southsider2k5 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 9, 2013 -> 12:33 PM) Really, if you look at the stats, this isn't true. They put him in LF in 2012 and he was just a small tick below "average" out there. Both UZR and Defensive Runs Saved agree on this, UZR he was at -3 with 0 being average, DRS he was actually above average in 2012. The problem is he was significantly worse in both metrics in 2013. In 2012, he covered enough ground and was reliable enough of a fielder that when you factor in his arm, he was just fine in 2012. The problem is he suffered from the same 2013 disease as the rest of the team and got worse. 2012 he was serviceable. 2013 he was terrible. Just awful. He couldn't track a ball over his head or against the wall to save his life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 9, 2013 -> 01:04 PM) If only they hit him a few more fungos in spring training. He would have been hellish. [smack, smack, smack, smack] [dead horse] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 9, 2013 -> 10:33 AM) Really, if you look at the stats, this isn't true. They put him in LF in 2012 and he was just a small tick below "average" out there. Both UZR and Defensive Runs Saved agree on this, UZR he was at -3 with 0 being average, DRS he was actually above average in 2012. The problem is he was significantly worse in both metrics in 2013. In 2012, he covered enough ground and was reliable enough of a fielder that when you factor in his arm, he was just fine in 2012. The problem is he suffered from the same 2013 disease as the rest of the team and got worse. His arm didn't come into play as much in 2013 because baserunners knew not to run on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Oct 9, 2013 -> 05:11 PM) His arm didn't come into play as much in 2013 because baserunners knew not to run on him. I'd be surprised if the metrics didn't take that into account these days. It's worth more if he gets the out but if guys take fewer bases on balls hit to him than to other OF's that is a signal which should show up. That said, it was obvious to everyone he did a worse job and made more mistakes out there in 2013. Heck, in the most basic stat he went from 2 errors in 2012 to 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Does anyone believe Viciedo would have played so poorly from a defensive standpoint if he was on the Pittsburgh Pirates and had his head in every batter/at-bat because of the strategic positioning system they use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Tank and Beckham will both have breakout years in 2014. Book it. With Dayan, this was just his second season. We saw a sophomore slump mixed with injuries and exploited weaknesses. He did start making adjustments near the end of play as his health returned. Beckham was looking like an entirely different player until injuries also derailed him. This organization will not give up on these two this year. They're both going no where in 2014. Look for them to break loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 QUOTE (hi8is @ Oct 9, 2013 -> 11:49 PM) Tank and Beckham will both have breakout years in 2014. Book it. With Dayan, this was just his second season. We saw a sophomore slump mixed with injuries and exploited weaknesses. He did start making adjustments near the end of play as his health returned. Beckham was looking like an entirely different player until injuries also derailed him. This organization will not give up on these two this year. They're both going no where in 2014. Look for them to break loose. Beckham wasn't hurt towards the end of the year, and in August and September he hit .227/.304/.335/.639. With Semien knocking on the door and guys like Carlos Sanchez, Leury Garcia, and Micah Johnson closing in, you have to ask whether or not it's worth it to spend $5+ million on Beckham next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 10, 2013 -> 08:38 AM) Beckham wasn't hurt towards the end of the year, and in August and September he hit .227/.304/.335/.639. With Semien knocking on the door and guys like Carlos Sanchez, Leury Garcia, and Micah Johnson closing in, you have to ask whether or not it's worth it to spend $5+ million on Beckham next year. Beckham was hurt the last 2 months. He was playing with a bad quad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 10, 2013 -> 08:41 AM) Beckham was hurt the last 2 months. He was playing with a bad quad. Then he should not have been playing. If it's so bad that it drops his average 80 points, he's too hurt to play. I apologize, I'd lost quite a bit of interest towards the end for obvious reasons. However, hearing the sheer number of players that were playing hurt really does make me question Ventura's accountability and ability to make a stand and say "You can't play." I understand that guys don't want to sit, but you are hurting the team playing hurt whether in contention or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 10, 2013 -> 08:51 AM) Then he should not have been playing. If it's so bad that it drops his average 80 points, he's too hurt to play. I apologize, I'd lost quite a bit of interest towards the end for obvious reasons. However, hearing the sheer number of players that were playing hurt really does make me question Ventura's accountability and ability to make a stand and say "You can't play." I understand that guys don't want to sit, but you are hurting the team playing hurt whether in contention or not. Guys play hurt all the time. He did sit out several games. It was no secret. They mentioned it several times. He was obviously limping along a lot. Professionals play, and don't worry about what it will look like on baseballreference.com. The team didn't have better options.I don't know why that is some managerial accountability problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 10, 2013 -> 08:57 AM) Guys play hurt all the time. He did sit out several games. It was no secret. They mentioned it several times. He was obviously limping along a lot. Professionals play, and don't worry about what it will look like on baseballreference.com. The team didn't have better options.I don't know why that is some managerial accountability problem. Marcus Semien was hitting the f***ing piss out of the ball in AAA. You're going to tell me they didn't have better options? