Sox to Make Hard Push for Granderson

[soxsoxsoxsox]

should of drafted him

 

 

[southsider2k5]

should of drafted him

 

That comes with the big assumption that he would have developed on the same path in the Sox system.

[TheBigHurtIsBack]

What the hell? Since when was everyone around here anti-ADA? Is this place manic these days?

[southsider2k5]

What the hell? Since when was everyone around here anti-ADA? Is this place manic these days?

 

To be fair, if you actually watched him this year, he was one of the worst defenders and baserunners in all of baseball this year.

[Balta1701]

To be fair, if you actually watched him this year, he was one of the worst defenders and baserunners in all of baseball this year.

Plus he got off to the same terrible start the rest of the team did.

[Vance Law]

To be fair, if you actually watched him this year, he was one of the worst defenders and baserunners in all of baseball this year.

 

I would say, more accurately, that he made a number of errors both in the field and on the base paths and that fact seems to have a disproportionate emotional impact on many fans. He was not one of the worst baserunners in baseball. Fangraphs has him as our 3rd best baserunner after Rios and Ramirez. Fangraphs has him as the 25th most valuable baserunner in MLB for 2013. Fans don't get actively angry at Adam Dunn or Paul Konerko for being terribly slow since they can't help it. They can't help it, but it does make Paul Konerko the worst baserunner in baseball, and Adam Dunn the 16th worst.

 

He did have a bad year defensively- made a lot of errors. Players have good and bad years defensively. All of that plus his offense adds up to 2.2 WAR- 3rd best on the team- and all for the bargain basement price of about $2 million.

[caulfield12]

The problem is that we need leadership from DeAza....he's at that age where he's going to be a role model to players like Viciedo and Avisail Garcia, and it doesn't matter how much money he's earning, if he continues to make as many mistakes on the basepaths and in the field, it's not going to be good for the organization and developing the right tendencies in our younger players.

 

Of course, that's not all on DeAza, it's also on the coaching staff as well.

Edited October 14, 2013 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

I would say, more accurately, that he made a number of errors both in the field and on the base paths and that fact seems to have a disproportionate emotional impact on many fans. He was not one of the worst baserunners in baseball. Fangraphs has him as our 3rd best baserunner after Rios and Ramirez. Fangraphs has him as the 25th most valuable baserunner in MLB for 2013. Fans don't get actively angry at Adam Dunn or Paul Konerko for being terribly slow since they can't help it. They can't help it, but it does make Paul Konerko the worst baserunner in baseball, and Adam Dunn the 16th worst.

 

He did have a bad year defensively- made a lot of errors. Players have good and bad years defensively. All of that plus his offense adds up to 2.2 WAR- 3rd best on the team- and all for the bargain basement price of about $2 million.

 

Any number that reflects upon his baserunning in a positive note is a garbage stat.

[oldsox]

I would say, more accurately, that he made a number of errors both in the field and on the base paths and that fact seems to have a disproportionate emotional impact on many fans. He was not one of the worst baserunners in baseball. Fangraphs has him as our 3rd best baserunner after Rios and Ramirez. Fangraphs has him as the 25th most valuable baserunner in MLB for 2013. Fans don't get actively angry at Adam Dunn or Paul Konerko for being terribly slow since they can't help it. They can't help it, but it does make Paul Konerko the worst baserunner in baseball, and Adam Dunn the 16th worst.

 

He did have a bad year defensively- made a lot of errors. Players have good and bad years defensively. All of that plus his offense adds up to 2.2 WAR- 3rd best on the team- and all for the bargain basement price of about $2 million.

Correct. I remember one year in Robin's career where he stunk it up defensively, then went back to being good on defense the next year. De Aza needs to stay in left more that last season, but then we have Viciedo there, so Robin has a dilemma.

[southsider2k5]

Any number that reflects upon his baserunning in a positive note is a garbage stat.

