How Should Rick Hahn Fix The White Sox

[Dick Allen]

After reading all of your comments, and thinking more about what Hahn should do, I think this "retool" should be a two year project.

I would trade Alexei and de Aza, for prospects, if there is any market for them.

I would retain all of the young pitching, including Santiago.

Abreu is still my unquestionable #1 target.

Gamble on a cheap, one year deal for Sizemore, who will be looking to re-establish his value:

 

Here is my lineup:

 

SS Semien

2B Beckham

RF Garcia

CF Sizemore

1B Abreu

DH Dunn

LF Viciedo

3B Gillaspie/platooned with a rh hitter

C Phegley/Flowers competition

 

That gets them to 2015, when they can evaluate the development of the young core of Semien, Garcia, Abreu, Viciedo, Gillaspie and whoever catches. Then, with plenty of payroll flexibility still left, they can decide if they have any other holes to fill besides Sizemore and Dunn, whose contracts would be finished.

 

They would have a better idea of how to evaluate the pitching staff, after a year of the young starters, Santiago, Johnson, as well as a better idea of well Danks has recovered.

 

It also gives them one more year to gauge the potential of some of the very young talent like Hawkins, T. Anderson, Micah Johnson and whoever is selected #3 in this years draft.

 

With continued payroll flexibility, and a few youngsters emerging as solid players, the Sox should be able to fill the remaining holes and put a very competitive team on the field in 2015.

I know you really have a thing for Grady Sizemore, and at one time he was a great player, but it would be a Festivus miracle if he is ever good enough to bat clean up in a line up anymore. He has missed 2 seasons and its been 4 years since he has hit .230 or had an OBP of .300.

[witesoxfan]

I know you really have a thing for Grady Sizemore, and at one time he was a great player, but it would be a Festivus miracle if he is ever good enough to bat clean up in a line up anymore. He has missed 2 seasons and its been 4 years since he has hit .230 or had an OBP of .300.

 

I don't want to say players are or are not doing anything, but Sizemore's career reflects the stereotypical PED user's career.

[Lillian]

If Sizemore was a PED user, I wouldn't want him either. However, if he was not, then we will all just have to wait and see if he can still play at age 31. It just seems like a decent gamble for one year, on a cheap contract.

 

If you don't sign him, then the Sox will have to find a center fielder and a left handed, middle of the order hitter.

I suspect that would be two expensive signings. Granderson is not the solution, and will cost too much money.

 

If he can be signed cheaply, and plays well, he could be traded at the deadline for prospects. If he flops, he'd likely cost very little.

The Sox are not going to contend next year, and it just doesn't make sense to spend all that payroll flexibility on people like, Ellsbury, Choo, or Granderson.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Lillian

[witesoxfan]

I hate when people talk in absolutes. The Sox PROBABLY won't contend next year. Can we seriously qualify these statements?

 

With what the Red Sox and Indians did this year, and the Tigers, Rays, Orioles, Pirates, DBacks, Padres, Giants, A's, and WHITE SOX have done in recent years (just to name a few), it's completely stupid to say "they will not compete." That's total BS.

[Lillian]

I hate when people talk in absolutes. The Sox PROBABLY won't contend next year. Can we seriously qualify these statements?

 

With what the Red Sox and Indians did this year, and the Tigers, Rays, Orioles, Pirates, DBacks, Padres, Giants, A's, and WHITE SOX have done in recent years (just to name a few), it's completely stupid to say "they will not compete." That's total BS.

 

You are "absolutely" right. I'll rephrase it; the Sox are unlikely to contend in 2014.

[witesoxfan]

You are "absolutely" right. I'll rephrase it; the Sox are unlikely to contend in 2014.

 

Like I said, I do agree because I think they're too far away, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. I just get tired (not specifically of yours, yours just so happened to set it off) of people saying they will not contend.

[Lillian]

Josh Hamilton missed 3 consecutive seasons, while dealing with alcohol and drug abuse, and then only played half of his first season back, and he tore up the League, when he did. Isn't is feasible for a guy to come back after missing extensive playing time, if he is healthy and in good shape? I read where Sizemore will likely sign a minor league contract. What is the risk?

[Kyyle23]

Josh Hamilton missed 3 consecutive seasons, while dealing with alcohol and drug abuse, and then only played half of his first season back, and he tore up the League, when he did. Isn't is feasible for a guy to come back after missing extensive playing time, if he is healthy and in good shape? I read where Sizemore will likely sign a minor league contract. What is the risk?

