Sox to Make Hard Push for Granderson

[witesoxfan]

And now I feel like an idiot for misspelling. Still, here's the definition

 

ab·er·ra·tion/ˌæbəˈreɪʃən/ Show Spelled [ab-uh-rey-shuhn] Show IPA

noun

1. the act of departing from the right, normal, or usual course.

2. the act of deviating from the ordinary, usual, or normal type.

3. deviation from truth or moral rectitude.

4. mental irregularity or disorder, especially of a minor or temporary nature; lapse from a sound mental state.

5. Astronomy . apparent displacement of a heavenly body, owing to the motion of the earth in its orbit.

 

 

Now, here are Adam Dunn's OPS's from year to year

 

.948

.854

.819

.956

.927

.855

.940

.898

.928

.892

.569

.800

.762

 

You tell me Dick, do any of those look like they depart or deviate from the norm?

[Dick Allen]

And now I feel like an idiot for misspelling. Still, here's the definition

 

ab·er·ra·tion/ˌæbəˈreɪʃən/ Show Spelled [ab-uh-rey-shuhn] Show IPA

noun

1. the act of departing from the right, normal, or usual course.

2. the act of deviating from the ordinary, usual, or normal type.

3. deviation from truth or moral rectitude.

4. mental irregularity or disorder, especially of a minor or temporary nature; lapse from a sound mental state.

5. Astronomy . apparent displacement of a heavenly body, owing to the motion of the earth in its orbit.

 

 

Now, here are Adam Dunn's OPS's from year to year

 

.948

.854

.819

.956

.927

.855

.940

.898

.928

.892

.569

.800

.762

 

You tell me Dick, do any of those look like they depart or deviate from the norm?

 

Each of the past 2 seasons, he has been 2011 awful or close to it for 3 months out of 6. So he has been just as awful the last 2 seasons as he was in 2011 half the time. So even the past 2 seasons, his complete aberration has been just as typical of a performance as the "good" Adam Dunn. In fact his last 2 seasons look like an aberration if you look at the first 10 or 11.

 

I hope he is the June, July, August of 2013 Adam Dunn next year, but chances are, for at least half of next season, just like in 2012 and 2013, he will perform just like the performance you call a complete aberration.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Dick Allen

[Eminor3rd]

Each of the past 2 seasons, he has been 2011 awful or close to it for 3 months out of 6. So he has been just as awful the last 2 seasons as he was in 2011 half the time. In fact his last 2 seasons look like an aberation if you look at the first 10 or 11.

 

I hope he is the June, July, August of 2013 Adam Dunn next year, but chances are, for at least half of next season, just like in 2012 and 2013, he will perform just like the performance you call a complete aberration.

 

It's a common fallacy to assume that events are evenly distributed. The fact is, Adam Dunn's seasons are not unlike any other players' seasons in that they are composed of hot streaks and cold streaks that end up averaging into his end of the season lines. He may be streakier than average, but pointing out his cold stretches does nothing to explain his 2011.

 

Your argument is evidence that he's declining. His 2011 was a complete meltdown. The fact that his last two seasons have been substantially better than his 2011 is the best argument that 2011 was a "complete aberration." If 2011 was his true talent level, than his season averages would be looking like 2011, regardless of hot and cold streaks.

 

That doesn't mean you have to think he's good, but I'm not sure there's really any rational argument against the notion that his 2011 was an aberration.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Eminor3rd

[southsider2k5]

Steve Stone thinks Danks will add 2-4 MPH on his fastball in 2014 and be a much better pitcher. Might be right. If Dodgers believe that, then he is very tradable. Ethier would help. He certainly is a better player than Dunn, and all you guys loved it when we signed him for 4 years for about the same $$ Ethier is due thru 2017. Ethier would help the Sox. Maybe Hahn can get more from LA, especially if they sign Cano. If Danks has another bad year in 2014, then he will have no value for rest of his contract. Hahn should find out what kind of value he has now.

