Sox to Make Hard Push for Granderson

[Kyyle23]

Even though the sox would lose a 2nd round pick for signing him, Granderson makes too much sense not to go after. Provided he can be had on a 3 year deal, for around $10 mil. Per. His presence and proven production would help the sox add young guys at the bottom of the lineup in 2014 and the next few years. And would provide a big lefty bat to go with Avasail and Abreu on the right.

 

Given how quiet the Granderson market seems to be, few teams seem willing to add Curtis because it will cost them a 1st round pick.

 

Couldnt disagree more. I hope some other team signs him and saves the Sox from it

[Balta1701]

Couldnt disagree more. I hope some other team signs him and saves the Sox from it

If his price is only 3/$30 that suggests to me teams have way over corrected in keeping their draft picks, because that'd be far under what he ought to make based on what other guys are getting, 3/$45 or higher seems much more comparable in this market. I might well consider that, the 2nd round pick isn't likely to be worh as much as Granderson on a contract that really underpays him.

[justBLAZE]

If his price is only 3/$30 that suggests to me teams have way over corrected in keeping their draft picks, because that'd be far under what he ought to make based on what other guys are getting, 3/$45 or higher seems much more comparable in this market. I might well consider that, the 2nd round pick isn't likely to be worh as much as Granderson on a contract that really underpays him.

 

Not only that, he is probably willing to take a hometown discount.

[Balta1701]

Not only that, he is probably willing to take a hometown discount.

3/$30 would be a hometown discount for him. At the start of the offseason if have guessed 3/$40 for him, which I'd guess would push a fair deal for him even higher in this market.

[Kyyle23]

i dont care what he is worth, what he wants, or what he gets. DO. NOT. WANT.

[flavum]

If they got Granderson for 2 years at 26 mil, I'd be happy with that. Two years while the Sox are still trying to develop some guys, I'd be ok with. Three years is where I don't want him--especially at 12+ mil. I bet he signs somewhere in the next two weeks, so we'll know soon enough.

[TheFutureIsNear]

If they got Granderson for 2 years at 26 mil, I'd be happy with that. Two years while the Sox are still trying to develop some guys, I'd be ok with. Three years is where I don't want him--especially at 12+ mil. I bet he signs somewhere in the next two weeks, so we'll know soon enough.

 

Why? So he can be there just to ensure the team stays mediocre? This team does not need to be investing $ in any player that isn't apart of the future. Plus the current lineup is already over capacity with guys who can't keep their OBP above .320.

[flavum]

Why? So he can be there just to ensure the team stays mediocre? This team does not need to be investing $ in any player that isn't apart of the future. Plus the current lineup is already over capacity with guys who can't keep their OBP above .320.

 

It depends on the rest of the roster, but I'd rather take a chance on Granderson to have a couple good years than watch De Aza or Viciedo play.

 

This team needs a personality change too. And it wouldn't hurt to bring in a guy like Granderson for the right price. He can bring some value other than just his numbers.

 

But again, we'll know soon enough where he's going. My guess is somebody will offer him 3 guaranteed years in the 40-45 range, and he'll take it. I don't want that team to be the Sox.

[Eminor3rd]

This is another reason why wRC+ is such a great stat. It takes this into account. My favorite example was reading it before realizing that it adjusts for year...

 

Juan Gonzalez had a pretty great career while it lasted. I was looking over it on FanGraphs. In 1997, in just 133 games, Juan Gon mashed 42 bombs with 131 RBI to go with his .296 average and .335 OBP. This earned him a 127 wRC+ -- which is pretty damn great, don't get me wrong -- but doesn't feel nearly high enough for those counting numbers.

 

So now, in 2013, let's looking at Marlon Byrd. He batted .291 with a .336 OBP (I wanted someone who didn't walk a ton, like Juan Gon). He struck out quite a bit more than Juan Gon, 25% vs. 17% for Juan. Byrd hit 24 homers with 88 RBI. Nice little season, 147 games so a bit more than Juan.. Sure as hell isn't as good as 42 HR/131 RBI. Byrd's wRC+ in 2013? 136. That's not just better, but notably better.

 

This is why it is so important to adjust for the year when we talk about statistics. This isn't a huge gap in time we're talking about, either, but the league can shift pretty quickly as we see with the 2005/2012 Sox example.

 

Excellent post.

[ILMOU]

It depends on the rest of the roster, but I'd rather take a chance on Granderson to have a couple good years than watch De Aza or Viciedo play.

This team needs a personality change too. And it wouldn't hurt to bring in a guy like Granderson for the right price. He can bring some value other than just his numbers.

