Dodgers vs. Cardinals

[Kyyle23]

Nolasco is the right move with the win yesterday. Kershaw would have been a down 3-0 "oh s***" move

[caulfield12]

Frankly, that lineup grosses me out. As much as we want to write Puig and Abreu in for .900+ OPS's next year, they could just as easily fall off the map like Cespedes did this year. McCann is a nice hitter, but he's been injury prone as well.

 

More likely is that lineup still is in the bottom 5 in runs scored, plus the defense is going to be erratic as well.

 

I'm not saying I wouldn't take Puig. I'd love him on the White Sox. He's certainly not the end all, be all for the White Sox though.

 

 

I don't think Abreu will be that great, actually...

 

I'll put him down for 750 or 775, no better. Especially if he's in the AL.

 

 

There's no line-up out there/available that's not going to gross you out because there's no way in hell we're going to shell out the money for Ellsbury or Choo.

 

There's no quick fix, other than McCann, at catcher, and that's a very flawed quick fix at that.

 

Adding Granderson and subtracting DeAza won't do much, if anything, except up the payroll.

 

 

There aren't very many fixes at 3B, and the one most fans wanted coming into 2013, Headley (who would have cost us a bundle in terms of what's left of our farm system and pitching staff), had a terrible, fall off the map season, not unlike Cespedes.

 

You can put Kendrys Morales at 1B, Granderson in CF, and it's still going to be a 75-80 win team, probably. 83-85, tops.

 

 

As long as AGone, Ramirez and Kemp are around, Puig will have a LOT of protection in that LA line-up. That's three MVP quality players, IF IF IF healthy.

Carl Crawford in his prime was close to an MVP caliber player, and he's still an important piece. Ethier's no slouch. And AJ Ellis is a decent bat at catcher.

Edited October 15, 2013 by caulfield12

[LittleHurt05]

Why Don't the St. Louis Cardinals respect the game?

[caulfield12]

The backlash to the anti-Puig backlash, lol

 

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/carlos-beltr...-140525451.html

 

The Dodgers got back into the NLCS series with a win over the Cardinals thanks in large part to a big triple by Yasiel Puig. But it was Puig's reaction during and after the triple that once again has fans and some in baseball screaming foul (see GIFs below).

Carlos Beltran of the Cardinals, the player who fielded the ball in right field, was one player who was outspoken after the game (via ESPN.com):

 

"As a player, I just think he doesn't know [about how to act]...That's what I think. He really doesn't know. He must think that he's still playing somewhere else...He has a lot of passion, no doubt about that — great ability, great talent. I think with time, he'll learn that you've got to act with a little bit more calm."

 

This has been a common criticism of the exuberant Puig all season. But if the traditional (i.e. fun is bad) faction of baseball gets its way, it is the worst thing that could possibly happen to the sport.

 

For the first time in a while, Major League Baseball has a surge of young superstars who will attract more fans to the sport. You can make a case that 2-3 years ago, the only true superstar left in the sport, a player who even non-baseball fans reacted to, was Derek Jeter. He's in his late 30s.

 

But now baseball has guys like Puig and Bryce Harper and Mike Trout. These are the players who will resonate with young fans and young fans want to see things like this bat flip...

 

In this case, the ball wasn't a home run, so maybe it wasn't the smartest move ever. But Puig still got a triple out of the play and Major League Baseball got a highlight worth watching and talking about.

 

There was also concern that Puig over-celebrated at third base...

 

The Cardinals just gave up a big hit. The last thing they should be worried about is whether or not Puig over-celebrated a big hit in a big game.

 

Sports are supposed to be fun and if baseball is going to compete for viewers with football and basketball, it needs more Yasiel Puigs, not fewer.

 

So let's hope Puig ignores the critics and continues to have fun.

[southsider2k5]

Why Don't the St. Louis Cardinals respect the game?

 

Funny how they missed Adrian Gonzalez go nuts after his RBI single.

[Kyyle23]

Funny how they missed Adrian Gonzalez go nuts after his RBI single.

 

No, Wainwright called it Mickey Mouse nonsense

[caulfield12]

Because KYLe loves these articles...

 

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/62969376/

 

The saddest thing about this National League Championship Series is that we don't get to see Chris Carpenter pitch to Yasiel Puig. That's a matchup that could make worlds collide.

 

Chris Carpenter is perhaps the most beloved Cardinals pitcher of the last decade -- once he officially, officially retires, it's likely you'll see this on the wall of Busch Stadium -- which is funny because he's the player other team's fans just despise. He's angry all the time, he's always cursing and scowling and he's known for aiming fastballs as hitters' ribs just for the sport of it. He's an ornery old cuss. Cardinals fans adore him, but we understand why you don't.