 

Dealing with drug and alcohol abuse is not the same as dealing with a recurring injury issue with your knees. Plus, their ages were not the same.

[witesoxfan]

Yeah, Josh Hamilton was 26 when he came back. Sizemore turns 32 next year and hasn't played since 2011. Regarding the risk, there'd be no risk bringing Frank Thomas into camp either, but that doesn't make it smart. I mean, maybe he Lew Fords it and makes his way back, but I strongly doubt that will be the case

[Lillian]

Dealing with drug and alcohol abuse is not the same as dealing with a recurring injury issue with your knees. Plus, their ages were not the same.

 

Yes, however the point is that a player can be away from the game and come back, providing he is healthy.

[Dick Allen]

Yes, however the point is that a player can be away from the game and come back, providing he is healthy.

I think it helps if you are younger, and Sizemore has been a physical wreck for over 4 years. What really are the odds he would be healthy enough to become a big contributor on a team at this point? I'd sign him to a minor league make good, no risk contract for sure, but to actually count on him for production is not realistic.

[Eminor3rd]

Josh Hamilton missed 3 consecutive seasons, while dealing with alcohol and drug abuse, and then only played half of his first season back, and he tore up the League, when he did. Isn't is feasible for a guy to come back after missing extensive playing time, if he is healthy and in good shape? I read where Sizemore will likely sign a minor league contract. What is the risk?

 

There's a difference between something that's possible and something that you gamble millions of dollars on. One example of something working out against the odds does not serve as a practical reason to expect things to continue to happen against the odds.

[Lillian]

There's a difference between something that's possible and something that you gamble millions of dollars on. One example of something working out against the odds does not serve as a practical reason to expect things to continue to happen against the odds.

 

It would only be a reasonable gamble if he signs a cheap one year contract, with the intention of re-establishing his value. That was my assumption. I agree that it wouldn't be worth gambling a lot of money on his comeback.

It makes sense to me because of the following:

 

1) He plays a position at which the Sox have no prospects, whom he would be blocking.

2) He is a left handed bat, with pop

3) He will require only a one year contract

4) He would be cheap

5) He could be a trade candidate for prospects at the deadline, if the Sox were not in contention.

 

If Viciedo, Garcia and a hoped for acquisition, Abreu were to all have good years Sizemore could at least provide enough of a left handed presence to balance the lineup, and keep Dunn out of the middle of the order.

Moreover, all of the other suggestions would just be too expensive, considering this team is probably not yet ready to contend. I'd rather wait a year and see where the holes are, which need to be filled, after 2014.

[knightni]

After reading all of your comments, and thinking more about what Hahn should do, I think this "retool" should be a two year project.

I would trade Alexei and de Aza, for prospects, if there is any market for them.

I would retain all of the young pitching, including Santiago.

Abreu is still my unquestionable #1 target.

Gamble on a cheap, one year deal for Sizemore, who will be looking to re-establish his value:

 

Here is my lineup:

 

SS Semien

2B Beckham

RF Garcia

CF Sizemore

1B Abreu

DH Dunn

LF Viciedo

3B Gillaspie/platooned with a rh hitter

C Phegley/Flowers competition

 

That gets them to 2015, when they can evaluate the development of the young core of Semien, Garcia, Abreu, Viciedo, Gillaspie and whoever catches. Then, with plenty of payroll flexibility still left, they can decide if they have any other holes to fill besides Sizemore and Dunn, whose contracts would be finished.

 

They would have a better idea of how to evaluate the pitching staff, after a year of the young starters, Santiago, Johnson, as well as a better idea of well Danks has recovered.

 

It also gives them one more year to gauge the potential of some of the very young talent like Hawkins, T. Anderson, Micah Johnson and whoever is selected #3 in this years draft.

 

With continued payroll flexibility, and a few youngsters emerging as solid players, the Sox should be able to fill the remaining holes and put a very competitive team on the field in 2015.

 

Leury Garcia SS, Semien 3B is more likely.

[southsider2k5]

It would only be a reasonable gamble if he signs a cheap one year contract, with the intention of re-establishing his value. That was my assumption. I agree that it wouldn't be worth gambling a lot of money on his comeback.

