Sox to Make Hard Push for Granderson

[caulfield12]

Victorino's contract is at 2/$26M. I would take him as he is a great clubhouse guy, plays good defense, and gets on base. Not sure why the Red Sox would move him though, at least until they get some replacements in house. I expect that they will sign Choo, but they still need a LF'er to play with Bradley in CF, unless they want the Gomes/Carp/Nava platoon out there.

 

I just don't know how the two teams match up for a deal. The Red Sox need upgrades at the corner IF positions and C and the Sox don't really have anything to offer there. Their rotation is over filled and they are looking to move pitching, so I just dont see how a deal gets done.

 

 

They're obviously not going to trade for Gillaspie/Keppinger.

 

Middlebrooks will get one final year to prove himself at 3B or 1B, whichever position is easier for them to fill, and dependent on whether they still view Wil as the long-term solution at 3B.

 

They could also put Bogaerts at 3B, Middlebrooks at 1B and look for a SS (hint, Alexei Ramirez)...if they're unsure about Bogaerts playing SS.

 

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

It wouldn't shock me if we sign Granderson. It isn't, on its face, a horrible decision.

 

It would absolutely blow my mind if we gave him $70M

 

 

Actually, it is a horrible decision. Bad teams with bad farm systems don't trade draft $$ and a top 50 pick for 30+ year old veterans on short term deals. I don't care that he's from here. 90% of this board hates Adam Dunn because he strikes out and I feel like some of those same people want Granderson.

[Kyyle23]

I honestly dont think anything would disappoint me more than Hahn giving Granderson 60+ million dollars on a +3 year deal. So far this offseason is a homerun with Abreu. If he signs Granderson to a deal like has been speculated by the media, than that homerun will be negated because the runner forgot to touch home plate.

[caulfield12]

If Quintana's truly untouchable, the only players he really has to trade are Ramirez, Hector Santiago, Jeff Keppinger (a salary swap) and Jones or Reed.

 

Beckham and Viciedo don't make much sense to deal at this point because 1) we don't have suitable replacements in the minors, unless they feel Semien's 100% ready and 2)you're not going to get much return or value, so you're better off waiting for 3-4 months and letting 2014 play out.

 

And maybe if DeAza had someone really with a hard-on for acquiring him, but that would open up the CF issue all over again...can't imagine in a million years they would turn the position over to Trayce Thompson coming out of spring training. But DeAza isn't going to be the centerpiece of any trade.

 

There's unlikely to be a satisfactory 3B on the FA market, so there's where you allocate your trade bait....the problem is that targets like Headley or Sandoval wouldn't be under control for enough time to make it worthwhile.

 

So you're left with the final move of the offseason being a Tier B/C catcher...all those names available after McCann/Salty/AJ, starting with Ruiz (who might be too expensive and also prefer to remain in the AL), Navarro, Suzuki, Brayan Pena, Buck, etc.

Edited November 14, 2013 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

I honestly dont think anything would disappoint me more than Hahn giving Granderson 60+ million dollars on a +3 year deal. So far this offseason is a homerun with Abreu. If he signs Granderson to a deal like has been speculated by the media, than that homerun will be negated because the runner forgot to touch home plate.

 

If the top is more than $10 mil, and/or longer than 3 years, I will be upset.

[Y2Jimmy0]

If the top is more than $10 mil, and/or longer than 3 years, I will be upset.

 

 

I would be more upset if it were a 2 year deal actually. Why would you trade a 2nd rd draft choice and the $$ slotted to that spot for a guy on a short term deal? Qualifying Offers will really hurt some of these players.

[caulfield12]

If the top is more than $10 mil, and/or longer than 3 years, I will be upset.

 

 

Granderson's not going to leave $14.1 million on the table, only to turn around and earn $8 million and $8 million the two following years (in your $30 million, 3 year scenario of a long-term deal).

 

Or he might end up firing his agent for telling him to reject that one year QO.

Edited November 14, 2013 by caulfield12

[Eminor3rd]

Question for all - it has been mentioned that we'll call the BoSox about Victorino.

 

Would you prefer to sign Granderson for something like 4/$40M or trade something valuable for Victorino?

 

What? Neither.

[oldsox]

Granderson's not going to leave $14.1 million on the table, only to turn around and earn $8 million and $8 million the two following years (in your $30 million, 3 year scenario of a long-term deal).

 

Or he might end up firing his agent for telling him to reject that one year QO.

He would not be the first player to get bad advice from his agent and thus leave a lot of money on the table.

[caulfield12]

He would not be the first player to get bad advice from his agent and thus leave a lot of money on the table.