 

Adding velocity the second year after that surgery is pretty normal.

[southsider2k5]

And now I feel like an idiot for misspelling. Still, here's the definition

 

ab·er·ra·tion/ˌæbəˈreɪʃən/ Show Spelled [ab-uh-rey-shuhn] Show IPA

noun

1. the act of departing from the right, normal, or usual course.

2. the act of deviating from the ordinary, usual, or normal type.

3. deviation from truth or moral rectitude.

4. mental irregularity or disorder, especially of a minor or temporary nature; lapse from a sound mental state.

5. Astronomy . apparent displacement of a heavenly body, owing to the motion of the earth in its orbit.

 

 

Now, here are Adam Dunn's OPS's from year to year

 

.948

.854

.819

.956

.927

.855

.940

.898

.928

.892

.569

.800

.762

 

You tell me Dick, do any of those look like they depart or deviate from the norm?

 

This thread was over at this point.

 

[witesoxfan]

Each of the past 2 seasons, he has been 2011 awful or close to it for 3 months out of 6. So he has been just as awful the last 2 seasons as he was in 2011 half the time. So even the past 2 seasons, his complete aberration has been just as typical of a performance as the "good" Adam Dunn. In fact his last 2 seasons look like an aberration if you look at the first 10 or 11.

 

I hope he is the June, July, August of 2013 Adam Dunn next year, but chances are, for at least half of next season, just like in 2012 and 2013, he will perform just like the performance you call a complete aberration.

 

MOVING THE GOALPOSTS

 

I'm not debating whether or not Adam Dunn is a streaky player. I'm not debating anything. I'm telling you, and you are disputing what is, to this point in time, a fact - Adam Dunn's 2011 is an aberration. Are you really disputing the FACT that Adam Dunn has never once in his career posted anything close over the course of a full season to the .569 OPS he put up in 2011?

 

Quit arguing just to argue. You are attempting to make an argument against concrete being hard.

[Dick Allen]

It's a common fallacy to assume that events are evenly distributed. The fact is, Adam Dunn's seasons are not unlike any other players' seasons in that they are composed of hot streaks and cold streaks that end up averaging into his end of the season lines. He may be streakier than average, but pointing out his cold stretches does nothing to explain his 2011.

 

Your argument is evidence that he's declining. His 2011 was a complete meltdown. The fact that his last two seasons have been substantially better than his 2011 is the best argument that 2011 was a "complete aberration." If 2011 was his true talent level, than his season averages would be looking like 2011, regardless of hot and cold streaks.

 

That doesn't mean you have to think he's good, but I'm not sure there's really any rational argument against the notion that his 2011 was an aberration.

2011 was a sign of decline as well. He still doesn't have a .200 average in a White Sox uniform, the advanced metrics article I read pointed out that his 40 homer 2012 was the second least productive 40 homer season in history. Granted even the least productive 40 homer seasons still provide value.

Look at his numbers June 1, 2013, It was like 2011 all over again. And his September was one for the books. Even when people are satisified with Adam Dunn, he is just as bad as he was in 2011 for half the year. He goes bad for months at a time. He had crazy monthly splits. He was either an All Star or a guy that should be selling beer in the stands. The only aberration was that in 2011 it lasted the entire season. The performance that occured then is not a complete aberration. It still occurs just as often as when he is productive.

[Jerksticks]

2011 was a sign of decline as well. He still doesn't have a .200 average in a White Sox uniform, the advanced metrics article I read pointed out that his 40 homer 2012 was the second least productive 40 homer season in history. Granted even the least productive 40 homer seasons still provide value.

Look at his numbers June 1, 2013, It was like 2011 all over again. And his September was one for the books. Even when people are satisified with Adam Dunn, he is just as bad as he was in 2011 for half the year. He goes bad for months at a time. He had crazy monthly splits. He was either an All Star or a guy that should be selling beer in the stands. The only aberration was that in 2011 it lasted the entire season. The performance that occured then is not a complete aberration. It still occurs just as often as when he is productive.

