clujer420 Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 I'd say that's a big 10-4. Me & him just don't agree, and he can't be honest enough to admit he's got a personal agenda in the matter. That's fine with me. But, I'm through with the back-and-forth business -- we're not going to agree on the Colon "debate", so I shall not waste my time. Still time for the group hug? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Wheater he quits or not he is much better than 90% of other players. I wish Koch would quit. Although I see your point I think you are going off the deep end. If you think Danny Wright could add as much to this team as our number 3, I would have to seriously question your thinking. As much as I would like to hope everyone gives 110% every time out there, it is physically not possible. As far as his comments I hold newspaper stories and quotes with about as much regard as I do any tabloid. For some reason in this case the quotes were dead on but when the quotes pertain to Thomas and Manuel, they are out of context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Corg, this whole "Tub of Goo" thing has gone too far. Why dont ya just give it a rest and give Colon his props. If Colon pitches great the rest of the season, we make the playoffs and go pretty far with him pitching great, and he resigns for next year, are ya still gonna hate him? I think so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Me & him just don't agree, and he can't be honest enough to admit he's got a personal agenda in the matter. That's fine with me. But, I'm through with the back-and-forth business -- we're not going to agree on the Colon "debate", so I shall not waste my time. Still time for the group hug? If you don't want the back and forth, then get it right, it is NOT personal against Colon. It is strictly what he has done in a White Sox uniform. Nothing more, nothing less. His appearance is no more than 'easy' ammo to chide him, but the fact remains he has not pitched for us as he has for other teams, and other fans. That I take personally. I'll hug Steff, or HSC or Heather but I'll take a pass on you hairy ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Corg, this whole "Tub of Goo" thing has gone too far. Why dont ya just give it a rest and give Colon his props. If Colon pitches great the rest of the season, we make the playoffs and go pretty far with him pitching great, and he resigns for next year, are ya still gonna hate him? I think so... Absolutely not. If he 'steps up' the rest of the season, makes the effort for us he's made elswhere, and in the playoffs and we resign him, which I doubt, and continues to make the effort, I'll cheer him as I do Thomas and Valentin and the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 If you don't want the back and forth, then get it right, it is NOT personal against Colon. he has not pitched for us as he has for other teams, and other fans. That I take personally. Then you too should get it right and not put words into my mouth. And as an adult, you really shouldn't let anything an athlete does offend you on a personal level. Fact is, we're going to need Colon to perform like an ace down the stretch, and I HIGHLY...HIGHLY doubt he's going to give it less than a 100% effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Me & him just don't agree, and he can't be honest enough to admit he's got a personal agenda in the matter. That's fine with me. But, I'm through with the back-and-forth business -- we're not going to agree on the Colon "debate", so I shall not waste my time. Still time for the group hug? If you don't want the back and forth, then get it right, it is NOT personal against Colon. It is strictly what he has done in a White Sox uniform. Nothing more, nothing less. His appearance is no more than 'easy' ammo to chide him, but the fact remains he has not pitched for us as he has for other teams, and other fans. That I take personally. I'll hug Steff, or HSC or Heather but I'll take a pass on you hairy ones. How about your thoughts on David Wells. Did he pitch at a much lower level than previous and look at what he had done since moving to a place he enjoyed. Yet not resigning him is one of the moves you point as being a KW mistake. There was no way he was signing with us. He used the D'Backs and he would have used us. You defend a guy that was 100x worse than Colon but then chide Colon who is pitching better than Wells and making about $4M less. I miss the rational here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Me & him just don't agree, and he can't be honest enough to admit he's got a personal agenda in the matter. That's fine with me. But, I'm through with the back-and-forth business -- we're not going to agree on the Colon "debate", so I shall not waste my time. Still time for the group hug? If you don't want the back and forth, then get it right, it is NOT personal against Colon. It is strictly what he has done in a White Sox uniform. Nothing more, nothing less. His appearance is no more than 'easy' ammo to chide him, but the fact remains he has not pitched for us as he has for other teams, and other fans. That I take personally. I'll hug Steff, or HSC or Heather but I'll take a pass on you hairy ones. I still don't understand why you and others insist he's not pitching as well as he has for other teams. Yes, his record isn't as good, but the whole team played like crap the first half of the year. The numbers that really count for a pitcher--ERA, WHIP, and K's show that Colon is pitching just as well this year as he has in any other year in his career. A pitcher could possibly have a 1.50 ERA, average 20 K's per 9 innings and have a WHIP under 1.00, and have a record of 0-20. I would take that guy on my team any time. Have you watched enough of him in Cleveland and Montreal to be sure this is a new attitude for him? I don't see how he could be doing much of anything differently considering the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 If you don't want the back and forth, then get it right, it is NOT personal against Colon. he has not pitched for us as he has for other teams, and other fans. That I take personally. Then you too should get it right and not put