Sox to Make Hard Push for Granderson

[witesoxfan]

He was surprisingly ranked 12th and 14th in the league in walks in '11 and '12, so if he can put together a good year batting average wise than he'll put up a .350+ obp.

 

He's pretty much the OF version of Adam Dunn and as a Dunn supporter I'm cool with that. Disregarding this injury plagued season he's put up an ops over .800 vs RHP every year since '06, and with all the RHP within the division that type of bat could really come in handy.

 

His ops vs division opponents the last 3 years...

 

Cle- 1.099

Det- .909

KC- .969

Min- 1.172

 

As far as De Aza goes, I'm with a lot of other people here, I hope he's not just made the 4th OFer or traded for scraps. He SHOULD have some value.

 

As with looking at his numbers last year and using them as justice to not sign him is wrong, looking at the bolded numbers and using it as justice to sign him is also wrong. Consider the sample sizes in those scenarios.

[2nd_city_saint787]

As with looking at his numbers last year and using them as justice to not sign him is wrong, looking at the bolded numbers and using it as justice to sign him is also wrong. Consider the sample sizes in those scenarios.

 

It was still ~80 abs against each, but yeah, I debated not putting them in there for that reason but thought they were gaudy enough to throw it in there.

 

Moreso than those stats I think the .800+ ops vs RHP for 6 straight years is more of a "Justification" to sign him.

[witesoxfan]

It was still ~80 abs against each, but yeah, I debated not putting them in there for that reason but thought they were gaudy enough to throw it in there.

 

Moreso than those stats I think the .800+ ops vs RHP for 6 straight years is more of a "Justification" to sign him.

 

I agree

[2nd_city_saint787]

I just kinda hope it doesn't play out like the lineup bucket posted awhile ago where Dayan gets moved to 1B. A lot of "good" first basemen to be had in free agency and once again De Aza SHOULD have some kind of trade value. If they could sign Granderson and another "good" FA and then package De Aza+ and Santiago/Q+ in 2 separate deals for 2 more big league pieces then that should go a long way towards getting back to where they need to be.

[Eminor3rd]

I am wholeheartedly against this.

[southsider2k5]

Somewhere Phil Rodgers is screaming at his computer.

[Eminor3rd]

3 years at $12 to $15 million makes sense for the White Sox. They get a lefty power guy, and a guy at a "discount". I could see an off season consisting of that and Abreu for 1B as its main parts.

 

I just can't see them committing 5 years to a catcher, especially at that money.

 

Thing about McCann though is that you only need him to catch for a couple years. The 1B/DH spot is waiting and open for him after Dunn and Konerko leave. If he is able to catch longer, that's a bonus, but he's at least a complete hitter from the left side, I wouldn't mind him clogging up a corner for a few years considering what the alternatives are.

 

Granderson's numbers are starting to look a LOT like Dunn's are looking, and he's no longer really capable of playing CF. You'd need to stick him in RF, which pigeonholes Garcia in CF, where I've seen absolutely no indication that he is capable of playing there. He has the tools, sure, but his instincts in the OF are some of the worst I've seen in a long time. He'll get better with practice, but I'm not confident he'll get enough better to be a long-term CF.

[TaylorStSox]

The only reason to sign Granderson is if you can get a significant discount and flip him for prospects at the deadline.

[southsider2k5]

Thing about McCann though is that you only need him to catch for a couple years. The 1B/DH spot is waiting and open for him after Dunn and Konerko leave. If he is able to catch longer, that's a bonus, but he's at least a complete hitter from the left side, I wouldn't mind him clogging up a corner for a few years considering what the alternatives are.

 

Granderson's numbers are starting to look a LOT like Dunn's are looking, and he's no longer really capable of playing CF. You'd need to stick him in RF, which pigeonholes Garcia in CF, where I've seen absolutely no indication that he is capable of playing there. He has the tools, sure, but his instincts in the OF are some of the worst I've seen in a long time. He'll get better with practice, but I'm not confident he'll get enough better to be a long-term CF.