 

Still remember post-season 2008 and really dodging that bullet with Orlando Cabrera/Guillen/KW not accepting arbitration...opening the way for Ramirez to play SS full-time.

 

I'm pretty sure he ended up worse off, didn't he?

[Dick Allen]

Still remember post-season 2008 and really dodging that bullet with Orlando Cabrera/Guillen/KW not accepting arbitration...opening the way for Ramirez to play SS full-time.

 

I'm pretty sure he ended up worse off, didn't he?

Yes and no. The Sox could have released him and payed him 20% of his arb number in spring training. Looking for a job in March most likely wouldn't have netted him the difference from what he ultimately received.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

He would not be the first player to get bad advice from his agent and thus leave a lot of money on the table.

 

Meet Juan Gonzalez...

[caulfield12]

Yes and no. The Sox could have released him and payed him 20% of his arb number in spring training. Looking for a job in March most likely wouldn't have netted him the difference from what he ultimately received.

 

 

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...s&fext=.jsp

 

 

Cost himself around $4.5-5 million dollars...as he eventually ended up with only $4 million with the A's.

 

 

 

1986 Ray Knight turns down New York Mets offer of 800K-The heart and soul of the Mets 1986 World Series champions and World Series MVP, Knight felt entitled to a big pay raise over his 600K 1986 salary. He also thought it would be a good idea to negotiate his own contract. He wouldn’t accept a penny less than 1 mil, Mets GM Frank Cashen refused, and so Ray decided to teach Cashen a lesson by signing with the Orioles for 500K.

 

1994 Jody Reed turns down 3 years/3.8 mil from Dodgers-Reed became synonymous with bad player moves after this doozy. To be kind, Reed was a marginal player coming off a good year who should have jumped at that offer. He rejected a three year contract offer by the Dodgers and wound up signing for the MLB minimum of $100,000 with the Brewers the next season. He did earn $750,000 of incentives for that year but still would have earned over $1.2 million more if he had accepted the Dodgers offer. He went on to earn 2.8 mil over the remaining 4 years of his career.

 

2010 Adam Laroche turns down 2 year/17.5 mil with Giants-Here’s a recent case of overplaying your hand. After being turned down by Laroche, Giants GM Brian Sabean turned around and signed Aubrey Huff for a 1 year deal at 3 mil. With dwindling options and the 1B market collapsing, Laroche signed with the Diamondback on a one year contract for $4.5 to $5 million.

 

2004 Nomar Garciaparra turns down 4 year/60 mil extension from Red Sox-After a very public and bitter divorce with the Red Sox (is there another kind?) Nomar decided to test the waters of free agency and signed a 1 year/8.25 mil with the Cubs for the 2005 season. He made 35 mil total in the remaining 5 years of his career after leaving the Red Sox.

 

2000 Juan Gonzalez turns down 8 years/140 mil from the Detroit Tigers-The king of all bad moves, even 10 years later this one has yet to be topped by any player. After being traded by the Texas Rangers to Detroit, the Tigers tried to lock up Juan-gone before he hit free agency. He refused the offer, had an awful season the next year in Detroit and signed for 1 year/10 mil with the Cleveland Indians the next year. He went on to earn approximately 38 mil over the remaining 5 years of his career

 

- See more at: http://www.theyankeeu.com/2010/02/worst-pl...h.OSaUWB2j.dpuf

Edited November 14, 2013 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...s&fext=.jsp

 

 

Cost himself around $4.5-5 million dollars...as he eventually ended up with only $4 million with the A's.

What ultimately would have happened had he accepted and won $11 million would be the White Sox releasing him in spring training, he then receiving $2.2 million and trying to hook on with another team. Maybe another teams gives him $1 million, but during spring training it's hard to see him getting much more than that.

[caulfield12]

What ultimately would have happened had he accepted and won $11 million would be the White Sox releasing him in spring training, he then receiving $2.2 million and trying to hook on with another team. Maybe another teams gives him $1 million, but during spring training it's hard to see him getting much more than that.

 

 

I thought the whole point of offering binding arbitration was to pick up the draft pick/s, but had he accepted, they were locked into whatever number the judge decided upon (and 75-80% of the time, it has gone in the direction of the player).

 

http://www.examiner.com/article/a-s-sign-o...ft-compensation

 

 

Would the White Sox really have eaten $2.2 million? I can't remember any time that has happened in recent baseball history...where a player accepts arbitration and then is cut by the team that just offered him. I knew that 20% was the most you could decrease a player's salary from the previous year....hmmm.

 

Edited November 14, 2013 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

I thought the whole point of offering binding arbitration was to pick up the draft pick/s, but had he accepted, they were locked into whatever number the judge decided upon (and 75-80% of the time, it has gone in the direction of the player).