words into my mouth. And as an adult, you really shouldn't let anything an athlete does offend you on a personal level. Fact is, we're going to need Colon to perform like an ace down the stretch, and I HIGHLY...HIGHLY doubt he's going to give it less than a 100% effort. Obviously he's not convinced me he can spell '100%'. As an 'adult'? Go f*** yourself. Who the f*** are you? Take your inane left handed slaps and shove them up your ass sideways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 How about your thoughts on David Wells. Did he pitch at a much lower level than previous and look at what he had done since moving to a place he enjoyed. Yet not resigning him is one of the moves you point as being a KW mistake. There was no way he was signing with us. He used the D'Backs and he would have used us. You defend a guy that was 100x worse than Colon but then chide Colon who is pitching better than Wells and making about $4M less. I miss the rational here. Before Wells back went out he did pitch for us, and led the team. He tutored Buehrle who still credits him and others. He offered here first, and would've signed an incentive contract the same or less than the Yankees gave him. David Wells may be a tool, but he made the effort for us as long as he could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 How about your thoughts on David Wells. Did he pitch at a much lower level than previous and look at what he had done since moving to a place he enjoyed. Yet not resigning him is one of the moves you point as being a KW mistake. There was no way he was signing with us. He used the D'Backs and he would have used us. You defend a guy that was 100x worse than Colon but then chide Colon who is pitching better than Wells and making about $4M less. I miss the rational here. Before Wells back went out he did pitch for us, and led the team. He tutored Buehrle who still credits him and others. He offered here first, and would've signed an incentive contract the same or less than the Yankees gave him. David Wells may be a tool, but he made the effort for us as long as he could. Made an effort to unjustly kick his teammates while they were down too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 I still don't understand why you and others insist he's not pitching as well as he has for other teams. Yes, his record isn't as good, but the whole team played like crap the first half of the year. The numbers that really count for a pitcher--ERA, WHIP, and K's show that Colon is pitching just as well this year as he has in any other year in his career. A pitcher could possibly have a 1.50 ERA, average 20 K's per 9 innings and have a WHIP under 1.00, and have a record of 0-20. I would take that guy on my team any time. Have you watched enough of him in Cleveland and Montreal to be sure this is a new attitude for him? I don't see how he could be doing much of anything differently considering the facts. The numbers that really count are Wins. Loaiza managed OK with the same lineup. Colon was quoted, and I posted the quote, and Manuel followed up with a quote verifying that GooBoy waits to see if his teammates show up. When they do, then it's "time to show who he is". That's not making the effort to 'step up'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Corg, this whole "Tub of Goo" thing has gone too far. Why dont ya just give it a rest and give Colon his props. If Colon pitches great the rest of the season, we make the playoffs and go pretty far with him pitching great, and he resigns for next year, are ya still gonna hate him? I think so... LOL.. Pot, meet the kettle And Colon will not be here next year. Already got his Yank uniform ready I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Made an effort to unjustly kick his teammates while they were down too... No, he did not. Look at today's Sun-Times, Frank says, in a quote, just what I've posted before, it was a 'media' made flap, not anything between the two, once Frank understood it all. That misperception is still perpetuated everywhere, even by McNeil yeaterday, and he was a proponent of the whole deal. Nonetheless, the whole thing was twisted by 'KotexBoy' Marriotti, and solved by Thomas and Wells within 15 minutes of it happeneing. Nobody bothers to talk about that part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 If you don't want the back and forth, then get it right, it is NOT personal against Colon. he has not pitched for us as he has for other teams, and other fans. That I take personally. Then you too should get it right and not put words into my mouth. And as an adult, you really shouldn't let anything an athlete does offend you on a personal level. Fact is, we're going to need Colon to perform like an ace down the stretch, and I HIGHLY...HIGHLY doubt he's going to give it less than a 100% effort. Obviously he's not convinced me he can spell '100%'. As an 'adult'? Go f*** yourself. Who the f*** are you? Take your inane left handed slaps and shove them up your ass sideways. Oh geezus... That's enough. WTF is wrong with you people??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Oh geezus... That's enough. WTF is wrong with you people??? Just reactions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 I still don't understand why you and others insist he's not pitching as well as he has for other teams. Yes, his record isn't as good, but the whole team played like crap the first half of the year. The numbers that really count for a pitcher--ERA, WHIP, and K's show that Colon is pitching just as well this year as he has in any other year in his career. A pitcher could possibly have a 1.50 ERA, average 20 K's per 9 innings and have a WHIP under 1.00, and have a record of 0-20. I would take that guy on my team any time. Have you watched enough of him in Cleveland and Montreal to be sure this is a new attitude for him? I don't see how he could be doing much of anything differently considering the facts. The numbers that really count are Wins. Loaiza managed OK with the same lineup. Colon was quoted, and I posted the quote, and Manuel followed up with a quote verifying that GooBoy waits to see if his teammates show up. When they do, then it's "time to show who he is". That's not