 

But again, we'll know soon enough where he's going. My guess is somebody will offer him 3 guaranteed years in the 40-45 range, and he'll take it. I don't want that team to be the Sox.

 

Yes, it's painful to watch Dayan in the field and often at the dish, and here's hoping we can transition him to DH eventually, but to give up on his bat's potential at 24 is wrong, imo.

 

Much, much agreement on the bolded, which is Exhibit A for why I don't want Paulie on the roster in '14. And before anyone starts in, I looove me some #14, but his time has passed.

[BlackSox13]

Why? So he can be there just to ensure the team stays mediocre? This team does not need to be investing $ in any player that isn't apart of the future. Plus the current lineup is already over capacity with guys who can't keep their OBP above .320.

You are one of very few voices of reason my friend. Signing Granderson to a team that's rebuilding/retooling etc is just spending money for the sake of spending money as well as just plain dumb. That money is better spent on player development than any one free agent. If this team was close to contending I would be all for it but they aren't so invest that money in the farm, future drafts and Intl signings.

 

Look at it this way. Had we already signed Granderson we could very well have missed out on Abreu ( depending on years/ money per year for Grandy). Thanks but no thanks Curtis!

 

 

[TheFutureIsNear]

You are one of very few voices of reason my friend. Signing Granderson to a team that's rebuilding/retooling etc is just spending money for the sake of spending money as well as just plain dumb. That money is better spent on player development than any one free agent. If this team was close to contending I would be all for it but they aren't so invest that money in the farm, future drafts and Intl signings.

 

Look at it this way. Had we already signed Granderson we could very well have missed out on Abreu ( depending on years/ money per year for Grandy). Thanks but no thanks Curtis!

 

Yeah I've been surprised by the amount of people who want to hold on and not embrace a rebuild. Not saying I haven't seen a good amount of people rooting for a rebuild, but there are just way more people who are delusional about the talent on the current roster. Curtis Granderson isn't going to make our horrible offense any less horrible.

[Dick Allen]

Yeah I've been surprised by the amount of people who want to hold on and not embrace a rebuild. Not saying I haven't seen a good amount of people rooting for a rebuild, but there are just way more people who are delusional about the talent on the current roster. Curtis Granderson isn't going to make our horrible offense any less horrible.

The Sox are 1 year removed from being 4th in the AL in runs scored. I don't know why someone would have to be delusional to think that that kind of offense can re-appear fairly quickly with a couple of correct moves.

 

It is almost as if people who want the Sox to rebuild seem to think it's a guarantee rebuilds work over the course of a few years. Look at reality. It really isn't.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Dick Allen

[Jake]

You can sign him or not sign him, but I wouldn't sign him for two years. That's the worst amount of time to sign him. He's either a long-term piece or he's not a piece. He's not a guy you trade a lot of money and a draft pick for and only keep for two years

[BlackSox13]

Yeah I've been surprised by the amount of people who want to hold on and not embrace a rebuild. Not saying I haven't seen a good amount of people rooting for a rebuild, but there are just way more people who are delusional about the talent on the current roster. Curtis Granderson isn't going to make our horrible offense any less horrible.

Couldn't agree more. I understand how its hard for some to accept when you want your favorite team to win but the truth is that this rebuild has been coming for a few years now giving the aging players and weak talent in the upper minor leagues. I'm no genius but for me this was easy to see coming and completly necessary.

[Dick Allen]

Couldn't agree more. I understand how its hard for some to accept when you want your favorite team to win but the truth is that this rebuild has been coming for a few years now giving the aging players and weak talent in the upper minor leagues. I'm no genius but for me this was easy to see coming and completly necessary.

I don't understand why you can't try to win and strengthen your minor league system at the same time.

 

I can understand laying off some player because you have a prospect ready to give it a whirl at the major league level, but the Sox prospects are having problems hitting .200 in the minor leagues. There really isn't an OF that seems like he should be ready to roll this year or next.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Dick Allen

[beck72]

Yeah I've been surprised by the amount of people who want to hold on and not embrace a rebuild. Not saying I haven't seen a good amount of people rooting for a rebuild, but there are just way more people who are delusional about the talent on the current roster. Curtis Granderson isn't going to make our horrible offense any less horrible.

All you have to do is listen to Hahn. The sox are trying to compete in 2014. They are not pulling a Cubs or Astros, going with young guys and dropping payroll to next to nothing. Whether you agree or not, the sox think they can contend with the pitching they have.

