Sox to Make Hard Push for Granderson

[Eminor3rd]

After reading about Grandy and DeAza on here, maybe the solution is to send DeAza to ADD classes. It seems like he loses focus. He does have a lot of 2-for-5 type games. If somebody could get him to pull his head out, maybe he'd draw more walks and not be a huge liability on the basepaths and somewhat inconsistent center fielder as well.

 

No doubt he sometimes has some pop in his bat. He's just a looney in so many areas. Maybe he needs Jerry to have a talk with him in spring training about how he's expected to do better.

 

I think we just need to accept that some guys are league-average players and that they have some value as league average players. De Aza is upgradebale, but no matter how angry he made us getting picked off, he was NOT the guy that sunk this team. We gotta replace our black holes before we replace our boring-but-relatively-effective guys.

[Dick Allen]

While all of your proposals are inherently silly, my favorite is ADD classes. Is there such a thing? Can you diagnose a mental health issue from watching a guy play baseball? I wonder what happened from '11-'12 to '13 that made ADA get an attention deficit disorder... Perhaps this type of thing is contagious Greg? Maybe our own '13 draft pick Nick Blount can pass over some of his amphetamines to De Aza now that he got busted? What do you think Greg?

Whatever it was, there was something that we saw with De Aza last season we didn't see before. He didn't appear that dumb on the bases or in the field or it would have been brought up over and over again. Maybe it was just a bad year or maybe he just is a not so smart player who just got busted a ridiculous proportion last season, and got away with it previously. I wouldn't give him away either, but from what Stone said, it seems like the Sox would like to move on.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Dick Allen

[LittleHurt05]

Per Buster Olney, the Yankees have made a qualifying offer to Granderson

[caulfield12]

Per Buster Olney, the Yankees have made a qualifying offer to Granderson

 

 

And they pretty much have to keep Cano as well if they want to have enough offense next year.

[Jake]

While all of your proposals are inherently silly, my favorite is ADD classes. Is there such a thing? Can you diagnose a mental health issue from watching a guy play baseball? I wonder what happened from '11-'12 to '13 that made ADA get an attention deficit disorder... Perhaps this type of thing is contagious Greg? Maybe our own '13 draft pick Nick Blount can pass over some of his amphetamines to De Aza now that he got busted? What do you think Greg?

 

LOL, as our resident adult ADHD'er, I can confirm that there is no such thing as ADD class. Some people do hire ADHD "coaches" to consult with, but we're usually getting "coached" on things like arranging a daily schedule, how to remember to do basic things like brush our teeth and feed our pets, etc. IF De Aza had ADHD, the only thing that would help him on the field is medication. With that said, I highly doubt that that is the problem and as you said, to diagnose it over the TV is ridiculous. He was a fairly conscientious player in 2012 and came off as simply a tad aggressive rather than airheaded. I think he came unprepared last year and continued to lose focus (focus in the sense of motivation) as the year dragged on.

 

It's nice that his problems aren't physical, but sometimes you can't fix dumb. You can never fix a lack of talent, though. Will be interesting to see what he does this year. Would be even more interesting to know what the FO thinks about him right now.

[caulfield12]

While all of your proposals are inherently silly, my favorite is ADD classes. Is there such a thing? Can you diagnose a mental health issue from watching a guy play baseball? I wonder what happened from '11-'12 to '13 that made ADA get an attention deficit disorder... Perhaps this type of thing is contagious Greg? Maybe our own '13 draft pick Nick Blount can pass over some of his amphetamines to De Aza now that he got busted? What do you think Greg?

 

 

I'm assuming he was being facetious, since there's no such thing literally as an ADD/ADHD class.

 

We saw it a lot in the inner city schools, where the solution was just to overmedicate and give all those so-called "crack babies" Ritalin to turn them into zombies except they weren't the "fast zombies" of World War Z. They moved about as fast as Konerko or a Molina brother.

 

Therefore, I don't think we need to start prescribing drugs to DeAza, Viciedo or Ramirez.