 

If 1B/DH is open for McCann, for 3 years or so, why wouldn't it be open for Granderson?

[Eminor3rd]

If 1B/DH is open for McCann, for 3 years or so, why wouldn't it be open for Granderson?

 

It would be, but McCann would be much better there. He's younger and a better hitter. Granderson, again, looks a lot like Dunn at the plate.

[Rowand44]

All depends on the price tag to me.

[witesoxfan]

All depends on the price tag to me.

 

I think this is the key. A 2 year, $20 million deal would be perfect. A 3 year, $45 million is too much and not worthwhile. Hell, a 1 year deal would be good too.

[southsider2k5]

It would be, but McCann would be much better there. He's younger and a better hitter. Granderson, again, looks a lot like Dunn at the plate.

 

McCann put up a line that looks like Conor Gillaspie in 2012. Even his bounce back year this year was the worst of McCann career since 2007. Granderson's year at least makes sense due to his wrist injuries. If you are willing to commit 5 years plus a lot of money to McCann, questions about McCann's direction are probably more valid, especially because catchers have more miles on them than OFs due. Odds are pretty good that McCann gets at least double, if not more, of the total dollars commitment than Granderson gets, and Granderson's deal would be shorter. There is a pretty good chance McCann is in his regression years right now.

[knightni]

Granderson LF, Viciedo 1B.

 

Tank single-handedly turned many long singles into stand-up doubles this past season. Easily allowing 25 or 30 more runners in scoring position than a decent LF.

 

3 yr 36 mil with health and offensive bonuses that could bring him up to 15 mil per.

[Eminor3rd]

McCann put up a line that looks like Conor Gillaspie in 2012. Even his bounce back year this year was the worst of McCann career since 2007. Granderson's year at least makes sense due to his wrist injuries. If you are willing to commit 5 years plus a lot of money to McCann, questions about McCann's direction are probably more valid, especially because catchers have more miles on them than OFs due. Odds are pretty good that McCann gets at least double, if not more, of the total dollars commitment than Granderson gets, and Granderson's deal would be shorter. There is a pretty good chance McCann is in his regression years right now.

 

McCann is three years younger, and just put up a 122 wRC+, which is in line with his career numbers minus his one down year, off of a .261 BABIP, which is substantially lower than his career standard. If he can repeat this year with a normalized BABIP, we're talking about something in the neighborhood of ~.270/~.350./~470, which is just so much better than what Granderson is likely top put up, especially on a team that is starving for OBP. Add to this that McCann should be able to play C for at least a couple years -- filling a huge hole for us rather than creating a logjam.

 

Granderson's latest injuries were HBP injries, yes, but they were also wrist injuries, which have a track record of permanently sapping power from guys in many cases. Flukes they may be, but flukes that often come with real costs.

 

You're right though, it all comes down to price. But I'd be just fine giving 29 year old McCann 5 years if the alternative was giving 32 year old Granderson 3 or 4.

[witesoxfan]

Granderson LF, Viciedo 1B.

 

Tank single-handedly turned many long singles into stand-up doubles this past season. Easily allowing 25 or 30 more runners in scoring position than a decent LF.

 

3 yr 36 mil with health and offensive bonuses that could bring him up to 15 mil per.

 

If nothing else, this is reason to keep De Aza, not signing a 32 year old outfielder for 3 years. You sign Granderson in hopes of him putting up .250/.330/.470 with 30 homers, 20-30 steals at an effective rate, and reasonably good defense in LF or CF

[southsider2k5]

McCann is three years younger, and just put up a 122 wRC+, which is in line with his career numbers minus his one down year, off of a .261 BABIP, which is substantially lower than his career standard. If he can repeat this year with a normalized BABIP, we're talking about something in the neighborhood of ~.270/~.350./~470, which is just so much better than what Granderson is likely top put up, especially on a team that is starving for OBP. Add to this that McCann should be able to play C for at least a couple years -- filling a huge hole for us rather than creating a logjam.