 

 

Yasiel Puig is so much fun to watch that you want to put him in a headlock, the way you wrestle with your 10-year-old nephew just get to him to slow down already. I'm not sure there has ever been a more Yasiel Puig play than his triple on Monday off Adam Wainwright. After struggling all series, mostly because of overaggressiveness, he finally squares up a pitch and smashes it deep into right field. He jumps up and flips his bat like he just won the World Series on a walk-off and begins to strut down to first base. Of course, the ball doesn't leave the park … so he sprints for a triple anyway. The play was Peak Puig: ridiculous natural talent, boneheaded self-celebration and enough freak talent to make up for it. He is dumb, youthful exuberance personified. He thinks he will never die.

 

These two men needed to get together this series.

 

Chris Carpenter has a long history of disgust with his opponents outwardly displaying emotion, which is sort of rich coming from the guy who did this after the biggest win of his career. His career is peppered with anti-joy protests, often followed by fastballs near someone's ear. My favorite was the time he started a bench-clearing pseudo-brawl after forcing the Astros' Carlos Lee to pop out. Carpenter threw a terrific pitch that fooled Lee, who hit a weak floater to end the inning. Lee, upset with himself, slammed his bat into the ground and started cursing himself out. For reasons that perhaps only Carpenter fathoms, this infuriated Carpenter. He started screaming at Lee, which led to the benches emptying. Carpenter after the game blamed Lee for the ruckus, saying, "He's the one that caused everybody to come out, not me. I was just telling him there's no need for it."

 

Then-Cardinals manager Tony La Russa, a lightning rod for this sort of thing, said afterward, "Routinely now, hitters pop up a pitch they think they should do (something) with, and they start making noises, and that really is disrespectful to the pitcher. Most of the pitchers just turn around and ignore it. Carp doesn't. And I think Carp's in the right. I think respect should go both ways." (Sometimes, I'll confess, I have flickers of comprehension as to why people might not like the Cardinals.)

 

Carpenter is a lunatic about this stuff. It is what drives him competitively. It is what makes him him. You learn to love it. You learn to adopt it, because he's yours.

 

 

 

What would Puig make of a person like Carpenter? His teammates and, especially, his manager, keep trying to explain to him why the other team is so angry with him, and he nods like he understands, but it's not clear he does. And why should he? This is sports. This is a game in which young men in their pajamas swing a stick of wood and then run around in a circle. What's the big deal? What's everyone so worked about? You mean to tell me that I get to make tons of money running around in the grass for three hours every night, with every creature comfort I might possibly desire both on and off the field, with thousands of people cheering my name … and I'm supposed to pretend I don't enjoy it. What's wrong with you people? Puig is reasonably confused: There's a right way and a wrong way to run around and play? Well then what is the point of playing?

 

When interviewed in the dugout during Game 3, Dodgers manager Don Mattingly couldn't stop himself from laughing when talking about Puig, and he said something telling: "He's like a Little Leaguer out there." Puig is 22 years old, so he's only a few years removed from Little League … or would be, anyway, were he not already being forced to play for the Cuban National Team at 16. Considering the circumstances Puig has had in his life, the amazing thing is that he does still enjoy baseball. It is, in the most literal way possible, his escape.

 

Cardinals fans adore Chris Carpenter because he plays for their team. Dodgers fans adore Yasiel Puig because he plays for their team. They do things in the exact opposite way, but they both do it out of genuine affection for the game. Carpenter thinks it needs to be protected; Puig thinks it needs to be celebrated. Neither is necessarily wrong. But they are diametrically opposed, playing the same game.

 

They are two sides of baseball. But they are both baseball. If Chris Carpenter weren't hurt this series, we'd get to watch the old school go against the new school, two fierce competitors, out to prove the other wrong, out to defend everything they stand for. You'd be cheering for and against both of them. They're both right and they're both wrong. Baseball takes all kinds. If only we could have seen it. They might have both spontaneously combusted; they might have both just burst into flames. Baseball is a sport that takes all kinds. It takes every kind.

 

* * *

 

Email me at [email protected], follow me @williamfleitch or just shout out your window real loud, I'll hear you. Point is, let's talk.