 

Unfortunately no one has an outs on bases stat that is sortable. BR has it for individual players. De Aza had 19 outs on the bases this year (OOB+CS) vs the 20 SBs he had. 11 of those were baserunning mistakes that were not deemed as CS's. For contrast Ramirez in his 30 steals, had 15 outs on the bases this year, 6 of which weren't CS's. Alex Rios had 5 OOB this year that weren't CS's. Yes De Aza had as many outs on the bases (not including CS's) as two of the biggest idiots in baseball combined in Rios and Ramirez.

 

Again, any baserunning stat that tells me De Aza was a good baserunner has problems.

[Rowand44]

Unfortunately no one has an outs on bases stat that is sortable. BR has it for individual players. De Aza had 19 outs on the bases this year (OOB+CS) vs the 20 SBs he had. 11 of those were baserunning mistakes that were not deemed as CS's. For contrast Ramirez in his 30 steals, had 15 outs on the bases this year, 6 of which weren't CS's. Alex Rios had 5 OOB this year that weren't CS's. Yes De Aza had as many outs on the bases (not including CS's) as two of the biggest idiots in baseball combined in Rios and Ramirez.

 

Again, any baserunning stat that tells me De Aza was a good baserunner has problems.

I'm sure the stat that was posted takes all that into consideration.

[Balta1701]

Correct. I remember one year in Robin's career where he stunk it up defensively, then went back to being good on defense the next year. De Aza needs to stay in left more that last season, but then we have Viciedo there, so Robin has a dilemma.

The one thing that keeps driving me nuts is that it wasn't just one guy...it was the entire team that stunk it up defensively last year...after being pretty darn great the previous year.

[Eminor3rd]

To be fair, if you actually watched him this year, he was one of the worst defenders and baserunners in all of baseball this year.

 

This is just not true at all.

[southsider2k5]

This is just not true at all.

 

Between the bad reads and horrible and regular baserunning mistakes, I feel pretty good about those statements, especially the baserunning. He killed more innings that I can remember seeing a Sox player do ever.

[Jake]

I would say, more accurately, that he made a number of errors both in the field and on the base paths and that fact seems to have a disproportionate emotional impact on many fans. He was not one of the worst baserunners in baseball. Fangraphs has him as our 3rd best baserunner after Rios and Ramirez. Fangraphs has him as the 25th most valuable baserunner in MLB for 2013. Fans don't get actively angry at Adam Dunn or Paul Konerko for being terribly slow since they can't help it. They can't help it, but it does make Paul Konerko the worst baserunner in baseball, and Adam Dunn the 16th worst.

 

He did have a bad year defensively- made a lot of errors. Players have good and bad years defensively. All of that plus his offense adds up to 2.2 WAR- 3rd best on the team- and all for the bargain basement price of about $2 million.

 

I agree with your general sentiment, but I wouldn't give us so much credit as to think we didn't resent Dunn and Konerko for being slow, lol

 

 

Unfortunately no one has an outs on bases stat that is sortable. BR has it for individual players. De Aza had 19 outs on the bases this year (OOB+CS) vs the 20 SBs he had. 11 of those were baserunning mistakes that were not deemed as CS's. For contrast Ramirez in his 30 steals, had 15 outs on the bases this year, 6 of which weren't CS's. Alex Rios had 5 OOB this year that weren't CS's. Yes De Aza had as many outs on the bases (not including CS's) as two of the biggest idiots in baseball combined in Rios and Ramirez.

 

Again, any baserunning stat that tells me De Aza was a good baserunner has problems.

 

The truth is that he is fast and, while often losing bases by being stupid, also often picked up bases by being fast and aggressive. I'm not going to say he's an amazing baserunner, but just being fast and aggressive in today's game will make you a good baserunner. The stat he is citing is based on the amount of bases you get compared to what is expected on a given play -- so it docked him for the bad plays and credited him when he did well

 

[Dick Allen]

Between the bad reads and horrible and regular baserunning mistakes, I feel pretty good about those statements, especially the baserunning. He killed more innings that I can remember seeing a Sox player do ever.