making the effort to 'step up'. True, Loaiza did fine, but Buehrle didn't. Look at Barry Zito's numbers as well. A pitcher cannot ever control how many runs his team will score, so I don't think it's fair to say that he isn't the same pitcher based on record alone. I don't know about the whole attitude thing--I read the same thing you did and thought it was strange. It certainly isn't anything that would endear Colon to Sox fans, but we are talking about a guy who is NOT from America, and doesn't speak English. Could something have gotten misinterpreted or taken out of context in that article? I don't know, maybe maybe not. Since I can't know any of that for sure, I can only go by his numbers, which are right at the levels we should be getting from him. Anyone who mistakenly thought we were getting a Big Unit, or Rocket based on a 20-win season aided by changing leagues and having two excellent defensive teams behind him may have fell victim to the hype machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Made an effort to unjustly kick his teammates while they were down too... No, he did not. Look at today's Sun-Times, Frank says, in a quote, just what I've posted before, it was a 'media' made flap, not anything between the two, once Frank understood it all. That misperception is still perpetuated everywhere, even by McNeil yeaterday, and he was a proponent of the whole deal. Nonetheless, the whole thing was twisted by 'KotexBoy' Marriotti, and solved by Thomas and Wells within 15 minutes of it happeneing. Nobody bothers to talk about that part. So read the ST to solve something that was lied about in the ST in the first place? I guess that's why I read the Trib Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Wells made 16 starts with the Sox. He was paid $9 million + a $1 million buyout. $10 million for 16 starts and 5 wins. His record was 5-7 his era 4.47. He was 30 pounds heavier than he is now, he is the original tub of goo. To defend him and rip Bartolo is ridiculous. He really led the team. Every argument against Bartolo this guy was guilty of times ten. You are right about one thing, he is a tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Wells made 16 starts with the Sox. He was paid $9 million + a $1 million buyout. $10 million for 16 starts and 5 wins. His record was 5-7 his era 4.47. He was 30 pounds heavier than he is now, he is the original tub of goo. To defend him and rip Bartolo is ridiculous. He really led the team. Every argument against Bartolo this guy was guilty of times ten. You are right about one thing, he is a tool. There's no argument Wells was heavier then, and as argued long and hard with baggs many times he had been successful at that weight, and with that back, using his method of 'getting in shape' for years, and it worked. His only other option was the knife, and back surgery can leave you crippled. I can't fault the guy for doing what had worked for so long, nor can I fault him for getting hurt. I won't fault any player for injury. However, up until his injury he was our best, as JR himself was quoted as saying publically at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 So read the ST to solve something that was lied about in the ST in the first place? I guess that's why I read the Trib The cUBUNE? That may be worse! I believe the quotes, the rest is just to sell newspapers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 There's no argument Wells was heavier then, and as argued long and hard with baggs many times he had been successful at that weight, and with that back, using his method of 'getting in shape' for years, and it worked. His only other option was the knife, and back surgery can leave you crippled. I can't fault the guy for doing what had worked for so long, nor can I fault him for getting hurt. I won't fault any player for injury. However, up until his injury he was our best, as JR himself was quoted as saying publically at the time. He had problems with his back for several years, it wasn't until his career was threatened that he decided to get in shape.At least in shape for him. You've made a big point about Bartolo doing things for other teams he was with and not the Sox. Wells was horrible for the Sox. He was supposedly Mr. complete game, he won 5 games.He didn't live up to his end of the deal. At least he didn't cost the Sox anything but a lot of money. $2 million a win, $625,000 a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Wells made 16 starts with the Sox. He was paid $9 million + a $1 million buyout. $10 million for 16 starts and 5 wins. His record was 5-7 his era 4.47. He was 30 pounds heavier than he is now, he is the original tub of goo. NO HE IS NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TERRY FORSTER is the OTG!!!!!!!!!!! Don't you DARE besmirch the great round image of TERRY FORSTER!!!! TUB O' GOO TERRY ....he and Gossage were two of my earliest Sox favorites, by the way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 He had problems with his back for several years, it wasn't until his career was threatened that he decided to get in shape.At least in shape for him. You've made a big point about Bartolo doing things for other teams he was with and not the Sox. Wells was horrible for the Sox. He was supposedly Mr. complete game, he won 5 games.He didn't live up to his end of the deal. At least he didn't cost the Sox anything but a lot of money. $2 million a win, $625,000 a start. Yes, but he was successful during that time. He was successful until he got hurt here. He made the decision to have surgery when his career was threatened, not get into shape. Getting in shape(?) was the result of the surgery and rehab. Again, I can't fault someone for avoiding surgery at all costs, especially when it could leave you crippled, and what you were doing was working. He cost the Sox about 1/3 of that, it was covered by insurance as they do on bigger contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafacosta Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Ncorgl, cala a boca! Só conversa merda. Saying bad about Colon and good things about WELLS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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