How Should Rick Hahn Fix The White Sox

[greg775]

It's pretty simple: Sign Abreu and McCann or AJP; McCann long term; AJ one year if can't get McCann.

Then trade Hector and Beckham for a third baseman.

Let Semien play second.

Now you then sign Granderson or Choo while trading DeAza for whatever you can get for him.

 

You now have better hitters in the lineup than this year: McCann, Grandy, Abreu, Semien and A. Garcia. That's a pretty fricking good upgrade and IT CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED.

[Eminor3rd]

It's pretty simple: Sign Abreu and McCann or AJP; McCann long term; AJ one year if can't get McCann.

Then trade Hector and Beckham for a third baseman.

Let Semien play second.

Now you then sign Granderson or Choo while trading DeAza for whatever you can get for him.

 

You now have better hitters in the lineup than this year: McCann, Grandy, Abreu, Semien and A. Garcia. That's a pretty fricking good upgrade and IT CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED.

 

How much money are you going to have to give McCann to choose us over Texas or Boston? You comfortable going up to 5/100 for Choo? Can you afford both of them and still find $70m for Abreu? Which third baseman is available for Beckham and Hector?

 

I don't know, that sounds like a tall order to me.

[greg775]

How much money are you going to have to give McCann to choose us over Texas or Boston? You comfortable going up to 5/100 for Choo? Can you afford both of them and still find $70m for Abreu? Which third baseman is available for Beckham and Hector?

 

I don't know, that sounds like a tall order to me.

 

Well, I have criticized the Sox bad contracts in the past (Rios, Dunn, Danks) so I guess all I can say is I trust Hahn to do the right thing this time around. Sox are going to have to pay somebody to fix this atrocious lineup or we lose 99 to 108 games again. Personally I'd suggest signing AJP for a pittance and yes, throw some cash at Grandy or Choo and of course, Abreu and pray it works out.

At least my couple of minor deals adds five new bats to our crummy lineup. That's not a bad attempt at improvement (Semien; Garcia; McCann/AJ; Grandy/Choo; new third baseman.

Edited October 3, 2013 by greg775

[caulfield12]

It's pretty simple: Sign Abreu and McCann or AJP; McCann long term; AJ one year if can't get McCann.

Then trade Hector and Beckham for a third baseman.

Let Semien play second.

Now you then sign Granderson or Choo while trading DeAza for whatever you can get for him.

 

You now have better hitters in the lineup than this year: McCann, Grandy, Abreu, Semien and A. Garcia. That's a pretty fricking good upgrade and IT CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED.

 

 

Granderson's not an everyday CF and won't stand up well against LHP...strikes out too much, we already have a cheaper version in DeAza.

 

Choo will be way overpriced based on this year's results in the NL, and then he forces either himself or A. Garcia into CF, which is a big no-no.

 

You might as well make it Hector Santiago and a bag of baseballs....at least Santiago's going to get you something back. I just worry when he's away from the White Sox he will come into his own, like Liriano has with the Pirates this season going with mostly 2 seam sinking fastballs and a much more strategic defensive positioning strategy than the White Sox currently possess.

 

No to AJ....too late. His time has come and gone.

 

Abreu, you better do your due diligence...and McCann makes sense if you are able to add 2-3 players together, but that's almost impossible to imagine the White Sox doing, which is committing to $100-150 million in new FA contracts for McCann, Abreu and one more player (Choo and Ellsbury are going to be too expensive).

 

The problem is that adding just one of those three (catcher/1B/OF) doesn't really put us in a position to compete.

 

So I think you have to sign two free agents and deal Santiago/Quintana for the highest possible return....or tread water and keep waiting for the right pieces to emerge at the right prices (like Dye or Thome, as mentioned earlier).

 

 

[chisoxt]

Given the state that our organization is in compared to teams like Tampa Bay, Oakland, Cleveland, Detroit, Boston etc, there is no doubt in my mind that this team will have zero shot at winning anything for about four or five years at least. If Hahn is unsuccessful in landing some quality free agent talent this off season, he is going to have a tough decision regarding Sale and Qunitana because this team will lose over 100 next year.

