Sox to Make Hard Push for Granderson

[Dick Allen]

He waived his hands, healed Hanley, healed Greinke, and called up Puig.

 

And just to note...even if the Sox thought Ventura did everything he could have wrong this year...they don't like eating money on contracts unless they have to. You know that as well as I do.

99 losses because of the manager is a reason to eat what essentially is maybe half what Jeff Keppinger makes a season. If that.

[caulfield12]

As I have stated, better players can transform someone from an idiot to a genius. I would imagine Mattingly's baseball IQ and the way he went about his business wasn't much different from when they were losing to when they were almost unstoppable.

 

People put too much both good and bad on managers. I have even seen people judge managers on the team's record vs. it's pythagorean record. Did you know if you did that, Joe Maddon wouldn't be so highly thought of. This year was only the 2nd time out of his 8 seasons as a manager the team's actual record was better than it's pythagorean.

 

 

See Phil Rogers.

 

Ozzie and Gardenhire (until recent years) always had good results in this category...

 

 

If Greg775 was managing the team this year, I can't imagine they would have finished much worse. There would have been more fun and frivolity in the post-game quotes....we would have gone from Bill Self to Ozzie drinking beers in Applebee's to the death penalty.

 

I could have been the 1st base coach and thrown in random quotations from Malcolm Gladwell books, lol.

[caulfield12]

99 losses because of the manager is a reason to eat what essentially is maybe half what Jeff Keppinger makes a season. If that.

 

 

Balta's going off the deep end these days.

 

Must be that whole government shutdown thing.

 

Or maybe he's annoyed with the quite un-scientific Gravity movie, haha.

[caulfield12]

He waived his hands, healed Hanley, healed Greinke, and called up Puig.

 

And just to note...even if the Sox thought Ventura did everything he could have wrong this year...they don't like eating money on contracts unless they have to. You know that as well as I do.

 

 

Dammit, man...what's wrong with Jesus "What Happened to the Mint Value of My Donruss Rookie Card" Mattingly?

 

If only he had ALSO healed Matt Kemp and Josh Beckett, or at least kept him away from the KFC Bucket and a couple of six-packs....they would be on the verge of clinching the series already tonight.

Edited October 15, 2013 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

As I have stated, better players can transform someone from an idiot to a genius. I would imagine Mattingly's baseball IQ and the way he went about his business wasn't much different from when they were losing to when they were almost unstoppable.

 

People put too much both good and bad on managers. I have even seen people judge managers on the team's record vs. it's pythagorean record. Did you know if you did that, Joe Maddon wouldn't be so highly thought of. This year was only the 2nd time out of his 8 seasons as a manager the team's actual record was better than it's pythagorean.

The White Sox were 3 games worse than the pythagorean as well.

[Balta1701]

99 losses because of the manager is a reason to eat what essentially is maybe half what Jeff Keppinger makes a season. If that.

While this may seem logical, it's simply not how our organization (or really, most of the organizations in Chicago) behave. These guys really hate spending money on 2 coaches at once.

[Dick Allen]

While this may seem logical, it's simply not how our organization (or really, most of the organizations in Chicago) behave. These guys really hate spending money on 2 coaches at once.

When the Sox traded Scott Linebrink to Atlanta, they sent $1.5 million along with him. I would venture to guess, that is about what Robin is making. So whether you want to believe it or not, if the higher ups really thought Robin was the reason the team was horrible, logic indicates he would no longer have the job.

 

If the team is an 85-90 win team without Robin as the manager and close to a 100 loss team with him as the manager, it makes no financial sense to keep him, even if it means having to pay another manager.

[Vance Law]

Alex Rios, for example, had a boatload of stolen bases this year without being an incredibly fast or explosive runner...can DeAza "learn" instincts like those?

 

Most would probably argue no...that when guys like Pods, Pierre or Figgins get older, they just go downhill quickly.

 

Rios is 32 and stole 40 bases, his career best. Alexei stole his career best, 30, at age 32. De Aza is only 29.