It makes sense to me because of the following:

 

1) He plays a position at which the Sox have no prospects, whom he would be blocking.

2) He is a left handed bat, with pop

3) He will require only a one year contract

4) He would be cheap

5) He could be a trade candidate for prospects at the deadline, if the Sox were not in contention.

 

If Viciedo, Garcia and a hoped for acquisition, Abreu were to all have good years Sizemore could at least provide enough of a left handed presence to balance the lineup, and keep Dunn out of the middle of the order.

Moreover, all of the other suggestions would just be too expensive, considering this team is probably not yet ready to contend. I'd rather wait a year and see where the holes are, which need to be filled, after 2014.

 

The only contract I would be willing to sign Grady Sizemore to is a minor league deal, with an invite to spring training, with a team option major league contract at the minimum and filled with some incentives based on games played and ABs. He'd also have to know that the guys on the team now are ahead of him, and he would have to prove himself healthy to break camp as a back up.

[knightni]

Sizemore's knees are probably in their 40s, health-wise.

[Lillian]

Are these suggestions that Sizemore's knees are shot, based upon anything that has been reported, or is this just speculation? Look, if you guys are correct, and he can't play because he is permanently impaired, then of course it would make no sense. I'm sure that he will be well examined by any team that considers signing him.

 

What I had read is that he was taking his time to be sure that he was completely healthy. I have not seen any reports saying that he will not be able to run well, much less, play center.

 

Who else is out there who could be a stop gap center fielder? I mean someone who can provide solid defense.

The best in house guy is probably Jordan Danks.

I would hope that longer term, Thompson, or Hawkins will be able to fill that need.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Lillian

[southsider2k5]

Are these suggestions that Sizemore's knees are shot, based upon anything that has been reported, or is this just speculation. Look, if you guys are correct, and he can't play because he is permanently impaired, then of course it would make no sense. I'm sure that he will be well examined by any team that considers signing him.

 

What I had read is that he was taking his time to be sure that he was completely healthy. I have not seen any reports saying that he will not be able to run well, much less, play center.

 

Who else is out there who could be a stop gap center fielder? I mean someone who can provide solid defense.

The best in house guy is probably Jordan Danks.

I would hope that longer term, Thompson, or Hawkins will be able to fill that need.

 

The guy hasn't played since 2011. Look at his injury history

 

This is from his wiki page.

 

2010 season

 

After playing in 33 games, Sizemore's season ended after microfracture surgery was performed on his left knee.[16]

2011 season

 

Sizemore returned to the Cleveland Indians from his microfracture surgery, after rehabilitating with Triple-A Columbus Clippers, on April 17, 2011. Sizemore went 2-for-4 with a double and home run. The Indians won the game 4–2. Sizemore returned to the disabled list in May with a right knee contusion after sliding into a base. In mid-July, Sizemore was again placed on the disabled list following another injury to his right knee; shortly afterwards, he had a second sports hernia surgery, expected to sideline him into September.[17] Through 2011, he had the third-best career fielding percentage of all major league outfielders (.9935), behind Shane Victorino and Ryan Braun.[18] The Indians declined Sizemore's 2012 contract option.[19]

2012 season

 

After meeting with both the Boston Red Sox and Seattle Mariners during the offseason, Sizemore re-signed with Cleveland, signing a one-year, $5 million contract.[20] Sizemore underwent back surgery during Spring Training, and began the season on the 60-day disabled list. A series of setbacks in his recovery from back and knee surgeries prevented him from appearing in any games during the season.[21] Sizemore had microfracture surgery on his right knee in September, after a previous arthroscopic procedure in 2011 was unsuccessful in healing his ailing knee. [22]

2013 season

 

Grady Sizemore remains a free agent at the outset of the 2013 MLB season. According to his agent, Joe Urbon, Sizemore does not want to commit to a team until he is ready to play again, which may not be until midseason, at the earliest.[23]

[Eminor3rd]

Are these suggestions that Sizemore's knees are shot, based upon anything that has been reported, or is this just speculation? Look, if you guys are correct, and he can't play because he is permanently impaired, then of course it would make no sense. I'm sure that he will be well examined by any team that considers signing him.

 

What I had read is that he was taking his time to be sure that he was completely healthy. I have not seen any reports saying that he will not be able to run well, much less, play center.

 

Who else is out there who could be a stop gap center fielder? I mean someone who can provide solid defense.