Yes. The aberration of his stats during his time with the White Sox, which is all that could possibly matter here, is the hot streak. The guy can't hit- I can't believe people still want to argue that his 40 HRs helped more than his 500 worthless PA hurt....from our 3 hole...Mercy.

[Dick Allen]

MOVING THE GOALPOSTS

 

I'm not debating whether or not Adam Dunn is a streaky player. I'm not debating anything. I'm telling you, and you are disputing what is, to this point in time, a fact - Adam Dunn's 2011 is an aberration. Are you really disputing the FACT that Adam Dunn has never once in his career posted anything close over the course of a full season to the .569 OPS he put up in 2011?

 

Quit arguing just to argue. You are attempting to make an argument against concrete being hard.

All I am pointing out is that the performance you call a "complete aberration" is the same type of performance Adam has provided in prolong stretches the last 2 years.

 

The only goalposts that have been move are people defending his performance, basing most of it off of 2011. If you wantto base it off of the rest of his career, his 2012 and 2013 also sucked.

 

I am not a Dunn hater by any stretch. He does hustle, and seems like a good teammate, but his performance in each year he has been in a White Sox uniform has been less than was expected when he signed his contract.

[Rowand44]

I am not a Dunn hater by any stretch. He does hustle, and seems like a good teammate, but his performance in each year he has been in a White Sox uniform has been less than was expected when he signed his contract.

And nobody is arguing that. You decided to argue that 2011 isn't a complete aberration when it clearly is, that's all Wite and I are saying.

[southsider2k5]

All I am pointing out is that the performance you call a "complete aberration" is the same type of performance Adam has provided in prolong stretches the last 2 years.

 

The only goalposts that have been move are people defending his performance, basing most of it off of 2011. If you wantto base it off of the rest of his career, his 2012 and 2013 also sucked.

 

I am not a Dunn hater by any stretch. He does hustle, and seems like a good teammate, but his performance in each year he has been in a White Sox uniform has been less than was expected when he signed his contract.

 

You are taking stretches out of context and turning them into seasons to make a comparison that isn't there. His 2011 season was an aberration. Looking at the rest of his seasonal totals tells you that. All hitters have stretches where they struggle, but that isn't what is being talked about here.

[Eminor3rd]

2011 was a sign of decline as well. He still doesn't have a .200 average in a White Sox uniform, the advanced metrics article I read pointed out that his 40 homer 2012 was the second least productive 40 homer season in history. Granted even the least productive 40 homer seasons still provide value.

Look at his numbers June 1, 2013, It was like 2011 all over again. And his September was one for the books. Even when people are satisified with Adam Dunn, he is just as bad as he was in 2011 for half the year. He goes bad for months at a time. He had crazy monthly splits. He was either an All Star or a guy that should be selling beer in the stands. The only aberration was that in 2011 it lasted the entire season. The performance that occured then is not a complete aberration. It still occurs just as often as when he is productive.

 

wat

Edited October 11, 2013 by Eminor3rd

[Dick Allen]

You are taking stretches out of context and turning them into seasons to make a comparison that isn't there. His 2011 season was an aberration. Looking at the rest of his seasonal totals tells you that. All hitters have stretches where they struggle, but that isn't what is being talked about here.

All hitters have stretches where they struggle. I understand that. And my original point was Dunn still plays at his 2011 level for long stretches, quite often. 2011 was historic how bad it was. I get that, but he still is capable of that type of performance for a good part of the season, which to me says it is not quite a complete aberration when discussing that particular level of play. He still gets there. It is exactly what I originally posted in post #151.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Dick Allen

[Eminor3rd]

All hitters have stretches where they struggle. I understand that. And my original point was Dunn still plays at his 2011 level for long stretches, quite often. 2011 was historic how bad it was. I get that, but he still is capable of that type of performance for a good part of the season, which to me says it is not quite a complete aberration when discussing that particular level of play. He still gets there. It is exactly what I originally posted in post #151.