 

To Do that, contend, they need a mixture of vets and young guys. Seeing how the sox system has OFers that are at least 2 years away from helping in the bigs, if that, they could use a guy like Granderson. De Aza is getting to be expensive. Dayan is part of the problem, low OBP, low baseball IQ. He'd take off the pressure on young guys like Semien, Micah Johnson who are probably a year away.

 

If Granderson could give the Sox his career numbers, .261/ .340/ .488, be it in CF or LF, he could make a difference.

 

That isn't to say this is the only move to left to make. But trading Santiago isn't the cure all either. I'd like the sox to add another young hitter as well with a trade of a Starting pitcher. Adding a lefty bat near big league ready such as Adam Eaton from AZ, Jon Pederson from LA, or Cecchini from Boston.

[beck72]

Couldn't agree more. I understand how its hard for some to accept when you want your favorite team to win but the truth is that this rebuild has been coming for a few years now giving the aging players and weak talent in the upper minor leagues. I'm no genius but for me this was easy to see coming and completly necessary.

This board may or may not push for a rebuild. But Rick Hahn isn't. Rebuilding is playing all young guys, gutting payroll completely, trading anyone of value, esp. a guy like Sale, and going through another season like last. Hahn isn't advocating that.

 

That said, adding a vet like Curtis on a cheaper deal nearer $10 mil. who could help the sox win while adding key young guys like Avasail, Abreu, and at least one other via trade of a starting pitcher, does make sense. That would seem to fit in with Hahns vision of retooling rather than rebuilding.

[beck72]

You are one of very few voices of reason my friend. Signing Granderson to a team that's rebuilding/retooling etc is just spending money for the sake of spending money as well as just plain dumb. That money is better spent on player development than any one free agent. If this team was close to contending I would be all for it but they aren't so invest that money in the farm, future drafts and Intl signings.

 

Look at it this way. Had we already signed Granderson we could very well have missed out on Abreu ( depending on years/ money per year for Grandy). Thanks but no thanks Curtis!

There isn't unlimited amount of money to spend solely on picks and INTL signings with the cap in place.

 

With the Abreu signing, it's a question of what players to add around him and Avasail. Both righty bats. Adding guys who can hit near the top of the order, hit lefty, and aren't weak in the field are logical next steps. Plus, at a position that doesn't block a guy like Semien or Micah Johnson-who aren't likely to help until the end of 2014 if then.

 

Hahn has a plan. It's not luck that Abreu was signed before adding a free agent.

[ILMOU]

I don't understand why you can't try to win and strengthen your minor league system at the same time.

 

I can understand laying off some player because you have a prospect ready to give it a whirl at the major league level, but the Sox prospects are having problems hitting .200 in the minor leagues. There really isn't an OF that seems like he should be ready to roll this year or next.

 

This. And if I knew how to multi-quote, your previous post as well. Vast improvements/declines in various aspects of the game from one year to the next happen A LOT. Look at our team's defense in '13 vs. '12, for instance - we went from best to worst.

 

But I don't want Grandy at this stage of his career. A better, LH, catcher and a veteran lefty reliever, and I'm ready to call it an offseason. I think we may be better off waiting til mid-season for other moves, though I wouldn't mind Headley at the right trade price, if a willingness to extend before FA is expressed. Oh, and I really don't want to give up that 2nd round pick. Our last three second-round picks are Erik Johnson, Chris Beck and Tyler Danish, all of whom may be long-term fixtures in our rotation, or figure to be among our very best trade chips. A couple years of Grandy ain't worth that.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Stan Bahnsen

[BlackSox13]

The Sox are 1 year removed from being 4th in the AL in runs scored. I don't know why someone would have to be delusional to think that that kind of offense can re-appear fairly quickly with a couple of correct moves.

 

It is almost as if people who want the Sox to rebuild seem to think it's a guarantee rebuilds work over the course of a few years. Look at reality. It really isn't.

 

No rebuilds don't always work and neither does relying on the FA market. The affordable ( from the Sox perspective) FA market is weak and won't make the Sox contenders. Couple that with the Sox not having so little to offer in a trade makes putting a 14 competitive team that much more difficult.

I don't understand why you can't try to win and strengthen your minor league system at the same time.

 

I can understand laying off some player because you have a prospect ready to give it a whirl at the major league level, but the Sox prospects are having problems hitting .200 in the minor leagues. There really isn't an OF that seems like he should be ready to roll this year or next.