Edited October 15, 2013 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

So glad Chris Carpenter is retiring. He is a big jerk always using the f word on the mound, etc. No one was more disrespectful in his glorifying winning ways than Carpenter disrobing on the Philly pitching mound in celebration in 2011. St. Louis wants it all one way, their way! The whole town is overbearing this time of year with boastfulness, bragging, and telling down right lies about Cardinal greatness. It is one of the most dishonest sports towns in America when it comes to their beloved Cardinals. No, you can't keep calling yourself the World Series Champions a full two years after the fact. That was disrespectful to San Francisco. So you change that to 11 Time World Series Champs. Do you see the Yankees boasting 27 times World Series Champs? What ever happened to mid-western modesty? The STL media boasts the Cardinals have the best record in baseball but once I looked, no less than six other teams has the same or a better record than the Cardinals. You write articles and leave out match-ups in post season which you lost to the Dodgers in 2010 in Divisional play. Lastly, the town refuses to acknowledge St. Louis's long time compliance and accessory in the steroid scandals of the late 1990s and 2000s. LaRussa knew and encourages steroid use when in Oakland as well as in St. Louis. And Pujols looks like he followed suit when he played here in St. Louis. People will run one out of town for writing the truth about Cardinal baseball. Much is wrong here in the best baseball town in America.

 

Funniest post of the day, under the previous article....

Edited October 15, 2013 by caulfield12

[Leonard Zelig]

Being in Missouri...every single f***ing one.

 

Go Dodgers.

You talked to every single Cardinals fan? You must have been part of the Applebee's survey team.

[Milkman delivers]

I really wish you would stop posting entire articles. You single-handedly kill my interest in reading multiple threads doing that. Just post the link like everyone else.

[southsider2k5]

Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale 3m

 

Mattingly says on #Stlcards reaction to Puig: "They should be happy he didn't run. It's more our problem, not theirs.

 

Mattingly says there shouldn't be double-standard with the #STLCards also showing excitement in big situations.

[Quin]

You talked to every single Cardinals fan? You must have been part of the Applebee's survey team.

 

You know what I mean.

 

It's all you hear from Cards fans. It's always about how great a fanbase they are and how they're always the underdog.

 

[caulfield12]

I really wish you would stop posting entire articles. You single-handedly kill my interest in reading multiple threads doing that. Just post the link like everyone else.

 

Make sure to get upset with knightni too, lol.

 

He posted a full article about Abreu, so fine, no more articles ever again if it will make you happier.

[Leonard Zelig]

You know what I mean.

 

It's all you hear from Cards fans. It's always about how great a fanbase they are and how they're always the underdog.

No, I don't. I live in St. Louis and I hear it from sports talk radio hosts, but I have heard, "The Cardinals have the best fanbase" or some equivalent come out of very few people's mouths.

[Brian]

No, I don't. I live in St. Louis and I hear it from sports talk radio hosts, but I have heard, "The Cardinals have the best fanbase" or some equivalent come out of very few people's mouths.

 

Never hear it from my relatives who are Cards fans as well.

[caulfield12]

No, I don't. I live in St. Louis and I hear it from sports talk radio hosts, but I have heard, "The Cardinals have the best fanbase" or some equivalent come out of very few people's mouths.

 

 

If it's NOT the Cardinals, then who would they possibly claim?

 

The best, most loyal, most consistent over the last 20-30-40 years, which team?

 

 

Nobody's going to say the Yankees or the Red Sox or the Cubs for that one.

 

You could possibly argue the Orioles, but the last 10-15 years has wiped that out, surely.

 

The Braves? NO way. Giants or Rangers? Nah.

 

 

Some MIGHT argue the Phillies, but I still see no way they would be picked ahead of the Cardinals for that distinction.

 

A decade ago, you could have picked the Mariners over the Cardinals, but not anymore, and I still would have gone with STL.

 

Indians, same thing.

 

 

I would go with either the Dodgers or the Cardinals, with the edge to St. Louis and with the Angels having risen into that territory until Moreno screwed everything up by making personnel decisions over there on guys like Pujols, Greinke and Josh Hamilton.

Edited October 15, 2013 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

If it's NOT the Cardinals, then who would they possibly claim?

 

The best, most loyal, most consistent over the last 20-30-40 years, which team?

 

 

Nobody's going to say the Yankees or the Red Sox or the Cubs for that one.

 

You could possibly argue the Orioles, but the last 10-15 years has wiped that out, surely.

 

The Braves? NO way. Giants or Rangers? Nah.

 

 

Some MIGHT argue the Phillies, but I still see no way they would be picked ahead of the Cardinals for that distinction.

 

A decade ago, you could have picked the Mariners over the Cardinals, but not anymore, and I still would have gone with STL.

 

Indians, same thing.

 

 

I would go with either the Dodgers or the Cardinals, with the edge to St. Louis and with the Angels having risen into that territory until Moreno screwed everything up by making personnel decisions over there on guys like Pujols, Greinke and Josh Hamilton.

 

It has to be the Cubs. They have always sold a ton of tickets even when the suck going back decades now. Red Sox would be up there as well as the Cards and Yanks.