 

The fundamental question here is will either of the guys be part of your next championship core? If that answer is no, then you have to consider what those two players may get you in return. It's not like you have to run out now an deal them, but I would consider it at the trade deadline next year for sure.

 

Let's face it...you don't neglect your farm system for years the way the Sox have had an not pay steep price for it.

[hogan873]

Well, I have criticized the Sox bad contracts in the past (Rios, Dunn, Danks) so I guess all I can say is I trust Hahn to do the right thing this time around. Sox are going to have to pay somebody to fix this atrocious lineup or we lose 99 to 108 games again. Personally I'd suggest signing AJP for a pittance and yes, throw some cash at Grandy or Choo and of course, Abreu and pray it works out.

At least my couple of minor deals adds five new bats to our crummy lineup. That's not a bad attempt at improvement (Semien; Garcia; McCann/AJ; Grandy/Choo; new third baseman.

Abreu would be great, and I think the Sox have a chance there. How much of a chance? Better than Lloyd's chances with Mary (Samsonite) Swanson, but not dramatically so. If they overpay for him, there's no money for a catcher (McCann). I like AJ, but he's not a solution, not even for one year. And Choo is going to get paid, big time. The Sox won't be signing him.

[Chicago White Sox]

Abreu would be great, and I think the Sox have a chance there. How much of a chance? Better than Lloyd's chances with Mary (Samsonite) Swanson, but not dramatically so. If they overpay for him, there's no money for a catcher (McCann). I like AJ, but he's not a solution, not even for one year. And Choo is going to get paid, big time. The Sox won't be signing him.

Affording both Abreu & McCann shouldn't be much of a concern. We should have plenty of money to work with, so it's really just a question whether these are the guys you want to spend your money on and whether or not you're comfortable with the years it will take to have them to sign with you.

 

I honestly believe Hahn will target both of these guys, but only if the dollars and years make sense. Hopefully something happens on the Abreu front soon, because signing him before the rest of free agency begins would allow Hahn to be a little more aggressive filling other holes.

[witesoxfan]

Well, I have criticized the Sox bad contracts in the past (Rios, Dunn, Danks) so I guess all I can say is I trust Hahn to do the right thing this time around. Sox are going to have to pay somebody to fix this atrocious lineup or we lose 99 to 108 games again. Personally I'd suggest signing AJP for a pittance and yes, throw some cash at Grandy or Choo and of course, Abreu and pray it works out.

At least my couple of minor deals adds five new bats to our crummy lineup. That's not a bad attempt at improvement (Semien; Garcia; McCann/AJ; Grandy/Choo; new third baseman.

 

If you took the White Sox lineup from September and let them play 100 quick seasons, they'd lose 90 or fewer more times than not. It wasn't a good team, but they were pretty snakebitten all year long.

Edited October 3, 2013 by witesoxfan

[caulfield12]

If you look at the 2004-2005 and 2007-2008 offseasons, you'd find perhaps a majority of Sox fans thinking those teams were 3-5 years from contending for another division crown.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

If you look at the 2004-2005 and 2007-2008 offseasons, you'd find perhaps a majority of Sox fans thinking those teams were 3-5 years from contending for another division crown.

 

If you look at the 2005-2006 and 2008-2009 offseasons, you'd find that most people thought the Sox would go on sustained periods of success. It's a fickle game.

[caulfield12]

If you look at the 2005-2006 and 2008-2009 offseasons, you'd find that most people thought the Sox would go on sustained periods of success. It's a fickle game.

 

 

Adding Javy (the now questionable 6 starters strategy, with McCarthy eventually traded for Danks) and adding Viciedo (who seemed like he was pretty close to being a legit contributor at 3B in light of the ending of Crede's career and Uribe filling in to end 2008) were pretty logical moves.

 

The Thome for Rowand one, in particular...perfect situation where we got back a ton of cash and ended up with a hitter not so far off his prime for most of the time he was with us.

 

But Mackowiak...? Wish we could redo that one.

[balfanman]

But Mackowiak...? Wish we could redo that one.