A weak farm is exactly why the Sox need to re-invest in the first place. I agree trying to rebuild on the fly but Grandy isn't the answer either. The Sox just aren't close snuff for Grandy to push them to the point of contention. Plus Detroit, Cleveland and Kc are much better than what Granderson would help the Sox become.

This board may or may not push for a rebuild. But Rick Hahn isn't. Rebuilding is playing all young guys, gutting payroll completely, trading anyone of value, esp. a guy like Sale, and going through another season like last. Hahn isn't advocating that.

 

That said, adding a vet like Curtis on a cheaper deal nearer $10 mil. who could help the sox win while adding key young guys like Avasail, Abreu, and at least one other via trade of a starting pitcher, does make sense. That would seem to fit in with Hahns vision of retooling rather than rebuilding.

Really? Investing in Intl FA and a weak minor system isn't a rebuid when there isn't much talent available like you said and I agree with? Is there that big a difference between rebuilding and retooling considering the Sox current situation? Sounds more a play on words than anything else.

 

There isn't unlimited amount of money to spend solely on picks and INTL signings with the cap in place.

 

With the Abreu signing, it's a question of what players to add around him and Avasail. Both righty bats. Adding guys who can hit near the top of the order, hit lefty, and aren't weak in the field are logical next steps. Plus, at a position that doesn't block a guy like Semien or Micah Johnson-who aren't likely to help until the end of 2014 if then.

 

Hahn has a plan. It's not luck that Abreu was signed before adding a free agent.

I agree with what you say but Avi is still developing and Abreu is a huge unknown at this point so we really are rebuilding/ retooling aren't we? Not like these guys are proven or anything even tho I do like promising future these guys bring to the Sox.

[beck72]

No rebuilds don't always work and neither does relying on the FA market. The affordable ( from the Sox perspective) FA market is weak and won't make the Sox contenders. Couple that with the Sox not having so little to offer in a trade makes putting a 14 competitive team that much more difficult.

 

A weak farm is exactly why the Sox need to re-invest in the first place. I agree trying to rebuild on the fly but Grandy isn't the answer either. The Sox just aren't close snuff for Grandy to push them to the point of contention. Plus Detroit, Cleveland and Kc are much better than what Granderson would help the Sox become.

 

Really? Investing in Intl FA and a weak minor system isn't a rebuid when there isn't much talent available like you said and I agree with? Is there that big a difference between rebuilding and retooling considering the Sox current situation? Sounds more a play on words than anything else.

 

 

I agree with what you say but Avi is still developing and Abreu is a huge unknown at this point so we really are rebuilding/ retooling aren't we? Not like these guys are proven or anything even tho I do like promising future these guys bring to the Sox.

 

It's not a play on words. Rebuilding is trading guys like Chris Sale, Reed, Jones, Quintana for multiple pieces, gutting payroll, and going through multiple losing seasons on purpose. The Sox, based on what Hahn is saying and doing with the Abreu signing, are still trying to win next year. Most people Call that retooling. I agree the sox are still trying to win in 2014.

[BlackSox13]

It's not a play on words. Rebuilding is trading guys like Chris Sale, Reed, Jones, Quintana for multiple pieces, gutting payroll, and going through multiple losing seasons on purpose. The Sox, based on what Hahn is saying and doing with the Abreu signing, are still trying to win next year. Most people Call that retooling. I agree the sox are still trying to win in 2014.

This is where I disagree. How is trading young, cheap controlled talent rebuilding when that's the exact kind of talent you rebuild around in the first place? Trading high priced vets for young cheap talent is rebuilding, as was done years ago with the white flag trade. One more thing is Dunn and Danks are about the only high cost salaries left and if they had value you bet they would be gone, so would that still be re-tooling? I stick with its a play on words bit. If Hahn said rebuild he knows there would be less asses in the seats than currently expected. KW has tried selling this bs before with the " rebuilding on the fly" bit. Its all PR stuff,IMO. Hope I'm wrong no doubt,it just sounds too much like the same song and dance from the PR dept. I'm fine with rebuilding, just don't want smoke blown up my ass is all.

[brian310]

Isn't it supposed to be a deep draft this year? We shouldn't be signing guys who are tied to draft picks when we have chance to finally bring in a lot of talent with our high draft slot. I hope there is a good catcher around for the second or third round that can develop quickly.

[BlackSox13]

Isn't it supposed to be a deep draft this year? We shouldn't be signing guys who are tied to draft picks when we have chance to finally bring in a lot of talent with our high draft slot. I hope there is a good catcher around for the second or third round that can develop quickly.

Yes, its supposed to the deepest draft since 2011 so let's take advantage of it.