The best in house guy is probably Jordan Danks.

I would hope that longer term, Thompson, or Hawkins will be able to fill that need.

 

If he could play, he'd be under contract with the Indians.

[Balta1701]

If he could play, he'd be under contract with the Indians.

That doesn't seem right at all, he's had at least 4+ seasons since he became arbitration-eligible according to B-R. Even counting the time spent on the DL he was a full free agent in 2011 but signed with the Indians for a decreased amount in 2012. he then got $5 million to rehab and play 0 games in 2012.

 

I don't know if they're somehow allowed to make him the $13 million qualifying offer but I can't imagine they would.

[greg775]

There's no reason to waste this starting pitching any longer.

 

Hahn has to take a chance with some money. I've become convinced we're not going to win with BOTH Viciedo and DeAza in the everyday lineup. So Hahn has to spend some money and get Grandy and dump DeAza in a minor trade. Or keep DeAza as fourth outfielder and dump Jordan Danks in a minor trade.

We also NEED to sign a catcher if we are serious about winning anything. Spend the money.

And we need to replace Beckham and Kepp/Gillaspie (3B). Semien takes over for Beckham and WE GOT to find somebody for 3B.

 

The current everyday lineup means another 95-100 loss season no matter who we have pitching. These guys are THAT BAD.

 

That's it for changes for now. That would be a reasonable attempt at trying to match our pitching with a lineup possibly capable of contending. Considering all it will take is some money, give it a shot, Mr. hahn.

Edited October 10, 2013 by greg775

[Eminor3rd]

That doesn't seem right at all, he's had at least 4+ seasons since he became arbitration-eligible according to B-R. Even counting the time spent on the DL he was a full free agent in 2011 but signed with the Indians for a decreased amount in 2012. he then got $5 million to rehab and play 0 games in 2012.

 

I don't know if they're somehow allowed to make him the $13 million qualifying offer but I can't imagine they would.

 

That's what I'm saying. They have better info than anyone, and they aren't even offering him a minor league dea despite showing no indication of "giving up on him." He's unemployed.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Eminor3rd

[mataipaepae]

There's no reason to waste this starting pitching any longer.

 

Hahn has to take a chance with some money. I've become convinced we're not going to win with BOTH Viciedo and DeAza in the everyday lineup. So Hahn has to spend some money and get Grandy and dump DeAza in a minor trade. Or keep DeAza as fourth outfielder and dump Jordan Danks in a minor trade.

We also NEED to sign a catcher if we are serious about winning anything. Spend the money.

And we need to replace Beckham and Kepp/Gillaspie (3B). Semien takes over for Beckham and WE GOT to find somebody for 3B.

 

The current everyday lineup means another 95-100 loss season no matter who we have pitching. These guys are THAT BAD.

 

That's it for changes for now. That would be a reasonable attempt at trying to match our pitching with a lineup possibly capable of contending. Considering all it will take is some money, give it a shot, Mr. hahn.

I honestly wouldn't mind seeing leury garcia at 2nd and semien at 3rd. both play good defense. and semien I believe will be a good hitter too. he has shown power in the minor leagues and might be able to continue it to the next level.

 

get abreu in here to play 1st.

[Dick Allen]

Are these suggestions that Sizemore's knees are shot, based upon anything that has been reported, or is this just speculation? Look, if you guys are correct, and he can't play because he is permanently impaired, then of course it would make no sense. I'm sure that he will be well examined by any team that considers signing him.

 

What I had read is that he was taking his time to be sure that he was completely healthy. I have not seen any reports saying that he will not be able to run well, much less, play center.

 

Who else is out there who could be a stop gap center fielder? I mean someone who can provide solid defense.

The best in house guy is probably Jordan Danks.

I would hope that longer term, Thompson, or Hawkins will be able to fill that need.

One thing I read was he was going to have to move to a corner if he could come back. I don't know if is based on facts or speculation. Surgeries on both knees and a back problem would seem to slow him down a bit.

 

There just is nothing really out there about him other than Rosenthal saying he planned to play next season a couple of months ago.

[witesoxfan]

One thing I read was he was going to have to move to a corner if he could come back. I don't know if is based on facts or speculation. Surgeries on both knees and a back problem would seem to slow him down a bit.

 

There just is nothing really out there about him other than Rosenthal saying he planned to play next season a couple of months ago.

 

I plan on playing next year too