 

Granderson's latest injuries were HBP injries, yes, but they were also wrist injuries, which have a track record of permanently sapping power from guys in many cases. Flukes they may be, but flukes that often come with real costs.

 

You're right though, it all comes down to price. But I'd be just fine giving 29 year old McCann 5 years if the alternative was giving 32 year old Granderson 3 or 4.

 

McCann is a 29 year old catcher. There is a big difference between that and anything else at 29 years old. If he isn't catching, his value drops a ton if he goes to 1B or DH. That is especially important when you are talking about a guy that played 102 games this year, and hasn't played 130 in the last 3 years. It isn't like we are talking about a guy who has AJ's durability here.

 

In all honesty, I would rather give AJ a one year deal than to give McCann 5.

 

[Eminor3rd]

McCann is a 29 year old catcher. There is a big difference between that and anything else at 29 years old. If he isn't catching, his value drops a ton if he goes to 1B or DH. That is especially important when you are talking about a guy that played 102 games this year, and hasn't played 130 in the last 3 years. It isn't like we are talking about a guy who has AJ's durability here.

 

In all honesty, I would rather give AJ a one year deal than to give McCann 5.

 

His absolute value drops, yes, but his value to an organization with literally nothing serviceable at those positions is much higher.

[2nd_city_saint787]

When talking DH I'd rather have Granderson over McCann.

 

2010-2012 stats

 

Granderson- .247/.337/.506

McCann- .252/.329/.441

 

 

[Leonard Zelig]

Should MLB teams really consider where a player grew up when putting together their rosters?

[witesoxfan]

Should MLB teams really consider where a player grew up when putting together their rosters?

 

From a marketing perspective, it doesn't hurt. Hometown boy comes home to play.

[Eminor3rd]

When talking DH I'd rather have Granderson over McCann.

 

2010-2012 stats

 

Granderson- .247/.337/.506

McCann- .252/.329/.441

 

McCann's 2012 was a shoulder surgery season and is way out line with his other career numbers. That' simportant information, but his 2013 proved that he has bounced back. Granderson is older and very clearly declining, and if he signed hium, we'd be the team gambling on his ability to return to form after injury.

[witesoxfan]

McCann's 2012 was a shoulder surgery season and is way out line with his other career numbers. That' simportant information, but his 2013 proved that he has bounced back. Granderson is older and very clearly declining, and if he signed hium, we'd be the team gambling on his ability to return to form after injury.

 

I think it's all relative though. Granderson's year was cut short by flukey injuries that, as you pointed out, could have terrible repercussions, but at the same time, maybe not. I don't want Granderson for 3 years and I don't want McCann for 5 years. But if you can sign Granderson for 2/$20 and McCann 4/$60, I'd sign both of them. You should still have enough left over for Abreu on top of that too.

[southsider2k5]

McCann's 2012 was a shoulder surgery season and is way out line with his other career numbers. That' simportant information, but his 2013 proved that he has bounced back. Granderson is older and very clearly declining, and if he signed hium, we'd be the team gambling on his ability to return to form after injury.

 

Except he didn't bounce back to his career norms. If you throw out 2012 as an aberration, you still have 4 straight years of OPS drops since his career high of 2008. WAR and oWar have also been on a pretty steady decline. dWar was 0.1 from a career low. BA, SLG, OPB are also on a steady decline. No reason to think these trends won't continue, and probably they will accelerate.

[TaylorStSox]

Except he didn't bounce back to his career norms. If you throw out 2012 as an aberration, you still have 4 straight years of OPS drops since his career high of 2008. WAR and oWar have also been on a pretty steady decline. dWar was 0.1 from a career low. BA, SLG, OPB are also on a steady decline. No reason to think these trends won't continue, and probably they will accelerate.

How much of that is in line with league wide drops in offensive production? I'm not an advocate of signing him. Just sayin...