Texsox Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 04:39 PM) This is where I would love to see my customized pitching stat that factors in run support along with the pitchers numbers and defense played behind the pitcher to get an expected win total. I like the idea. Don't forget the patent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 02:58 PM) Perhaps it is the one stat that incorporates or covers that catch all we call "intangibles"? Where else would you find a stat that shows his teamates play just a little bit harder when he is on the mound? Or worse, the guy that his teammates seem to take the day off with? I could be, and mostly am, convinced that W-L is the least valuable of the stats we find on the back of a baseball card. I haven't been convinced yet that we should throw it out. Come on now, a guy standing in the batter's box has zero focus who is pitching for his team. And if he did, I guess this means they all suck for Sale and hate playing hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 So you don't buy that there can be any outside distractions when I guy is hitting? He totally locks in on that and doesn't bring any other factors up to the plate with him? Sick kid? Fight with the wife? The cute girl in the fourth row? A possible batting title? A 0-23 slump? He just gets up there like every other time at bat? he doesn't think man, Chris deserves some run support? I've read quotes from guys who at least claim otherwise. That they were pushing, trying to win one for X, Y, or Z. I think it would be an extraordinary athlete that totally blocks out everything. I mentioned it before, but let me repeat. I think they played harder for Sale, not less. His record could have been even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I don't feel like the 2013 White Sox played hard or focused for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 For example, and it's the first one I see. In comparing two starters on Colorado with similar stats, Chacin (31 starts) goes 14-10 with a 3.47 and 1.26 WHiP DeLaRose (30 starts) goes 16-6 with a 3.49 and 1.38 WHiP Why? Luck? Who would you pitch in a must win game? Better stats or better W-L? Again, as I said earlier, W-L may be the least valuable stat on the back of a baseball card, but I don't think it should be totally dismissed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Does the 2nd guy have more strikeouts or a higher number of ground balls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 07:32 PM) So you don't buy that there can be any outside distractions when I guy is hitting? He totally locks in on that and doesn't bring any other factors up to the plate with him? Sick kid? Fight with the wife? The cute girl in the fourth row? A possible batting title? A 0-23 slump? He just gets up there like every other time at bat? he doesn't think man, Chris deserves some run support? I've read quotes from guys who at least claim otherwise. That they were pushing, trying to win one for X, Y, or Z. I think it would be an extraordinary athlete that totally blocks out everything. I mentioned it before, but let me repeat. I think they played harder for Sale, not less. His record could have been even worse. They tried harder, and therefore played worse than when other pitchers were on the mound? The numbers actually disprove your point, unless playing harder and focusing more makes you worse at baseball. It doesn't add up. See ball, hit ball. Who your pitcher is doesn't make a difference, he's sitting in the dugout. The other things you are bringing up, aren't nearly the same as "who's my starting pitcher today." No batter makes a conscious decision to "try hard" based on a pitcher. I guess everyone hates Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 07:40 PM) For example, and it's the first one I see. In comparing two starters on Colorado with similar stats, Chacin (31 starts) goes 14-10 with a 3.47 and 1.26 WHiP DeLaRose (30 starts) goes 16-6 with a 3.49 and 1.38 WHiP Why? Luck? Who would you pitch in a must win game? Better stats or better W-L? Again, as I said earlier, W-L may be the least valuable stat on the back of a baseball card, but I don't think it should be totally dismissed. Yeah, absolutely, luck and chance of when runs were scored. Are you implying that the Rockies hitters tried harder when DeLaRose was on the mound? The bullpen held leads harder for him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 07:40 PM) For example, and it's the first one I see. In comparing two starters on Colorado with similar stats, Chacin (31 starts) goes 14-10 with a 3.47 and 1.26 WHiP DeLaRose (30 starts) goes 16-6 with a 3.49 and 1.38 WHiP Why? Luck? Who would you pitch in a must win game? Better stats or better W-L? Again, as I said earlier, W-L may be the least valuable stat on the back of a baseball card, but I don't think it should be totally dismissed. De La Rosa if the game is at Coors Field, Chacin if it's anywhere else. The splits speak for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 07:55 PM) They tried harder, and therefore played worse than when other pitchers were on the mound? The numbers actually disprove your point, unless playing harder and focusing more makes you worse at baseball. It doesn't add up. See ball, hit ball. Who your pitcher is doesn't make a difference, he's sitting in the dugout. The other things you are bringing up, aren't nearly the same as "who's my starting pitcher today." No batter makes a conscious decision to "try hard" based on a pitcher. I guess everyone hates Sale. Ok. Players always play with the same effort. Doesn't matter the situation. I guess I imagined guys says "we were trying to win one for X". Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I like WHIP, but I also really like K/BB to tell me about a pitcher too. Those are 100% pitcher controlled numbers and it allows for strikeout pitchers and pure control pitchers to be evaluated on similar scales. Using a K/BB ratio, Mark Buehrle is right above Anibal Sanchez, despite Sanchez striking out 2 1/2 more batters per 9 since 2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 09:40 PM) Ok. Players always play with the same effort. Doesn't matter the situation. I guess I imagined guys says "we were trying to win one for X". Sorry. The 2013 season is so screwed up that it actually makes more sense to say "the players knew when Sale was starting the next day so they partied extra hard the night before figuring they didn't need to work as hard as Chris would take care of it". Hopefully that wasn't the case, but I don't see any other team whose obvious ace is on the bottom of the league in run support and worse than anyone else on the staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 08:40 PM) Ok. Players always play with the same effort. Doesn't matter the situation. I guess I imagined guys says "we were trying to win one for X". Sorry. Well I just find it absurd that these guys weren't out there busting their ass trying to score runs while Sale was on the mound. Maybe they were TOO focused? Maybe they should screw off more and relax. It's not something you can control for, and to assume guys try harder to score for others, or they try harderer to score for 1 guy is silly. I mean, Chris Sale had like 12 outings or something were he gave up 0 or 1 run and didn't get a decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I am glad the White Sox are rid of Jake Peavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 17, 2013 -> 09:30 AM) I am glad the White Sox are rid of Jake Peavy. Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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