Yeah, but at least back then they could release them in spring training and only have to pay 20%. You would have to somehow show loss of skill if Cabrera filed a grievance, but they could have had him hitting against the better pitchers, things like that, to keep his spring training numbers low.

[caulfield12]

Yeah, but at least back then they could release them in spring training and only have to pay 20%. You would have to somehow show loss of skill if Cabrera filed a grievance, but they could have had him hitting against the better pitchers, things like that, to keep his spring training numbers low.

 

 

Would a judge/mediator/arbitrator really make a decision based on performance in spring training? That seems a little far-fetched, and a difficult case to prove.

 

Cabrera's agent would have argued that KW and Ozzie had a grudge against him, were bluffing about not offering him a starting position in order to be able to collect a draft pick (of course, we all know that Ramirez turned out to be a better SS NOW)...that they were malicious in their attempts to box him into a corner, etc.

 

They could have used Ozzie's comments in the regular season about Cabrera only being concerned with his stats, blah blah blah.

 

[Dick Allen]

Would a judge/mediator/arbitrator really make a decision based on performance in spring training? That seems a little far-fetched, and a difficult case to prove.

 

Cabrera's agent would have argued that KW and Ozzie had a grudge against him, were bluffing about not offering him a starting position in order to be able to collect a draft pick (of course, we all know that Ramirez turned out to be a better SS NOW)...that they were malicious in their attempts to box him into a corner, etc.

 

They could have used Ozzie's comments in the regular season about Cabrera only being concerned with his stats, blah blah blah.

I always thought it was really risky considering they really wanted no part of Cabrera. The compensation ultimately was............................Josh Phegley.

[caulfield12]

I always thought it was really risky considering they really wanted no part of Cabrera. The compensation ultimately was............................Josh Phegley.

 

 

Not exactly like Wacha for Pujols.

[southsider2k5]

Not exactly like Wacha for Pujols.

 

Which goes to the point of what are the odds that any second round pick the Sox might give up would put up better eventual numbers than what Granderson would with the Sox? (if he were to sign?)

[witesoxfan]

Which goes to the point of what are the odds that any second round pick the Sox might give up would put up better eventual numbers than what Granderson would with the Sox? (if he were to sign?)

 

That's kind of a misguided philosophy though. What are the odds that the #3 pick is going to do more than what Granderson would? Pretty small, but you don't want to give it up anyways. Same thing applies for the 2nd round pick too. You are still talking about one of the 50ish best amateur baseball players in the country.

[southsider2k5]

That's kind of a misguided philosophy though. What are the odds that the #3 pick is going to do more than what Granderson would? Pretty small, but you don't want to give it up anyways. Same thing applies for the 2nd round pick too. You are still talking about one of the 50ish best amateur baseball players in the country.

 

Odds are WAY higher at #3 versus #33 or whereever the sox second pick is.

[caulfield12]

Which goes to the point of what are the odds that any second round pick the Sox might give up would put up better eventual numbers than what Granderson would with the Sox? (if he were to sign?)

 

 

About 2-3%.

 

I could care less about losing the draft pick, because we'll probably just end up with another Mitchell/Thompson/Jacobs/Thompson/Walker.

 

I DO want to be able to take that money and spend it more efficiently 1 or 2 years down the line, though.

 

 

Because we've all seen in the past with bad contracts for players like Linebrink or MacDougal, Contreras, Rios (for 60-70% of his time with the Sox, he wasn't movable), Dunn, Teahen, Keppinger....how fast that money adds up to the point where they're stuck between a rock and a hard place, as they were this past off-season.

 

Prospects aren't ready or good enough....and available payroll doesn't make improving the team through that avenue (spending like crazy) a viable option, either.

 

 

We have to thank God Konerko fell apart this last season instead of ending up with a final 3 year/$45 million contract at the end of 2012...and that Buehrle left when he did, instead of us overpaying him.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

Odds are WAY higher at #3 versus #33 or whereever the sox second pick is.

 

With the system in the shape it's in, I don't think that matters. You need as many draft picks as possible. Besides, how much future value are you likely to get out of Granderson? With players like him, especially those with contact issues and injuries to hands, wrists, and forearms, their careers can wind down very quickly. On top of that, the Sox have 3 capable outfielders right now, even if they aren't great. The minor league system is bad. The major league team is bad. Curtis Granderson on his own is not going to affect that much. It would be better to take any money that they allotted towards small pick ups that they don't have to give up draft picks for.

 

 

[fathom]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Sox would be losing a lot of their draft allotment money if they lose their 2nd round pick.