 

I loved the Mackowiak move. He was not used properly in his time here.

 

The Sox, for the most part, have always tried to force people in centerfield who were not centerfielders. currently DeAza. I will absolutely puke if Avi Garcia is our opening day centerfielder next year, leave him in right. I want a true centerfielder, even if it's Jordan Danks, who I still think can be an average hitter in MLB.

[southsider2k5]

Adding Javy (the now questionable 6 starters strategy, with McCarthy eventually traded for Danks) and adding Viciedo (who seemed like he was pretty close to being a legit contributor at 3B in light of the ending of Crede's career and Uribe filling in to end 2008) were pretty logical moves.

 

The Thome for Rowand one, in particular...perfect situation where we got back a ton of cash and ended up with a hitter not so far off his prime for most of the time he was with us.

 

But Mackowiak...? Wish we could redo that one.

 

Meh. We got him for a middle reliever hitting his expensive years.

[Dick Allen]

Mackowiak actually hit pretty well for the White Sox, especially a bench player. Defensively he was awful.

[Dunt]

Abreu and McCann are tops on my wishlist as well, but I think I am just setting myself up for disappointment there. Wouldnt mind seeing the Sox trade Santiago and Beckham.

[greg775]

Abreu would be great, and I think the Sox have a chance there. How much of a chance? Better than Lloyd's chances with Mary (Samsonite) Swanson, but not dramatically so. If they overpay for him, there's no money for a catcher (McCann). I like AJ, but he's not a solution, not even for one year. And Choo is going to get paid, big time. The Sox won't be signing him.

 

Well the Sox better get some new bodies somewhere. Maybe get some journeymen like the Indians did and hope they pan out. Sox are going to have to pay for somebody unless they refuse to sign guys to big contracts after the Dunn/Rios fiascos.

[caulfield12]

Well the Sox better get some new bodies somewhere. Maybe get some journeymen like the Indians did and hope they pan out. Sox are going to have to pay for somebody unless they refuse to sign guys to big contracts after the Dunn/Rios fiascos.

 

I wouldn't consider Michael Bourn to be a journeyman.

 

Swisher was somewhere in between....he's in his early 30's now but had some decent seasons in NY, kind of like Granderson's status now. Declining, but a "name" player who will get a lot more money than he's actually worth from someone.

 

 

[Jose Abreu]

Pretty harsh reviews on Axelrod's wikipedia page. We know he won't be back, but sheesh.

"In 2013, Axelrod was a starter for the first half of the season. He was decent, but his season spiraled out of control in mid-June. After being moved to the bullpen in order to make room for the sensational Hector Santiago, his ERA increased at a rapid measure, and by mid-September, he was considered by many Chicago fans to be the worst pitcher in White Sox history. After that, Axelrod made a spot-start for the injured Andre Rienzo, only to allow twelve runs in two innings. Axelrod is not expected to be resigned by Chicago in the offseason."

 

[2nd_city_saint787]

Pretty harsh reviews on Axelrod's wikipedia page. We know he won't be back, but sheesh.

"In 2013, Axelrod was a starter for the first half of the season. He was decent, but his season spiraled out of control in mid-June. After being moved to the bullpen in order to make room for the sensational Hector Santiago, his ERA increased at a rapid measure, and by mid-September, he was considered by many Chicago fans to be the worst pitcher in White Sox history. After that, Axelrod made a spot-start for the injured Andre Rienzo, only to allow twelve runs in two innings. Axelrod is not expected to be resigned by Chicago in the offseason."

 

Not only is it "harsh", but it's also incorrect....He only gave up 7 runs.

 

 

I'm sure there's been worse starters in Chicagos history, but ya, he was pretty bad, and there's probably no way he's brought back.

Edited October 4, 2013 by scs787

[Jose Abreu]

Not only is it "harsh", but it's also incorrect....He only gave up 7 runs.

 

 

I'm sure there's been worse starters in Chicagos history, but ya, he was pretty bad, and there's probably no way he's brought back.

Agreed. Also love how that sounds: "he only gave up seven runs!"

Edited October 4, 2013 by ChiSoxFan05

[Lillian]

Why not target 2015 as the first year to really compete?

