart is the piece that is going to put us over the top, give me him anyday of the week over Loney if we miss out on Abreu. He'll probably come much cheaper and if healthy should outproduce Loney.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Where is the idea of James Loney being a good firstbasemen coming from? He has been a negative value defender his whole career. If I'm signing a first basemen thats going to have a .750 OPS and hit MAYBE 15 homers, he better be gold glove caliber. While I don't think Hart is the piece that is going to put us over the top, give me him anyday of the week over Loney if we miss out on Abreu. He'll probably come much cheaper and if healthy should outproduce Loney.

His ex manager Joe Torre said he was a plus defensively. Here's another article about potential bargain free agents who do well defensively when runs scored are way down in baseball. http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/...free-agents-mlb You know defensive metrics don't give 1st basemen much leeway or praise like they do other positions. Defensive metrics are still a work in progress so read the article. It's ESPN insider but you can still see the 1st 2 paragraphs about Loney's defense. If your going to trust defensive metrics then you need to see DRS and if you don't know what that is then don't disparage his defense without more knowledge.

Edited October 9, 2013 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[lasttriptotulsa]

His ex manager Joe Torre said he was a plus defensively. Here's another article about potential bargain free agents who do well defensively when runs scored are way down in baseball.http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9772000/james-loney-potential-bargain-free-agents-mlb You know defensive metrics don't give 1st basemen much leeway or praise like they do other positions. Defensive metrics are still a work in progress so read the article. It's ESPN insider but you can still see the 1st 2 paragraphs about Loney's defense. If your going to trust defensive metrics then you need to see DRS and if you don't know what that is then don't disparage his defense without more knowledge.

 

Ok so lets use DRS. Loney has 21 DRS over the past 3 years (437 games played at 1B). That comes out to be about 1 run saved every 21 games. Is that really enough to overcome his complete lack of power? Especially on our current roster where we will probably only get 30-40 homers total from the rest of our infield? I don't think so. 1B is a offensive position.

[oldsox]

Loney made a great play last night in the loss to BoSox. Just one play, but it was big time. Keep in mind Tampa is not a HR hitters park. He'll show more power at the Cell. He is our best shot at 1B, Abreu not coming to Chi. Why would he?

[LittleHurt05]

Loney made a great play last night in the loss to BoSox. Just one play, but it was big time. Keep in mind Tampa is not a HR hitters park. He'll show more power at the Cell. He is our best shot at 1B, Abreu not coming to Chi. Why would he?

 

 

Anybody else feel like they hear this all the time, yet it never comes to fruition with new players?

[witesoxfan]

Loney made a great play last night in the loss to BoSox. Just one play, but it was big time. Keep in mind Tampa is not a HR hitters park. He'll show more power at the Cell. He is our best shot at 1B, Abreu not coming to Chi. Why would he?

 

Because they offer him the most money and the chance to play with fellow Cubans? Do you really think if the Sox offered $50 million and the Rangers offered $20 million he'd say "CHICAGO IS FULL OF BUTT MUNCHERS, TEXAS ALL THE WAY!" or do you think he'd probably sign with the Sox?

 

Consider me strongly opposed to the idea of James Loney. This is a guy that I feel, if the Sox signed him, would become an instant goat.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Ok so lets use DRS. Loney has 21 DRS over the past 3 years (437 games played at 1B). That comes out to be about 1 run saved every 21 games. Is that really enough to overcome his complete lack of power? Especially on our current roster where we will probably only get 30-40 homers total from the rest of our infield? I don't think so. 1B is a offensive position.

It's enough to improve the D from 1stB last year and so are all his other htting qualities. You are all hung up on this idea that he doesnt have enough power for the postion when I look at he improves what we had last year. You make imrovements at 5 or 6 positions on offense and defense, you're improving the teams 10- 12 ways better than last year. We played tons of 1 run games. Win more of those close games and you turn around your record with the pitching we already have. Baseball is a team game . It all adds up if your plan is to improve 5-6 positions. Not just the offense, but the defense and baserunning need help too .

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Because they offer him the most money and the chance to play with fellow Cubans? Do you really think if the Sox offered $50 million and the Rangers offered $20 million he'd say "CHICAGO IS FULL OF BUTT MUNCHERS, TEXAS ALL THE WAY!" or do you think he'd probably sign with the Sox?

 

Consider me strongly opposed to the idea of James Loney. This is a guy that I feel, if the Sox signed him, would become an instant goat.

As opposed to the 20 or so goats we already have ??

[witesoxfan]

As opposed to the 20 or so goats we already have ??

 

I think Loney would be the biggest one by far, and I think most of it would have to do with the inevitable .270/.330/.370 he puts up in his first season with the Sox. You just need more out of a 1B than that.

Edited October 9, 2013 by witesoxfan

[chw42]

Anybody else feel like they hear this all the time, yet it never comes to fruition with new players?

 

Mark Teahen, Nick Swisher, etc...

[chw42]

I think Loney would be the biggest one by far, and I think most of it would have to do with the inevitable .270/.330/.370 he puts up in his first season with the Sox. You just need more out of a 1B than that.

 

If only we got that out of our 1B this year...

[witesoxfan]

If only we got that out of our 1B this year...

 

Silly goose, Sox 1B put up .251/.341/.410/.751, all because of Konerko

[Dick Allen]

Loney in 2012 was worse offensively than Konerko in 2013. The team that pays Loney based on 2013, a .778 OPS he hasn't had since 2007, is going to be about as happy about it as Rick Hahn is he signed Keppinger.

[chw42]

Silly goose, Sox 1B put up .251/.341/.410/.751, all because of Konerko

 

I'm pleasantly surprised by that.

[Eminor3rd]

James Loney just had his career year at 2.7 WAR, and he's poised to be overpaid. Also, despite his reputation for being a high end defender, he has managed a negative UZR literally every year of his career. Sure, UZR can be wonky from year to year, but six consecutive years of below average numbers paints a pretty compelling picture.

 

At his best, he's a touch above an average player, and he's about to be overpaid to enter his decline years.

[NorthSideSox72]

I'm pleasantly surprised by that.

Dunn had far better hitting numbers on days he played 1B, which helped out that number a lot.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I think Loney would be the biggest one by far, and I think most of it would have to do with the inevitable .270/.330/.370 he puts up in his first season with the Sox. You just need more out of a 1B than that.

So you expect his avg, obp ,and slg. to drop below his career average in the Cell ? I expect at least a 285.avg 340obp. and .420 slg. if not higher.

[witesoxfan]

So you expect his avg, obp ,and slg. to drop below his career average in the Cell ? I expect at least a 285.avg 340obp. and .420 slg. if not higher.

 

In today's hitting environment, I absolutely do. Even if he put up .285/.340/.420, that is still less than what you want from your 1B, especially on a team as devoid of talent as the Sox are offensively.

[Balta1701]

So you expect his avg, obp ,and slg. to drop below his career average in the Cell ? I expect at least a 285.avg 340obp. and .420 slg. if not higher.

A guy coming off a career-best year and turning 30? yeah, reductions in his performance should be expected.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Loney in 2012 was worse offensively than Konerko in 2013. The team that pays Loney based on 2013, a .778 OPS he hasn't had since 2007, is going to be about as happy about it as Rick Hahn is he signed Keppinger.

His one bad year. If you use that as your gauge ,Konerko had a few bad years. Did you think that was likely to happen for the rest of career also.