 

[Harry Chappas]

The chicago cubs have the most loyal fans in all of sports and I do not think there is a close second.

 

When they were going good it was good for all of baseball as they draw incredibly well on the road.

[southsider2k5]

The chicago cubs have the most loyal fans in all of sports and I do not think there is a close second.

 

When they were going good it was good for all of baseball as they draw incredibly well on the road.

 

The real key is if the fans stick around when things are bad. I can't think of an organization in any sport that better qualifies for this standard than the Chicago Cubs. Anyone can be a fan when a team is winning. That is easy.

[caulfield12]

The chicago cubs have the most loyal fans in all of sports and I do not think there is a close second.

 

When they were going good it was good for all of baseball as they draw incredibly well on the road.

 

 

Not if you go back to the 1970's and most of the 1980's....until maybe 1984.

 

That's when the tide really changed and it switched over from the Sox to the Cubs...SportsVision/SportsChannel, whatever that saga. WGN took off....WTBS for the Braves, etc. Remember "America's Team" advertisements for Atlanta all those years....like the Dallas Cowboys, but...not.

 

 

If you want to go back to the most consistent franchise in terms of support in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, it HAS to be the Cardinals, and it's not really that close.

[caulfield12]

The real key is if the fans stick around when things are bad. I can't think of an organization in any sport that better qualifies for this standard than the Chicago Cubs. Anyone can be a fan when a team is winning. That is easy.

 

 

How much of this is actually driven from out-of-state fans during the summer months? The typical Des Moines grandmother with the 47 different Cubs' pins in her cutesy floppy hat?

 

If you took them out of the equation...the Wrigley Field factor, the equation changes.

 

All that time, NOBODY went to St. Louis in the old stadium because of the cookie-cutter shaped stadium with the AstroTurf.

 

It was for the team, the franchise, period.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

How much of this is actually driven from out-of-state fans during the summer months? The typical Des Moines grandmother with the 47 different Cubs' pins in her cutesy floppy hat?

 

If you took them out of the equation...the Wrigley Field factor, the equation changes.

 

All that time, NOBODY went to St. Louis in the old stadium because of the cookie-cutter shaped stadium with the AstroTurf.

 

It was for the team, the franchise, period.

 

So if you take the fans out of the fan base, there are no fans. Brilliant. If you take out every AB where Adam Dunn K'd, he'd be a really good hitter. They ARE Cub fans. Who cares why they go, they go.

[caulfield12]

So if you take the fans out of the fan base, there are no fans. Brilliant. If you take out every AB where Adam Dunn K'd, he'd be a really good hitter. They ARE Cub fans. Who cares why they go, they go.

 

 

Put Cardinals attendance from 1960 up against Cubs' attendance.

 

That includes the states of Arkansas, Kansas, Mississippi, Oklahoma, Alabama, Missouri, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Indiana and Nebraska for the Cardinals.

 

They will kill the Cubs' attendance numbers.

 

 

There's a BIG difference between a tour group that comes from Iowa once a year for the ambience/experience of Wrigley Field and the 20% of fans who consistently make up 80% of the Cardinals' fan base.

 

Those aren't pure baseball or Cubs' fans, they're mostly "Wrigley Experience/Afternoon Baseball" fans.

 

Where were they for most of the 1960's, 70's and early 80's?

Edited October 15, 2013 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

So if you take the fans out of the fan base, there are no fans. Brilliant. If you take out every AB where Adam Dunn K'd, he'd be a really good hitter. They ARE Cub fans. Who cares why they go, they go.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1609247...oyalty-rankings

 

Here's one that ranks it Yankees, Phillies, Giants, Cardinals and Braves (not that anyone rates them so highly).

 

 

The White Sox have always played second fiddle to the Cubs in the city of Chicago, but they have failed to consistently put fans in the seats even when they're playing well.

 

The last time the team was in the postseason in 2008, their average attendance was just 30,877, or a little over 75 percent capacity at U.S. Cellular Field.

 

Their attendance numbers declined to 24,271 last season (24th in baseball), and that was despite the fact the team sat in first place for most of the year.

 

 

Unscientific.

 

Five worst....

 

5. White Sox

4. Marlins

3. Mariners According to Seattle PI, a study was done that shows the Mariners have lost more fans than any U.S. sports team in the past decade, as attendance has dropped 51.4 percent over the past 10 years.

2. A's

1. Rays

 

Five best...

 

5. Red Sox

4. Giants

3. Phillies

2. Cardinals

1. Yankees

 

[Leonard Zelig]

You are all wrong. The World's Best Fans honors go to Chicago Bears fans, as documented by Richard Dent in the anthem, "Super Bowl Shuffle".