I'm a De Aza fan, but I agree with this. The guys who insist the advance metrics showing he wasn't as bad as you think will use the fact he did steal 20 bases and used his speed for extra bases more often than the average runner, which may be true, but it doesn't offset the fact that his baserunning and fielding, I have never seen an OF have a tougher time picking up a ball, were horrible. And I agree, he killed several innings with basepath blunders you don't see from 12 year olds.

 

As for Granderson, it appears the Yankees are going to give him a qualifying offer, which IMO, would probably end any chance he plays for the White Sox.

[southsider2k5]

Between the bad reads and horrible and regular baserunning mistakes, I feel pretty good about those statements, especially the baserunning. He killed more innings that I can remember seeing a Sox player do ever.

 

Just for reference sake, I have been picking through current and former Sox players to see if I can find someone who managed to match or beat De Aza's season of stupidity. So far I have run through Pods, Rios, Alexei, Guillen, Rudy Law, and Claudell Washington. Only one guy has hit 11 times making outs on the basepaths like De Aza did this year. I'll let you guess as to who it was.

[witesoxfan]

Between the bad reads and horrible and regular baserunning mistakes, I feel pretty good about those statements, especially the baserunning. He killed more innings that I can remember seeing a Sox player do ever.

 

I think the disconnect here is how we define bad base runner. You are definining bad base runner as "stupid base runner" while others define it as "ineffective base runner." Konerko was terrible on the bases this year, but that's entirely because he's slow. De Aza actually produced positive value on the bases this year, but I'm not going to disagree that he made a lot of mistakes.

[southsider2k5]

Just for reference sake, I have been picking through current and former Sox players to see if I can find someone who managed to match or beat De Aza's season of stupidity. So far I have run through Pods, Rios, Alexei, Guillen, Rudy Law, and Claudell Washington. Only one guy has hit 11 times making outs on the basepaths like De Aza did this year. I'll let you guess as to who it was.

 

Out of the top 10 base stealers this year (Ellsbury, Eric Young, Rajai Davis, Jean Segura, Andrus, Sterling Marte, Carlos Gomez, Everth Cabrera, and Leonys Martín) none have even a single season of 11 Outs on the Bases. Out of all of them there was one season of 10 in Carlos Gomez.

 

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

Just for reference sake, I have been picking through current and former Sox players to see if I can find someone who managed to match or beat De Aza's season of stupidity. So far I have run through Pods, Rios, Alexei, Guillen, Rudy Law, and Claudell Washington. Only one guy has hit 11 times making outs on the basepaths like De Aza did this year. I'll let you guess as to who it was.

I know that Chet Lemon ran into a lot of outs, but I'm gonna go with Mike Caruso.

 

BTW I'm in the camp of "If De Aza is one of your regulars, you're real bad."

[Eminor3rd]

Between the bad reads and horrible and regular baserunning mistakes, I feel pretty good about those statements, especially the baserunning. He killed more innings that I can remember seeing a Sox player do ever.

 

Like 10? What about all the things he did right?

 

EDIT: Ok, 11.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Eminor3rd

[southsider2k5]

I know that Chet Lemon ran into a lot of outs, but I'm gonna go with Mike Caruso.

 

BTW I'm in the camp of "If De Aza is one of your regulars, you're real bad."

 

Chet Lemon for the wins. Seasons of 16, 15, 12, 12, and 11. Caruso's max was 6.

[southsider2k5]

Chet Lemon for the wins. Seasons of 16, 15, 12, 12, and 11. Caruso's max was 6.

 

BTW, the answer if people want to know out of the original group I checked was

Ozzie Guillen

[TaylorStSox]

ADA is generally just a stupid baseball player. He makes bad situational decisions offensively and defensively all the time.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

Chet Lemon for the wins. Seasons of 16, 15, 12, 12, and 11. Caruso's max was 6.

So De Aza is Chet Lemon without the talent.