Under that scenario, the big piece is Abreu, because he is young enough to be a factor in 2015 and beyond.

The young pitching will still be affordable in 2015 and if the Sox don't commit to any more long term contracts, and with Dunn gone, they could then use the funds saved to fill in the missing pieces in free agency, after next season.

 

I think that the key is to retain the young pitching, and spend the next season trying to assemble a formidable middle of the order, which is where this team has the biggest hole. Konerko and Dunn were terrible as 3 and 4 hitters. If Garcia and Abreu can replace them, and one other bat, can emerge or be acquired in free agency, the supporting players would not be that hard to find. That third middle of the order hitter should be left handed, and bat between Garcia and Abreu. If Viciedo develops into a stud, then they could have an exceptionally formidable line up.

 

Centerfield is an issue, however if the offense were solid in the middle of the order, the Sox would have the luxury of opting for a good defensive center fielder with an average bat, which is much easier to find.

 

They have the number 3 draft choice to add to the mix, and that player may also be ready to contribute by 2015.

If they can add Abreu, and keep the payroll under control, next year could be devoted to discovering what they have in young guys like Garcia, Semien, E. Johnson, and this year's draft choice. Then there are the very young guys, further back in the pipeline, like Hawkins and Tim Anderson. Even guys like Viciedo and Gillaspie might reveal much more about their true value after one more season.

 

For my part, I would be very content to patiently wait one more year, providing that there were a plan with some realistic hope of competing in 2015. Wouldn't you?

Edited October 4, 2013 by Lillian

[caulfield12]

Why not target 2015 as the first year to really compete?

Under that scenario, the big piece is Abreu, because he is young enough to be a factor in 2015 and beyond.

The young pitching will still be affordable in 2015 and if the Sox don't commit to any more long term contracts, and with Dunn gone, they could then use the funds saved to fill in the missing pieces in free agency, after next season.

 

I think that the key is to retain the young pitching, and spend the next season trying to assemble a formidable middle of the order, which is where this team has the biggest hole. Konerko and Dunn were terrible as 3 and 4 hitters. If Garcia and Abreu can replace them, and one other bat, can emerge or be acquired in free agency, the supporting players would not be that hard to find. That third middle of the order hitter should be left handed, and bat between Garcia and Abreu. If Viciedo develops into a stud, then they could have an exceptionally formidable line up.

 

Centerfield is an issue, however if the offense were solid in the middle of the order, the Sox would have the luxury of opting for a good defensive center fielder with an average bat, which is much easier to find.

 

They have the number 3 draft choice to add to the mix, and that player may also be ready to contribute by 2015.

If they can add Abreu, and keep the payroll under control, next year could be devoted to discovering what they have in young guys like Garcia, Semien, E. Johnson, and this year's draft choice. Then there are the very young guys, further back in the pipeline, like Hawkins and Tim Anderson. Even guys like Viciedo and Gillaspie might reveal much more about their true value after one more season.

 

For my part, I would be very content to patiently wait one more year, providing that there were a plan with some realistic hope of competing in 2015. Wouldn't you?

 

We're not adding Conor Jackson or Grady Sizemore?

 

Just joking.

 

In all seriousness, I'm sure this is probably close to the line of thinking right now at 35th/Shields.

 

Can they afford to NOT trade Santiago or possibly Quintana in order to get one more bat for their line-up...to wait it out for one more year? Or are they risking injury setbacks/non-performance from Santiago and Quintana by not trading them soon rather than later?

 

What are the pros and cons of holding onto DeAza for one more season?

 

Do Gillaspie, Viciedo and Beckham merit another full season of investment in terms of patiently waiting for returns/development?

If not with Gordon, it makes all these sense in the world for Semien to theoretically be a 2nd year player in 2015.

 

Are they content to leave Keppinger in his ideal utility role or are they going to bring back the Gillaspie/Kepp platoon we were slated to start the season with....?

 

Is Abreu the real deal, and worth tying Hahn's future to as the GM as his signature signing?

 

What in God's name are they going to do about the catching position?