 

Every year, Adam Dunn hits poorly, and hits well.

 

2011 was the ONLY YEAR where he only hit poorly and did not also hit well.

 

Therefore, Adam Dunn's 2011 was an aberration.

[Dick Allen]

Every year, Adam Dunn hits poorly, and hits well.

 

2011 was the ONLY YEAR where he only hit poorly and did not also hit well.

 

Therefore, Adam Dunn's 2011 was an aberration.

Which is what I posted in post 151 which started all of this. I said stretches and said I wouldn't call his 2011 a "complete aberration" because he still hits like that for long periods of time in each season since. I wasn't talking total season stats. I was talking the level of performance and not just for a week or two here and there. It is still quite prevalent. Example, through the first 36 games of 2013, he was hitting .133 with a .520 Ops. That is almost a quarter of the season.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Dick Allen

[Kyyle23]

so many gifs needed in this thread

[Eminor3rd]

Which is what I posted in post 151 which started all of this. I said stretches and said I wouldn't call his 2011 a "complete aberration" because he still hits like that for long periods of time in each season since. I wasn't talking total season stats. I was talking the level of performance and not just for a week or two here and there. It is still quite prevalent.

 

Yeah we've been arguing semantics for the last 500 pages. We clearly all agree on what you're claiming about Adam Dunn's skillset -- but we disagree on the definition of "aberration."

[witesoxfan]

Yeah we've been arguing semantics for the last 500 pages. We clearly all agree on what you're claiming about Adam Dunn's skillset -- but we disagree on the definition of "aberration."

 

Which I f***ing posted earlier in the thread, IT'S LITERALLY RIGHT UP THERE

[iamshack]

I think if you go back and look at Adam's monthly splits over the course of his career, you'll see some months where he was downright terrible. Just like he has been with the White Sox for several months. The difference is, the bad streaks are probably lasting longer or maybe even decrementally worse than before. That's decline due to age or diminishing skills or whatever. Not an aberration. It happens to all baseball players at some point, which essentially is the complete opposite of the definition of aberration.

 

As Eminor said, 2011 is the aberration in that there was virtually no stretch of games in which he hit well. That was an aberration because it was different than virtually every other year Dunn has played.

[southsider2k5]

All hitters have stretches where they struggle. I understand that. And my original point was Dunn still plays at his 2011 level for long stretches, quite often. 2011 was historic how bad it was. I get that, but he still is capable of that type of performance for a good part of the season, which to me says it is not quite a complete aberration when discussing that particular level of play. He still gets there. It is exactly what I originally posted in post #151.

 

streches /= year.

 

They are not the same thing.

[Jake]

2011 was totally different than any other year he's ever played. The things that were going wrong we just different. He simply wasn't hitting with power - he hit the right amount of fly balls, but they weren't getting out. Dunn's bad streaks this year often involved his BB rate going way down and a high groundball rate.

[Kyyle23]

One thing about Dunn his backers cannot deny: He's been immovable. His value to a baseball team is very low because nobody wants him.

 

yea this has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

[greg775]

yea this has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

 

I killed it, but I thought we were discussing Dunn's value suddenly.

[witesoxfan]

I don't think Dunn is immoveable or immobile, he runs the bases fairly easily when he hits home runs. He also puts his head down and sobs pretty well too on his way back to the dugout.

[Jerksticks]

I don't think Dunn is immoveable or immobile, he runs the bases fairly easily when he hits home runs. He also puts his head down and sobs pretty well too on his way back to the dugout.

Maybe the plan is to pray Tank fully turns the corner in LF next year and then slide him to DH forever once Dunn leaves, with him him hopefully becoming our BIg Papi. That's probably best case scenario for Tank and the Sox moving forward. Worst case scenario sure sucks to imagine, which is probably the reality of it all.