[caulfield12]

LOL, as our resident adult ADHD'er, I can confirm that there is no such thing as ADD class. Some people do hire ADHD "coaches" to consult with, but we're usually getting "coached" on things like arranging a daily schedule, how to remember to do basic things like brush our teeth and feed our pets, etc. IF De Aza had ADHD, the only thing that would help him on the field is medication. With that said, I highly doubt that that is the problem and as you said, to diagnose it over the TV is ridiculous. He was a fairly conscientious player in 2012 and came off as simply a tad aggressive rather than airheaded. I think he came unprepared last year and continued to lose focus (focus in the sense of motivation) as the year dragged on.

 

It's nice that his problems aren't physical, but sometimes you can't fix dumb. You can never fix a lack of talent, though. Will be interesting to see what he does this year. Would be even more interesting to know what the FO thinks about him right now.

 

 

I can see it now.

 

2014, The Will To Be Conscientious (TWTBC) ot TWITBAC, we can combine twitter and being conscientious.

 

 

 

I'm sure Hawk will find a way to measure it...

[sircaffey]

For people clamoring over Granderson, just remember Granderson is coming off of a wrist injury which will likely zap him of his power.

 

In 2012 when he was healthy, his OBP dropped down to .319. In 2011, and 2012 he had a negative DRS.

 

So, were going to pay Granderson, I assume to be, over 10M a year to play bad defense, not get on base, and not hit for power?

 

Pass.

He did not have a wrist injury.

[DirtySox]

Granderson received a qualifying offer.

 

Also:

 

Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 15m

Keep in mind that although White Sox top pick at No. 3 is protected, they almost certainly aren't giving up Draft picks. That item, along ..

Reply Retweet Favorite More Expand

 

Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 15m

... with international spending, are two of the major items in the '14 budget per Rick Hahn.

Reply Retweet Favorite More Expand

[witesoxfan]

He did not have a wrist injury.

 

Broken right forearm, broken left finger. It's not wrist but he wasn't healthy and it could sap his power.

[harfman77]

Per Buster Olney, the Yankees have made a qualifying offer to Granderson

 

That should put an end to that talk. He is a decent player, but won't provide enough value to this team to pay him more than the $14.1M AAV he receives with his qualifying offer. The money is better used signing a couple of catchers to platoon and shoring up the bullpen.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Granderson received a qualifying offer.

 

Also:

 

Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 15m

Keep in mind that although White Sox top pick at No. 3 is protected, they almost certainly aren't giving up Draft picks. That item, along ..

Reply Retweet Favorite More Expand

 

Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 15m

... with international spending, are two of the major items in the '14 budget per Rick Hahn.

Reply Retweet Favorite More Expand

 

Yep. The QO takes the Sox out of the Granderson market. It actually hurts the player. Most teams won't be giving up a draft selection for Grandy.

[harfman77]

Granderson received a qualifying offer.

 

Also:

 

Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 15m

Keep in mind that although White Sox top pick at No. 3 is protected, they almost certainly aren't giving up Draft picks. That item, along ..

Reply Retweet Favorite More Expand

 

Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 15m

... with international spending, are two of the major items in the '14 budget per Rick Hahn.

Reply Retweet Favorite More Expand

 

Hopefully it is a good class of international prospects.

[harfman77]

Yep. The QO takes the Sox out of the Granderson market. It actually hurts the player. Most teams won't be giving up a draft selection for Grandy.

 

He should accept the offer.

 

I agree that the new system hurts the player, not only does a team lose a draft choice, but they have to pay enough to compete with the qualifying offer. They should have looked at a tiered system where a player like Grandy would cost a team their second or third round pick instead of their first or second pick.

[Balta1701]

He should accept the offer.

 

I agree that the new system hurts the player, not only does a team lose a draft choice, but they have to pay enough to compete with the qualifying offer. They should have looked at a tiered system where a player like Grandy would cost a team their second or third round pick instead of their first or second pick.

I think he could still get more than that on the open market (or perhaps get the Yankees to sign him to a 3 year deal before the accept/decline deadline). I'd probably be willing to part with a 2nd round pick for him at 2/$20.

[Eminor3rd]

He should accept the offer.

 

I agree that the new system hurts the player, not only does a team lose a draft choice, but they have to pay enough to compete with the qualifying offer. They should have looked at a tiered system where a player like Grandy would cost a team their second or third round pick instead of their first or second pick.

 

It's supposed to hurt the player -- it's designed to give the team enough leverage to retain its best players. The tiered system was abused for profit by teams like the Blue Jays and Rays, and Elias' ranking system was hopelessly obsolete.