 

Does the bullpen even matter if they're not going to compete until 2015? What are the pluses and minuses of dealing Addison Reed? Does he have any more value (let's hope so) than Sergio Santos after two seasons?

 

 

 

 

 

[Boopa1219]

I would like to see the Sox take their lumps for a few more years as they rebuild the team, and in doing so they'll accumulate high draft picks.

 

I think Rick Hahn did a wonderful job at the trade deadline by landing a player like Garcia, who I think is going to be an all-star caliber player for years to come. And more importantly he shed tons and tons of payroll, granting the Sox major financial flexibility and room to operate. With this money I would like to see Rick Hahn completely overhaul the scouting department, by luring away top scouts from other teams, like the Dodgers for example. And most importantly I want to see this money go to amateur talent, whether its the draft or LA.

 

The Sox could potentially land an impact prospect with the number 3 pick in the draft (Here's to you Jacob Gatewood), look at what Theo has been able to accomplish on the North Side in just a short amount of time. Since he became the President of the Cubs they have acquired guys like Albert Almora, Jorge Soler, Kris Bryant, Eloy Jimenez, and they traded for a guy like Anthony Rizzo. Maybe the Sox, should take notes.

[southsider2k5]

I would like to see the Sox take their lumps for a few more years as they rebuild the team, and in doing so they'll accumulate high draft picks.

 

I think Rick Hahn did a wonderful job at the trade deadline by landing a player like Garcia, who I think is going to be an all-star caliber player for years to come. And more importantly he shed tons and tons of payroll, granting the Sox major financial flexibility and room to operate. With this money I would like to see Rick Hahn completely overhaul the scouting department, by luring away top scouts from other teams, like the Dodgers for example. And most importantly I want to see this money go to amateur talent, whether its the draft or LA.

 

The Sox could potentially land an impact prospect with the number 3 pick in the draft (Here's to you Jacob Gatewood), look at what Theo has been able to accomplish on the North Side in just a short amount of time. Since he became the President of the Cubs they have acquired guys like Albert Almora, Jorge Soler, Kris Bryant, Eloy Jimenez, and they traded for a guy like Anthony Rizzo. Maybe the Sox, should take notes.

 

it is worth noting that exactly one of the guys who you highlighted is at the major league level, and that one guy took a big step back this year.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Why not target 2015 as the first year to really compete?

Under that scenario, the big piece is Abreu, because he is young enough to be a factor in 2015 and beyond.

The young pitching will still be affordable in 2015 and if the Sox don't commit to any more long term contracts, and with Dunn gone, they could then use the funds saved to fill in the missing pieces in free agency, after next season.

 

I think that the key is to retain the young pitching, and spend the next season trying to assemble a formidable middle of the order, which is where this team has the biggest hole. Konerko and Dunn were terrible as 3 and 4 hitters. If Garcia and Abreu can replace them, and one other bat, can emerge or be acquired in free agency, the supporting players would not be that hard to find. That third middle of the order hitter should be left handed, and bat between Garcia and Abreu. If Viciedo develops into a stud, then they could have an exceptionally formidable line up.

 

Centerfield is an issue, however if the offense were solid in the middle of the order, the Sox would have the luxury of opting for a good defensive center fielder with an average bat, which is much easier to find.

 

They have the number 3 draft choice to add to the mix, and that player may also be ready to contribute by 2015.

If they can add Abreu, and keep the payroll under control, next year could be devoted to discovering what they have in young guys like Garcia, Semien, E. Johnson, and this year's draft choice. Then there are the very young guys, further back in the pipeline, like Hawkins and Tim Anderson. Even guys like Viciedo and Gillaspie might reveal much more about their true value after one more season.

 

For my part, I would be very content to patiently wait one more year, providing that there were a plan with some realistic hope of competing in 2015. Wouldn't you?

 

Thing is the market for catchers in 2015 blows so if McCann and Salty are out there this offseason they should try and sign one of those guys.

 

As you said Abreu, and to a lesser extent Hart or Morales, makes a ton of sense this offseason as well.

 

With the potential guys out there this year compared to next year it makes sense to go for it this year.