[witesoxfan]

Rios is 32 and stole 40 bases, his career best. Alexei stole his career best, 30, at age 32. De Aza is only 29.

 

Paul O'Neill set a career high for stolen bases when he was 38. It was also his first and only 20/20 season

[Leonard Zelig]

Paul O'Neill set a career high for stolen bases when he was 38. It was also his first and only 20/20 season

Was that the year he caught the fly ball in his cap?

[caulfield12]

Rios is 32 and stole 40 bases, his career best. Alexei stole his career best, 30, at age 32. De Aza is only 29.

 

 

And you expect 30-35-40 from DeAza this year, consequently?

 

 

[caulfield12]

When the Sox traded Scott Linebrink to Atlanta, they sent $1.5 million along with him. I would venture to guess, that is about what Robin is making. So whether you want to believe it or not, if the higher ups really thought Robin was the reason the team was horrible, logic indicates he would no longer have the job.

 

If the team is an 85-90 win team without Robin as the manager and close to a 100 loss team with him as the manager, it makes no financial sense to keep him, even if it means having to pay another manager.

 

 

The White Sox paid Mike MacDougal $2,650,000 in 2009.

 

He pitched 4 1/3 innings for them that year before they (Cooper) finally gave up....and he ended up being claimed by the Nationals.

[witesoxfan]

And you expect 30-35-40 from DeAza this year, consequently?

 

No, but the idea that players can improve their base stealing technique with age is not a novel concept.

[Eminor3rd]

No, but the idea that players can improve their base stealing technique with age is not a novel concept.

 

Yeah, after all, Paul Konerko reached his career high in SB, 2, at age 33

[caulfield12]

No, but the idea that players can improve their base stealing technique with age is not a novel concept.

 

 

Once again, is DeAza that that coachable?

 

Who on our coaching staff is suddenly going to turn around all these mistakes in the field and basepaths that couldn't do it last year?

[Vance Law]

And you expect 30-35-40 from DeAza this year, consequently?

 

Just that he clearly isn't so old that if he managed to improve some technique-wise, his speed isn't imminently disappearing. He's got some years.

 

 

Regarding the reliability of baserunning statistics, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Fangraphs is doing too much subjective tinkering with the data. It's pretty much just aggregating observed events. And if for some reason you didn't want to go by that, you can simply look up the raw data on Baseballreference.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/...g-batting.shtml

 

The most careless (or "dumbest") baserunner this year was Jose Altuve who made outs on the bases or was picked off 21 times (not including caught stealings). 2nd would go to De Aza or Puig (who had 15 to De Aza's 17 but in a lot less games).

 

De Aza took an extra base (went 1st to 3rd on single, 1st to home on double, 2nd to home on single) 46% of the time. League average was 39%. Paul Konerko was dead last among regular players at 8%. Add in Dunn's 22% and Phegley's 18% and the White Sox otherwise pretty decent showing gets dragged below league average to 36%. Sox were also pretty much league average at being picked off and making outs on the bases.

 

Edit: just realized the link I posted was AL only

 

MLB - http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/...g-batting.shtml

Edited October 17, 2013 by Vance Law

[caulfield12]

Just that he clearly isn't so old that if he managed to improve some technique-wise, his speed isn't imminently disappearing. He's got some years.

 

 

Regarding the reliability of baserunning statistics, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Fangraphs is doing too much subjective tinkering with the data. It's pretty much just aggregating observed events. And if for some reason you didn't want to go by that, you can simply look up the raw data on Baseballreference.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/...g-batting.shtml

 

The most careless (or "dumbest") baserunner this year was Jose Altuve who made outs on the bases or was picked off 21 times (not including caught stealings). 2nd would go to De Aza or Puig (who had 15 to De Aza's 17 but in a lot less games).

 

De Aza took an extra base (went 1st to 3rd on single, 1st to home on double, 2nd to home on single) 46% of the time. League average was 39%. Paul Konerko was dead last among regular players at 8%. Add in Dunn's 22% and Phegley's 18% and the White Sox otherwise pretty decent showing gets dragged below league average to 36%. Sox were also pretty much league average at being picked off and making outs on the bases.