[Chicago White Sox]

I think he could still get more than that on the open market (or perhaps get the Yankees to sign him to a 3 year deal before the accept/decline deadline). I'd probably be willing to part with a 2nd round pick for him at 2/$20.

It's not just the pick you'd be parting with, but also the bonus pool money. Our 1st round pick is likely going to get their full slot amount, so if we want to have some flexibility for later in the draft, we'll probably need to go underslot in round 2 and/or 3. I'd hate to lose a prospect and some of that flexibility for a guy that is only going to help us for 2 years.

[harfman77]

I think he could still get more than that on the open market (or perhaps get the Yankees to sign him to a 3 year deal before the accept/decline deadline). I'd probably be willing to part with a 2nd round pick for him at 2/$20.

 

He could probably get more years, but he will not get more than the $14.1M per year. I think he would be that he could sign a one year deal worth at least $10M next season to make that a better option than signing for less this year. The Yanks are after picks, I dont think anyone is going to sign the guys they made offers to though. Cano will return, no real market there for him as everyone who can afford him has the position filled, and Kuroda probably only wants a year anyway.

 

Of those that have received qualifying offers, the most likely to accept them at this point seem to be Granderson and Stephen Drew.

[witesoxfan]

He should accept the offer.

 

I agree that the new system hurts the player, not only does a team lose a draft choice, but they have to pay enough to compete with the qualifying offer. They should have looked at a tiered system where a player like Grandy would cost a team their second or third round pick instead of their first or second pick.

 

And leave it to the discretion of the team. The original team also shouldn't have to give up draft picks.

 

~$5 mill QO - supplemental pick after the 10th round

$10 mill QO - supplemental pick after the 5th round (allotted money is added to spending total)

$15 mill QO - supplemental pick after 1st round

$20 mill QO - supplemental picks after 1st, 5th, and 10th round

[Eminor3rd]

I think he could still get more than that on the open market (or perhaps get the Yankees to sign him to a 3 year deal before the accept/decline deadline). I'd probably be willing to part with a 2nd round pick for him at 2/$20.

 

That feels like throwing money into a fire to me. Granderson is a short term upgrade, sure, but not a massive one.

 

I just think whatever we spend money/draft picks on needs to have upside that could be useful 3 years from now. We're at the point where we need to prioritize surplus value over anything. Market rate value does us no good and it's easier to come by later.

[harfman77]

It's supposed to hurt the player -- it's designed to give the team enough leverage to retain its best players. The tiered system was abused for profit by teams like the Blue Jays and Rays, and Elias' ranking system was hopelessly obsolete.

 

I agree about the ranking system, but teams should be able to designate a B level offer to a second tier player, or a C level offer to RP type. The problem is teams have too much leverage now and its costing players money, so this will be an issue in the next CBA.

[nickofypres]

Additionally, I wonder what your definition of "no power" is. Because Granderson recently hit 40+ HR in back to back years. I wouldn't expect him to ever hit that number again, but I think 20 HR is a reasonable benchmark in a full season and I wouldn't consider that "no power".

 

Fair enough.

 

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Welp, Granderson being offered a QO pretty much saps up all the remaining interest I had in him. I'm not willing to pay him $12M a year AND give up a draft pick. Are picks are more valuable now than they have been in a LONG time. Can't be frivolous with them.

[Balta1701]

Welp, Granderson being offered a QO pretty much saps up all the remaining interest I had in him. I'm not willing to pay him $12M a year AND give up a draft pick. Are picks are more valuable now than they have been in a LONG time. Can't be frivolous with them.

Hypothetically...if they signed McCann and that cost us our 2nd rounder anyway...would you be willing to lose a 3rd for Granderson?

[cabiness42]

Hypothetically...if they signed McCann and that cost us our 2nd rounder anyway...would you be willing to lose a 3rd for Granderson?

 

I'm not even sure I'm on board with giving up the 2nd rounder to get McCann. Wait a year, hopefully the team will earn something worse than a top 10 pick, and then sign a couple free agents next offseason.

 

If you give up that 2nd round pick to sign somebody now, it's because you're expecting to make the playoffs in 2014 and that doesn't seem terribly realistic.