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 10, 2013 -> 08:57 AM) Guys play hurt all the time. He did sit out several games. It was no secret. They mentioned it several times. He was obviously limping along a lot. Professionals play, and don't worry about what it will look like on baseballreference.com. The team didn't have better options.I don't know why that is some managerial accountability problem. There's always an excuse for him. At some point everyone is just going to have to realize he's not a good hitter and stop with the excuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 10, 2013 -> 09:57 AM) Guys play hurt all the time. He did sit out several games. It was no secret. They mentioned it several times. He was obviously limping along a lot. Professionals play, and don't worry about what it will look like on baseballreference.com. The team didn't have better options.I don't know why that is some managerial accountability problem. Beckham played 25 games in June, 20 games in July, 29 games in August (27 starts), and 22 games in Sept. He played more in those last 2 months than he did in July. July has the AS break for a couple games true, but if that's giving him "extra time off", then I don't know when he ever had time on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 10, 2013 -> 12:27 PM) Beckham played 25 games in June, 20 games in July, 29 games in August (27 starts), and 22 games in Sept. He played more in those last 2 months than he did in July. July has the AS break for a couple games true, but if that's giving him "extra time off", then I don't know when he ever had time on. http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseba...-to-quad-strain All right there for you. Was hitting over .300 with a .360 Obp. Power wasn't there but I thin the wrist could be at fault, and his UZR was really good. You keep pointing out his range is getting worse. The guy had a leg injury. Edited October 11, 2013 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 11, 2013 -> 10:58 AM) http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseba...-to-quad-strain All right there for you. Was hitting over .300 with a .360 Obp. Power wasn't there but I thin the wrist could be at fault, and his UZR was really good. You keep pointing out his range is getting worse. The guy had a leg injury. Then the organization should have taken a stand when it was clear it was affecting him that much and DL'd him. Someone should be blamed for Beckham sucking, and if we aren't going to blame Beckham, then I am going to blame the organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) Beckham just regressed back towards the mean, it wasn't the injury that was messing with him and there's no reason for me to think otherwise. Edited October 11, 2013 by Rowand44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Has there ever been a player in Chicago sports that has been given more excuses than Beckham? It's just bizarre. Sox fans are usually the opposite when it comes to busted prospects. He's a hall of famer. Scratch that, he's Chase Utley. Scratch that, he's Brandon Phillips. Scratch that, he can't hit for s***, but plays good D. Scratch that, his D's overrated, but he's hitting for average. Scratch that, he doesn't do anything that well, but he's hurt. Well, he does turn a good double play. I know it seems like I have a vendetta against him, but I really don't. I would love for him to succeed. It's not happening though. Enough with the excuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Oct 11, 2013 -> 06:47 PM) Beckham just regressed back towards the mean, it wasn't the injury that was messing with him and there's no reason for me to think otherwise. I'm ok with the wrist injury as an excuse for the lack of power, that one makes sense to me, but the rest I lean towards you being right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Dan Hayes @DanHayesCSN 2h John Farrell said Jose Iglesias/Jake Peavy/Avisail Garcia trade was a "great baseball trade" for all three teams. #WhiteSox #RedSox #Tigers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 15, 2013 -> 03:12 PM) Dan Hayes @DanHayesCSN 2h John Farrell said Jose Iglesias/Jake Peavy/Avisail Garcia trade was a "great baseball trade" for all three teams. #WhiteSox #RedSox #Tigers Pretty hard to disagree with that. Tigers get a fantastic defensive shortstop, Boston got the starter they needed, Sox got a good, young outfielder and a load of talented youngsters. Every team traded from a position of strength and acquired a position of weakness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 10, 2013 -> 07:04 AM) Marcus Semien was hitting the f***ing piss out of the ball in AAA. You're going to tell me they didn't have better options? AA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 01:49 AM) AA He was hitting well in AAA too, but you're right, at the time of Beckham's apparent initial injury, he was still in AA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Cool write up including some background of how the Peavy/Garcia deal happened. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/cws/white-...p;vkey=news_cws Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Oct 11, 2013 -> 07:47 PM) Has there ever been a player in Chicago sports that has been given more excuses than Beckham? It's just bizarre. Sox fans are usually the opposite when it comes to busted prospects. He's a hall of famer. Scratch that, he's Chase Utley. Scratch that, he's Brandon Phillips. Scratch that, he can't hit for s***, but plays good D. Scratch that, his D's overrated, but he's hitting for average. Scratch that, he doesn't do anything that well, but he's hurt. Well, he does turn a good double play. I know it seems like I have a vendetta against him, but I really don't. I would love for him to succeed. It's not happening though. Enough with the excuses. With Beckham, all I hoped for was about .270 with 15HR 65RBI and good D. His career average over 162 games is .249 14HR 61RBI and he improved in OPS and BA in 2013 from his previous two seasons. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/beckhgo01.shtml I really think that his power should return to past levels once his comfort level at the plate increases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.