 

 

And what was Puig in those situations?

 

How many extra bases did he take?

 

 

[Vance Law]

And what was Puig in those situations?

 

How many extra bases did he take?

 

Puig, I think was 58% on taking extra bases. High risk, high reward. Tough to wrangle an ultra-aggressive player and chorale him to the break even point on taking extra bases. Puig also had 11 SB to go with 8 CS.

 

Edit: So Puig's terrible stolen base percentage of 58% matches his excellent extra-base taken percentage of 58%. Seems fitting.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Vance Law

[caulfield12]

Puig, I think was 58% on taking extra bases. High risk, high reward. Tough to wrangle an ultra-aggressive player and chorale him to the break even point on taking extra bases. Puig also had 11 SB to go with 8 CS.

 

Edit: So Puig's terrible stolen base percentage of 58% matches his excellent extra-base taken percentage of 58%. Seems fitting.

 

Just out of curiosity, who were the Top 10 (MLB) in that statistic?

[Dick Allen]

See Phil Rogers.

 

Ozzie and Gardenhire (until recent years) always had good results in this category...

 

 

If Greg775 was managing the team this year, I can't imagine they would have finished much worse. There would have been more fun and frivolity in the post-game quotes....we would have gone from Bill Self to Ozzie drinking beers in Applebee's to the death penalty.

 

I could have been the 1st base coach and thrown in random quotations from Malcolm Gladwell books, lol.

Speaking of Phil Rogers, he is no longer with the Tribune. He is with mlb.com.

[Vance Law]

Just out of curiosity, who were the Top 10 (MLB) in that statistic?

 

The prob is there's no way to sort by a minimum # of opportunities. If I set a min of 400 plate appearances, here's that list:

 

Florimon 68%

Shuck 66

Dozier 62

Bonifacio 61

Kinsler 61

Trout 59

Bautista 58

Aybar 57

Alc. Escobar 57

Rasmus 57

 

 

Rasmus, Andrus, Bourn, Stubbs, Jennings, Reyes, Crisp, Alexei closely after that

 

But Trout was on 1st base when a single was hit 44 times. Florimon (amazingly) only 12 times in 440 pa. There'd obviously be a decent amount of variability in this one stat year-to-year based on the small sample size. Nonetheless, as you see, you've got a lot of the usual suspects at the top of the list.

 

For comparison, since he's been discussed so much, De Aza was at 56% last year, and now 50% for his career.

 

edited.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Vance Law

[southsider2k5]

Once again, is DeAza that that coachable?

 

Who on our coaching staff is suddenly going to turn around all these mistakes in the field and basepaths that couldn't do it last year?

 

I'd go with an electric shock collar personally.

[balfanman]

De Aza took an extra base (went 1st to 3rd on single, 1st to home on double, 2nd to home on single) 46% of the time. League average was 39%. Paul Konerko was dead last among regular players at 8%. Add in Dunn's 22% and Phegley's 18% and the White Sox otherwise pretty decent showing gets dragged below league average to 36%. Sox were also pretty much league average at being picked off and making outs on the bases.

 

Is this stat adjusted for ballpark? If not, the Sox should have a lower average due too the smaller park right? If the fences are say 10 feet shorter on average, then that's 10 less feet the ball can travel in the outfield so the runners don't have the amount of time to get to the next base as a runner in a larger ballpark.

[witesoxfan]

Once again, is DeAza that that coachable?

 

Who on our coaching staff is suddenly going to turn around all these mistakes in the field and basepaths that couldn't do it last year?

 

I certainly did not believe Ramirez was coachable, nor did I expect Rios to come out and have a 40 stolen base season (even if some of it was with Texas).

 

I can't tell you whether or not De Aza is coachable or whether he will do anything, but the examples we have indicate that it is certainly a distinct possibility.

 

[Vance Law]

I certainly did not believe Ramirez was coachable, nor did I expect Rios to come out and have a 40 stolen base season (even if some of it was with Texas).

 

Yep. Alexei 7 for 12 in SB in 2011. 30 for 39 in 2013.